sgt.207
Member
I remember calling INS in the late 80's asking what they were doing with illegal aliens at the time. The person who answered the phone laughed and hung up. That was their answer at the time, here in NY.
Am I missing missing the mexican boat here? DEPUTY SHOT in Desert
- Thread starter beach elvis
- Start date
Correction: Illegal entry is a crime, although a misdemeanor--8 USC 1325. Re-entry after (formal)deportation is a felony, 8 USC 1326.
There is no immediate jump from illegal status to "citizenship". Congress can wave a magic wand to convert numbers of illegals to "lawful permanent resident status". That is NOT citizenship; it does not allow anyone to vote (unless ACORN gets involved) but confers all other rights of citizenship. Many, many "LAPRs" never do naturalize. So anyone that talks about "granting citizenship" in a one-step process is in error.
Not that things aren't bad enough as they are. I think you can use this as a litmus test as to whether the goverment has any credibility or legitimacy left. My father was a straight arrow WWII vet and Border Patrolman; I am a Vietnam veteran and retired INS SA with kids and a new grandson. I love my country but I no longer trust my government.
These really are the "times that try mens' souls". (Tom Paine is one of my few heroes.)
There is no immediate jump from illegal status to "citizenship". Congress can wave a magic wand to convert numbers of illegals to "lawful permanent resident status". That is NOT citizenship; it does not allow anyone to vote (unless ACORN gets involved) but confers all other rights of citizenship. Many, many "LAPRs" never do naturalize. So anyone that talks about "granting citizenship" in a one-step process is in error.
Not that things aren't bad enough as they are. I think you can use this as a litmus test as to whether the goverment has any credibility or legitimacy left. My father was a straight arrow WWII vet and Border Patrolman; I am a Vietnam veteran and retired INS SA with kids and a new grandson. I love my country but I no longer trust my government.
These really are the "times that try mens' souls". (Tom Paine is one of my few heroes.)
JcMack
Member
After I started working for the National Cash Register Co. in '68, I was assigned to work in Chicago's Pilsen, Little Village, and west side neighborhoods. 40 years ago it struck me as odd, that every Hispanic girl over 15, was pushing a stroller with 1 or more ninos in it. I remember mentioning the point that "this is gonna bite us in the ass" to other guys on the job. I couldn't get attention then, to that proficy. When we have old guy lunches my foresightedness is often brought up, by former fellow employees. The fact that I can't make ANY phone call for assistance on anything without hearing "press one to continue in English" shows you how far down the road we have digressed.
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bk43
Member
I am familiar with this as Irving was thrown around quite a bit here a few months ago in discussing a drug/crime/illegal infested community down the road from me. Since Plano is a former home I paid close attention to the TX part. The figure I recall is 2% of the illegals arrested by Irving being processed for return. The other 98% were Class C misdemeanors and they are not accepted or processed. This is all under a program called CAP(Criminal Alien Program) at ICE. Now, that said, this was a very spirited(read got ugly real fast) debate and one side could have been blowing smoke up somewhere. You never know.
Hopefully, the INS guy posting in this thread will chime in and educate us.
Bob
Capt Steve
US Veteran
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How do illegals get to vote? Only US citizens, felons excepted, have the right to vote. You say Mexican Americans vote democratic/liberal and this makes them legal in the eyes of the federal government??? Huh? What did W and the Republican congress do about immigration...oh that's right, absolutely nothing! Neither party has done squat about the illegal immigration problem. As I noted earlier this bill is a wake up call to Washington that if they don't act the states will.
It is all about the MONEY! Always has been and always will be. The money sent home to Mexico by illegals is the number one source of income in Mexico and until that changes, nothing changes. The Feds need to go after the problem starting with the Mexican government, the same government that encourages and aides illegal immigration. Put Mexico on notice that if they don't stem/stop the flow we have any number of economic and military solutions available...and then use them!
Great responses by all of you! I agree with just about everything I've read. Seems as though Gov. Brewer is getting ready to run for office (she was the Sec. of State (LT. Gov.) prior to ascending after "Nappy" went to DC. I wasn't sure I would vote for Brewer, but with her signing the new CCW bill, and now this, I think I just might!
Even if the courts toss this out, the people of Arizona have sent a strong message to illegals, Mexico, "Nappy", all politicos, DC, and BHO!
As I see it, we are sick and tired of the same ol' c--p, and our voices have been heard! God Bless America!
Our previous CCW legislation succeded in lower violent crime rates, the new CCW will continue that trend, and the ILLEGAL/ILLEGAL legislation may as well if it isn't tossed out.
Even if the courts toss this out, the people of Arizona have sent a strong message to illegals, Mexico, "Nappy", all politicos, DC, and BHO!
As I see it, we are sick and tired of the same ol' c--p, and our voices have been heard! God Bless America!
Our previous CCW legislation succeded in lower violent crime rates, the new CCW will continue that trend, and the ILLEGAL/ILLEGAL legislation may as well if it isn't tossed out.
Almost Forgot
J. D. Hayworth (R), a past Arizona Congressman, is running for the U. S. Senate in the primary against "amnesty McCain". J. D. is a Sheriff Joe supporter, tough on illegal immigration, and a "constitutionalist" as well!
Bye-bye John McCain. Let the people prevail, vote against the same old thing!
J. D. Hayworth (R), a past Arizona Congressman, is running for the U. S. Senate in the primary against "amnesty McCain". J. D. is a Sheriff Joe supporter, tough on illegal immigration, and a "constitutionalist" as well!
Bye-bye John McCain. Let the people prevail, vote against the same old thing!
oldRoger
US Veteran
Life is better in the USA than most of the world for most people; further people know that and aspire to come to the USA.
The USA cannot possibly offer a home to the hundreds of millions of these people who want to come. Think of the hundreds of millions in rural China and India, Africa and Indonesia, Central and South America to name a few.
In TX and AZ the illegals seem to be predominately from Mexico, here in FL they are from all over; Cen. & S. America, the Caribbean, and not a few from China. The border problem in AZ is very serious, but only one manifestation of this disaster.
Somehow we must concentrate the attention & energies of the political classes on solving this problem. This has to be a priority in the next election. Perhaps the action in AZ will help, IMO it cannot hurt.
The USA cannot possibly offer a home to the hundreds of millions of these people who want to come. Think of the hundreds of millions in rural China and India, Africa and Indonesia, Central and South America to name a few.
In TX and AZ the illegals seem to be predominately from Mexico, here in FL they are from all over; Cen. & S. America, the Caribbean, and not a few from China. The border problem in AZ is very serious, but only one manifestation of this disaster.
Somehow we must concentrate the attention & energies of the political classes on solving this problem. This has to be a priority in the next election. Perhaps the action in AZ will help, IMO it cannot hurt.
Wyatt Burp
Member
Funny how when the poll numbers tighten up McCain becomes a born again conservative. If he was twenty points ahead of Hayworth he would be his same old self denouncing this bill as racist.
2000Z-71
Member
It's been "entertaining" the last few days to watch the news media and listen to the protests over the new bill in Arizona. I am 100% behind the intent of the new law but I do worry some about it's implementation. When the enforcement sections of the statute have phrases like, "when practicable" and "reasonable suspiscion" there are going to be some gray areas and potential for abuse.
The media has been making some very broad statements and distortions concerning what's actually contained within the new law. Basically there's nothing really new to Arizona's law except that is forces local law enforcement to enforce immigration. It also prohibits and tries to prevent so called "sanctuary city" policies. For years, Phoenix police officers were forbidden to inquire about an individual's immigration status.
It has been an absolutely ridiculous situation down here for years and people are tired of it and want something done. There's no easy solution, but any solution has to focus on two key aspects; securing the border and eliminating the draw that this side of the border has. While a lot can be done to secure the border, nothing will be 100% effective. The border in the southwest is just too long, remote and has a lot of rough terrain. One of the things that can be done to eliminate the draw on this side of the border is for it to be known that there is a high probability if in this country illegally, and individual will be caught and made to suffer penalties. Currently, there is little chance of an illegal being "caught" and if they are the penalties at all they are mild.
Case in point for the above, there is currently a "person of interest" in the shooting of the Arizona rancher a few weeks ago. That "person of interest" is a Mexican national that lives in the border town on Aqua Prieta. He has been deported previously on four separate occarions, is a suspect in 20 separate burglaries in Cochise county (that's a border county for folks not familiar with Arizona geography), and has an arrest record that includes, robbery, assault ansd sexual assault. To my knowledge, this story broke this week and has only been reported in the local newspaper for Sierra Vista and received no national attention. After all, we wouldn;t want people to feel outraged and be in support of the new legislation in Arizona.
I've included a bullet point explanation of what's included within it. I'd encourage members to research and make an informed opinion rather than believe what the media is reporting on the content and intent of the new law.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizo...grationbill0420.html
Here are some nutshell bullet points:
• Prohibit state, city or council officials from limiting or restricting "the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal authority" and allow an Arizona resident to sue an official or agency that adopts or implements a policy or practice that does so. The bill contains a "loser pays" provision meant to deter frivolous lawsuits.
• Require law enforcement to make a reasonable attempt "when practicable" to determine the immigration status of a person if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is in the U.S. illegally.
• Make it a state crime to be an illegal immigrant, by creating a state charge of "willful failure to complete or carry an alien-registration document."
• Make it a crime for illegal immigrants to work or solicit work in Arizona.
• Make it a crime to pick up a day laborer for work if the vehicle impedes traffic while doing so. Make it a crime to be picked up as a day laborer if the vehicle the person gets into is impeding traffic.
• Make it a crime to conceal, harbor or shield an illegal immigrant if the person knows or recklessly disregards the immigrant's legal status. Does create a legal defense for someone providing emergency, public-safety or public-health services to illegal immigrants.
The media has been making some very broad statements and distortions concerning what's actually contained within the new law. Basically there's nothing really new to Arizona's law except that is forces local law enforcement to enforce immigration. It also prohibits and tries to prevent so called "sanctuary city" policies. For years, Phoenix police officers were forbidden to inquire about an individual's immigration status.
It has been an absolutely ridiculous situation down here for years and people are tired of it and want something done. There's no easy solution, but any solution has to focus on two key aspects; securing the border and eliminating the draw that this side of the border has. While a lot can be done to secure the border, nothing will be 100% effective. The border in the southwest is just too long, remote and has a lot of rough terrain. One of the things that can be done to eliminate the draw on this side of the border is for it to be known that there is a high probability if in this country illegally, and individual will be caught and made to suffer penalties. Currently, there is little chance of an illegal being "caught" and if they are the penalties at all they are mild.
Case in point for the above, there is currently a "person of interest" in the shooting of the Arizona rancher a few weeks ago. That "person of interest" is a Mexican national that lives in the border town on Aqua Prieta. He has been deported previously on four separate occarions, is a suspect in 20 separate burglaries in Cochise county (that's a border county for folks not familiar with Arizona geography), and has an arrest record that includes, robbery, assault ansd sexual assault. To my knowledge, this story broke this week and has only been reported in the local newspaper for Sierra Vista and received no national attention. After all, we wouldn;t want people to feel outraged and be in support of the new legislation in Arizona.
I've included a bullet point explanation of what's included within it. I'd encourage members to research and make an informed opinion rather than believe what the media is reporting on the content and intent of the new law.
http://www.azcentral.com/arizo...grationbill0420.html
Here are some nutshell bullet points:
• Prohibit state, city or council officials from limiting or restricting "the enforcement of federal immigration laws to less than the full extent permitted by federal authority" and allow an Arizona resident to sue an official or agency that adopts or implements a policy or practice that does so. The bill contains a "loser pays" provision meant to deter frivolous lawsuits.
• Require law enforcement to make a reasonable attempt "when practicable" to determine the immigration status of a person if reasonable suspicion exists that the person is in the U.S. illegally.
• Make it a state crime to be an illegal immigrant, by creating a state charge of "willful failure to complete or carry an alien-registration document."
• Make it a crime for illegal immigrants to work or solicit work in Arizona.
• Make it a crime to pick up a day laborer for work if the vehicle impedes traffic while doing so. Make it a crime to be picked up as a day laborer if the vehicle the person gets into is impeding traffic.
• Make it a crime to conceal, harbor or shield an illegal immigrant if the person knows or recklessly disregards the immigrant's legal status. Does create a legal defense for someone providing emergency, public-safety or public-health services to illegal immigrants.
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scoutsdad
Member
I just love the folks that have no business making comments and threats to my Governor and Arizona.
Rev Al Sharpton vows to protest Arizona immigration bill.
Mexican President Felipe Calderon come on Mexico you are the problem not Arizona. Those that live in glass houses...........
U.S. Representative Luis V. Gutierrez (D-IL) announced that he would travel to Phoenix, Arizona to join immigrant and Latino leaders at a rally at the State Capitol on Sunday.
Hey save the taxpayers money stay home in Illinois.
The list is long.
Rev Al Sharpton vows to protest Arizona immigration bill.
Mexican President Felipe Calderon come on Mexico you are the problem not Arizona. Those that live in glass houses...........
U.S. Representative Luis V. Gutierrez (D-IL) announced that he would travel to Phoenix, Arizona to join immigrant and Latino leaders at a rally at the State Capitol on Sunday.
Hey save the taxpayers money stay home in Illinois.
The list is long.
bobcat
US Veteran
Good for Arizona, I still work the border. The idea of wets, forgive me, that term is more PC than the other one the us old BP types use (Bat knows what it is) DEMONSTRATING for amnesty, drives me crazy. Get the buses out, turn out some BP/ICE folks, and start making mass arrests. I was in the BP in 1986 when the 1st amnesty was passed, it was passed with the promise that it was a one time event, that there would be sanctions for knowingly hiring illegals, which created the I-9 form that everyone is supposed to fill out now demonstrating they have the right to be in and work in the U.S., with the hammer of employer sanctions and work site enforcement. Then the lawyers got involved, work site enforcement was basically gutted, amnesty was determined to be a huge fraud, especially the agricultural worker program, and 3 million plus illegals got their magic "micas" that allowed them to start bringing in every family member that qualified.
Now, we're talking about a friggin "path to citizenship", Bat is right, you have to be a resident alien (green card holder) for at least a few years before you can naturalize, for upwards of 20 MILLION illegals, madre mia, have we lost our freakin' minds!!! Lee makes a good point about the US being a safety valve for Mexico, without the money the wets send home, there'd be riots in Mexico for life staples. DHS was created, and as bad as INS was considered, ICE is a freakin' joke. They sit in their offices, to tactical and cool to mess with a mere illegal, mostly because they don't have the training in Immigration law anymore, and they DON'T HAVE TO SPEAK SPANISH for their job, so they can't talk to illegals.
I've spent 28 years trying to enforce the Immigration laws, and your politicos in DC have sold this country down the river in this regard, there's no stones in DC, they all want the Hispanic vote and don't care what us, the great unwashed, think about the issue.
I'm not a racist, my 1st wife was from Mexico, but she came here legally, and my kids were born here, but we simply don't have the resources to support the rest of the world. If I was a poor campesino in Mexico, I'd be the 1st across the fence, and always treated the honest folks with respect, they're good people for the most part, but we simply can't take them all, and we damn sure shouldn't reward all of them that are here in an illegal status, illegal entry is a crime, overstaying a visa is a crime, smuggling is a crime, Arizona is simply going to enforce what the Fed have given up on. Good for them, and good luck, we all need it.
Take care...
Now, we're talking about a friggin "path to citizenship", Bat is right, you have to be a resident alien (green card holder) for at least a few years before you can naturalize, for upwards of 20 MILLION illegals, madre mia, have we lost our freakin' minds!!! Lee makes a good point about the US being a safety valve for Mexico, without the money the wets send home, there'd be riots in Mexico for life staples. DHS was created, and as bad as INS was considered, ICE is a freakin' joke. They sit in their offices, to tactical and cool to mess with a mere illegal, mostly because they don't have the training in Immigration law anymore, and they DON'T HAVE TO SPEAK SPANISH for their job, so they can't talk to illegals.
I've spent 28 years trying to enforce the Immigration laws, and your politicos in DC have sold this country down the river in this regard, there's no stones in DC, they all want the Hispanic vote and don't care what us, the great unwashed, think about the issue.
I'm not a racist, my 1st wife was from Mexico, but she came here legally, and my kids were born here, but we simply don't have the resources to support the rest of the world. If I was a poor campesino in Mexico, I'd be the 1st across the fence, and always treated the honest folks with respect, they're good people for the most part, but we simply can't take them all, and we damn sure shouldn't reward all of them that are here in an illegal status, illegal entry is a crime, overstaying a visa is a crime, smuggling is a crime, Arizona is simply going to enforce what the Fed have given up on. Good for them, and good luck, we all need it.
Take care...
venomballistics
Member
it certainly causes some divides in the nation.
The fed wont touch it. States are strong armed to keep their hands off of it. the cancer will just grow till it either kills the nation or it is treated.
about the only treatment at this point on is genocide. the question is ... who'll be the ones its administered to?
The numeric strengths are getting too close to equal not to wonder a bit
The fed wont touch it. States are strong armed to keep their hands off of it. the cancer will just grow till it either kills the nation or it is treated.
about the only treatment at this point on is genocide. the question is ... who'll be the ones its administered to?
The numeric strengths are getting too close to equal not to wonder a bit
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Guys-this is one of the best discussions on any topic that I have seen on this board-some very good points brought out that really keep the discussion going.
FlYFiShErMaN
US Veteran
Its not going to make any difference. The administration is just going to approve amnesty for all of the illegals in our country and make this a one party nation.
DeathGrip
US Veteran
jrm53
Member
If the IDIOTS in DC dont fix this I predict that pretty soon those folks in Arizona are going to handle it the way they did in the late 1800's and it wont take to long before they will cross in Ca. or N.M. ot Tx. but not Az. Jeff
