CAJUNLAWYER
Member
Very well put. Very well put indeed.
Am I missing missing the mexican boat here? DEPUTY SHOT in Desert
- Thread starter beach elvis
- Start date
Very well put. Very well put indeed.
scoutsdad
Member
Border Patrol already does just this. Because it makes illegal entry just that illegal, that makes it criminal activity.
JcMack
Member
At first glance the approach smacks of Gestapo like tactics. Anyone caught however, will not wind up in a labor camp, but be deported. Whats wrong with that?
george minze
Member
Amen! The problem is one of convenience and profit, and political power.....I loved the quote about the problem is on the Patomic not the Rio Grande!
bk43
Member
I'm thinking 3p today max for this one and the doctored Iraq video thread.IBTL-----------
Bob
oldRoger
US Veteran
If all sources of employment for illegals were somehow eliminated, meaning not even the possibility of yard work etc.; and if all government and individual aid was eliminated, meaning no hospitalization, no food from the local church folks, etc.; and if birth to an illegal mother did not entail automatic citizenship; if all of those very politically controversial things came to pass and lasted through a couple of administrations I would hope that the desire to immigrate would at least abate.
Of course the desire to smuggle every kind of contraband including criminals across the border would still be there.
Gentlemen we have a border problem. Eliminating the desire to come here is not going to happen unless BHO is able turn our country into another Mexico. As it is and I certainly hope remains, this is the best country in the world for the average man/women/child to live. Literally hundreds of millions of people want to be here.
We either stop them at the border or let them take over. Meantime the folks in AZ are on the front line and think they are losing the war through indifference on the Federal Gov's part.
If someone has a better suggestion for the embattled citizens of the border states, I have not yet heard what it might be.
Of course the desire to smuggle every kind of contraband including criminals across the border would still be there.
Gentlemen we have a border problem. Eliminating the desire to come here is not going to happen unless BHO is able turn our country into another Mexico. As it is and I certainly hope remains, this is the best country in the world for the average man/women/child to live. Literally hundreds of millions of people want to be here.
We either stop them at the border or let them take over. Meantime the folks in AZ are on the front line and think they are losing the war through indifference on the Federal Gov's part.
If someone has a better suggestion for the embattled citizens of the border states, I have not yet heard what it might be.
This legislation is perhaps best judged by its organized opposition, comprised mostly of the lunatic fringe left, religious leaders whose "flocks" consist of large percentages of illegals, and apologists for illegal immigration posing as "rights" advocates. The feds have only practiced catch-and-release enforcement, temporarily incarcerating illegals, then busing or flying them back, usually to Mexico, from where they return here again, often within a few days.
The bill requires cops to ascertain the immigration status of suspected illegals (heretofore, most municipalities had policies of pointedly ignoring immigration status) upon reasonable suspicion --- same standard as any other inquiry into possibly illegal activity ---- and makes it a state crime to be in the state illegally. The opposition has played the "race card" for all it's worth, but that's just bogus.
When someone pulled over for a traffic violation can't produce a driver's license, vehicle registration, proof of insurance, any other ID, and can't conduct the interview in English, I think you can be completely color-blind and still have reasonable suspicion that you may be dealing with an illegal immigrant.
Illegal immigrants cost Arizona lots of money and aggravation, and the feds have completely abdicated responsibility for effective enforcement and immigration policy. We're acting in self-defense.
The bill requires cops to ascertain the immigration status of suspected illegals (heretofore, most municipalities had policies of pointedly ignoring immigration status) upon reasonable suspicion --- same standard as any other inquiry into possibly illegal activity ---- and makes it a state crime to be in the state illegally. The opposition has played the "race card" for all it's worth, but that's just bogus.
When someone pulled over for a traffic violation can't produce a driver's license, vehicle registration, proof of insurance, any other ID, and can't conduct the interview in English, I think you can be completely color-blind and still have reasonable suspicion that you may be dealing with an illegal immigrant.
Illegal immigrants cost Arizona lots of money and aggravation, and the feds have completely abdicated responsibility for effective enforcement and immigration policy. We're acting in self-defense.
Wyatt Burp
Member
All administrations, regardless of parties are courting the Hispanic vote. Republicans are in fear of offending hispanics and making them run over to the Socialists, I mean the Democrats, where they are already mostly, and Democrats look at every guy wading across the Rio Grande as a new Democrat voter. That's why they want to give
em free healthcare and all the other goodies while we pay the tab. For these reasons we'll never see serious attempts to fix the problem from Washington. See what happens when one lil' ol' governor signs a bill saying it's ok to enforce current law? Obama starts threatening them in a way he'd never talk to Iran.
CH47gunner
US Veteran
In Monterey County, Salinas, & San Jose, the local, state, & feds, busted 37 known gang members (Nortenios & Surenios - rival gangs) in a huge sting for drugs, weapons, & outstanding warrants. These are the supposed "shot-callers" and include 6 women.
Of the 37 "alleged" gangsters, 22 are illegals. About half of the 37 will be tried in Federal court, the rest here. California states attorney Jerry Brown (surprising) has said good riddance to the ones that went with the feds and hopes he can separate and put to work the rest. Most will never see day-light again.
Monterey County does not actively search for illegals but, if arrested and having no documentation, will be turned over to ICE. This was a big step in the land of the liberals.
I believe the new Arizona law will also prevent some of the so called "sanctuary" policies in place, here in California.
Keep up the good work Arizona!
Bruce
Of the 37 "alleged" gangsters, 22 are illegals. About half of the 37 will be tried in Federal court, the rest here. California states attorney Jerry Brown (surprising) has said good riddance to the ones that went with the feds and hopes he can separate and put to work the rest. Most will never see day-light again.
Monterey County does not actively search for illegals but, if arrested and having no documentation, will be turned over to ICE. This was a big step in the land of the liberals.
I believe the new Arizona law will also prevent some of the so called "sanctuary" policies in place, here in California.
Keep up the good work Arizona!
Bruce
handejector
Staff member
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Nothing really hanging over our heads- except our Govt did not want Mexico to side with the Latin American communist movement when that was a viable alternative.
Nowadays, the border functions like the safety valve on a pressure cooker. It keeps Mexico from exploding.
If we ever truly close the border, and all the money they send home or the hope of a better life here is no longer available, look for big troubles in Mexico.
It will make the Somalia of the 1990's look like a resort.
Think about it.
BUFF
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
"Nowadays, the border functions like the safety valve on a pressure cooker. It keeps Mexico from exploding.
If we ever truly close the border, and all the money they send home or the hope of a better life here is no longer available, look for big troubles in Mexico.
It will make the Somalia of the 1990's look like a resort.
Think about it."
In the short term, that might be bad, but in the long term, until the people of Mexico get more honest, less corrupt government, nothing will change, and most Mexicans will have no good reasons to stay in Mexico.
Mexico needs another revolution. The sooner the safety valve triggers that explosion, the better.
If we ever truly close the border, and all the money they send home or the hope of a better life here is no longer available, look for big troubles in Mexico.
It will make the Somalia of the 1990's look like a resort.
Think about it."
In the short term, that might be bad, but in the long term, until the people of Mexico get more honest, less corrupt government, nothing will change, and most Mexicans will have no good reasons to stay in Mexico.
Mexico needs another revolution. The sooner the safety valve triggers that explosion, the better.
Beemer-mark
Member
For misdemeanor crimes the illegal has to be turned over to ICE. ICE does not prosecute, doesn't do anything. For example, while in Phoenix on vacation, I was rear ended by a car full of illegals. No plates, no insurance, no ID, no nothing. Cop wrote them a ticket and away they went to run into someone else. What would happen to you if you got in a car accident with no registration, no driver license and no insurance? Do you think you would drive away?
My daughter is a federal LEO on the east coast. No driver license, no fishing license, no ID so what. They don't speak English, or pretend not too which she stops them for a misdemeanor. She can do two things - spend most of her shift hauling them in, doing the paper work, booking them and then calling ICE. ICE then lets them go. The second thing she can do is walk away. What do you think she does.
She used to try booking them. After ICE releases them they immediately head to an immigrant advocacy group to file charges that they were abused.
The illegals know all this and play it for all it's worth.
The federal government will not enforce the law. So AZ has made it a state crime.
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bring to army back from mid-east. put them on the border to shoot anyone trying to cross illegal. armor and helos also. if the drug cartels want to start shooting, they can find out first hand what the rest of the world already knows.
Arizona Commander
Member
Reality Check
The law is reactive, if those sneaking across our border were all coming here to be law abiding, contributing members of American society and lead productive lives this would likely never have been an issue in the first place.
This is not a new problem, Arizona has been dealing with it for decades and we have repeatedly asked for assistance from Washington, whose job it is, and have received nothing but lip service.
It is Arizona's schools, hospitals, social programs and economy that are suffering, it is Arizona's citizens being robbed, raped and murdered and it is Arizona's taxpayers footing the bill for our clogged courts, jails and prisons.
This law is not just about illegal Mexicans; it is all persons here illegally. It just so happens that by geography the vast majority of those affected will be Mexican Nationals.
This is not just an Arizona problem it is an America problem. The majority of the drugs flowing into cities across America, with all of their associated ills, began their trip at an unprotected Arizona border crossing.
There was no existing Arizona state law making it illegal to be here illegally, there was only the federal law which they refuse to actively enforce. When local LE did identify someone as being here illegaly all they could do was turn them over to the feds who more often than not released them.
There is no provision in the law for LE to approach otherwise law abiding citizens and demand they present their papers, no matter what they look like. It comes into play when in the course of their duties they develop "reasonable suspicion" that an individual they are already engaged with may be in the country illegally. They are then required to determine their status in this country, if they refuse to do so they may be sued and can face civil penalties, no more sanctuary cities.
Is this new law the ideal solution, I think not.. but Arizona is at least determined to do SOMETHING. If the federal government has a better solution quit talking and roll it out. My 2 cents...SEAL THE BORDERS IMMEDIATLY, both of them, with troops if necessary. As LE comes into contact with illegal's, identify them, if they are engaged in criminal activity or previously convicted felons deport them, if not identify them and require them to initiate a process of legalization to be completed in an appropriately determined time frame at their own cost, if they do not deport them.
The law is reactive, if those sneaking across our border were all coming here to be law abiding, contributing members of American society and lead productive lives this would likely never have been an issue in the first place.
This is not a new problem, Arizona has been dealing with it for decades and we have repeatedly asked for assistance from Washington, whose job it is, and have received nothing but lip service.
It is Arizona's schools, hospitals, social programs and economy that are suffering, it is Arizona's citizens being robbed, raped and murdered and it is Arizona's taxpayers footing the bill for our clogged courts, jails and prisons.
This law is not just about illegal Mexicans; it is all persons here illegally. It just so happens that by geography the vast majority of those affected will be Mexican Nationals.
This is not just an Arizona problem it is an America problem. The majority of the drugs flowing into cities across America, with all of their associated ills, began their trip at an unprotected Arizona border crossing.
There was no existing Arizona state law making it illegal to be here illegally, there was only the federal law which they refuse to actively enforce. When local LE did identify someone as being here illegaly all they could do was turn them over to the feds who more often than not released them.
There is no provision in the law for LE to approach otherwise law abiding citizens and demand they present their papers, no matter what they look like. It comes into play when in the course of their duties they develop "reasonable suspicion" that an individual they are already engaged with may be in the country illegally. They are then required to determine their status in this country, if they refuse to do so they may be sued and can face civil penalties, no more sanctuary cities.
Is this new law the ideal solution, I think not.. but Arizona is at least determined to do SOMETHING. If the federal government has a better solution quit talking and roll it out. My 2 cents...SEAL THE BORDERS IMMEDIATLY, both of them, with troops if necessary. As LE comes into contact with illegal's, identify them, if they are engaged in criminal activity or previously convicted felons deport them, if not identify them and require them to initiate a process of legalization to be completed in an appropriately determined time frame at their own cost, if they do not deport them.
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george minze
Member
Well said..........Can't elaborate on your post one bit.....A-one
There are times I do not like my own opinions so I am not going to get upset over others disagreeing with me on this.
Drug runners need shooting. Some people need shooting and that may not be politically correct but it is factual.
People coming over here to work hard for low wages makes good workers (No, I do not employ any). There have been many instances where illegals did work that Americans would not. Recently a company re-roofed my home with about 20 Mexicans. They tore off and replaced 5900 feet of roofing in six hours. Once the job was done, I could not find a piece of trash or roofing nails on the yard. Americans would have made a three day job of it.
Now that I have said that, Unions are taking away jobs here just as the illegals are doing. They make demands for more money, more benefits and then the workers are less productive. ATT set up a plant in Mexico just to get out of Union activity. GM sent plants overseas due to excessive union demands. Foreign workers in these plants are so happy to have these jobs they actually camp out so they can start early the next day. Not long back a person could quit high school and go to work at GM making $25 per hour. They were not skilled, just union. The last I heard, counting wages and benefits a GM worker was getting right at $80 per hr for unskilled labor. Even with that type money being earned, the workers fail to show up for reasons like it was raining and I did not want to get out of bed.
How is it that an illegal can take an American workers job and it raises a storm of protests but a Union can cause jobs to be sent overseas and people blame it on the company.
I went to college for EIGHT long years to learn my profession and illegals are not going to take it over. I do not need a union, not the police union, not the UAW, Teamsters or whichever because I do my job and do it well. I am where I need to be when needed no matter the weather or other things. I was operated on for malignant cancer and in the hospital for six days with tubes in me yet I had a court trial set that I had to be in and got the dr to let me out to attend the trial. Someone had to drive me to the courthouse, push me in there in a wheel chair and I testified from the chair. American union workers would be out 12 weeks and then complain they needed more time to heal. Unions protect the employees so much that many, not all, know their union rep phone number better than they know their own.
You do not hear illegals wanting a union. They want work and willing to do it.
I am not happy about the taxpayer cost for medical attention or such but they do work.
Drug runners need shooting. Some people need shooting and that may not be politically correct but it is factual.
People coming over here to work hard for low wages makes good workers (No, I do not employ any). There have been many instances where illegals did work that Americans would not. Recently a company re-roofed my home with about 20 Mexicans. They tore off and replaced 5900 feet of roofing in six hours. Once the job was done, I could not find a piece of trash or roofing nails on the yard. Americans would have made a three day job of it.
Now that I have said that, Unions are taking away jobs here just as the illegals are doing. They make demands for more money, more benefits and then the workers are less productive. ATT set up a plant in Mexico just to get out of Union activity. GM sent plants overseas due to excessive union demands. Foreign workers in these plants are so happy to have these jobs they actually camp out so they can start early the next day. Not long back a person could quit high school and go to work at GM making $25 per hour. They were not skilled, just union. The last I heard, counting wages and benefits a GM worker was getting right at $80 per hr for unskilled labor. Even with that type money being earned, the workers fail to show up for reasons like it was raining and I did not want to get out of bed.
How is it that an illegal can take an American workers job and it raises a storm of protests but a Union can cause jobs to be sent overseas and people blame it on the company.
I went to college for EIGHT long years to learn my profession and illegals are not going to take it over. I do not need a union, not the police union, not the UAW, Teamsters or whichever because I do my job and do it well. I am where I need to be when needed no matter the weather or other things. I was operated on for malignant cancer and in the hospital for six days with tubes in me yet I had a court trial set that I had to be in and got the dr to let me out to attend the trial. Someone had to drive me to the courthouse, push me in there in a wheel chair and I testified from the chair. American union workers would be out 12 weeks and then complain they needed more time to heal. Unions protect the employees so much that many, not all, know their union rep phone number better than they know their own.
You do not hear illegals wanting a union. They want work and willing to do it.
I am not happy about the taxpayer cost for medical attention or such but they do work.
deralte
US Veteran
GO ARIZONA - I'm proud of you. Just wish my state and a lot of others would do the same thing. Maybe we could kick start the Feds. It may just end up being a states rights arguement. I'm all for getting the Feds out of a lot of things - all they know is how to talk about it or tax it.
afriqueart
Member
Land mines Dammit!
Arizona Commander
Member
Is'nt it funny that the fed wants to take over everything else but ignore securing our borders, their # 1 primary responsibility!!
ChattanoogaPhil
Member
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We get from Washington what we send there. Arizona keeps sending Amnesty McCain to Washington.
I think the recent legislation passed in Arizona will likely serve little else but to rekindle the Bush/McCain Amnesty scheme. I would not be surprised if Obama is successful in doing so. McCain will likely say he's against it if it's before this coming election... while he's giggling behind closed doors. Be prepared for a flood of friends from south of the border.
