Am I missing missing the mexican boat here? DEPUTY SHOT in Desert

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beach elvis

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Ok...waitaminnit...
Arizona makes it illegal to be illegal?
That one right there by itself has me scratching my head.
I mean, good for them but does one have to pass further legislation to make committing a crime MORE illegal?

But that's not my real quandry.

Firstly, these advocate groups say that the new laws will result in MORE CRIME. Uh...can't say I understand that.

Then, the mezcan president (quote:"Anywhere there is a mexican, that place is part of Mexico.") says that the new legislation will "effect border relations".

Lemmesee...Mexican military getting in firefights with the U.S. Border Patrol while escorting drug shipments -mind you, using government owned ordnance and vehicles- and there may be an issue with bad border relations....hmmm...

Sorry, folks, but we live in the age of the powerful moron.

And if it turns out that I am indeed off the mark here, please help me to edify myself.

I hope y'all are having a good weekend BTW.
 
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Half of me says "Yea Baby" but the other half is scared to death of the "Papers Please" mentality. I see this as a dangerous slope, notwithstanding the problem and the good intentions behind the law. But until we do something to stop the flow-like fining and putting in jail the people who hire the illegals, the problem is going to persist..
I much prefer the armed border approach.
 
CAJUNLAWYER said:
Half of me says "Yea Baby" but the other half is scared to death of the "Papers Please" mentality. I see this as a dangerous slope, notwithstanding the problem and the good intentions behind the law. But until we do something to stop the flow-like fining and putting in jail the people who hire the illegals, the problem is going to persist..
I much prefer the armed border approach.
Click to expand...

I agree with you wholeheartedly, mr. Cajun.
Seems Arizona's heart is in the right place but the actions are somewhat curious. Absolutely armed border monitoring is the best way to address the problem IMHO. I'm still, however, a bit foggy about the concept of making an already illegal action to be illegal. Is that a state-by-state thing?
 
How about setting up a armed boarder of the entire coastline of Florida? Oh I forgot, wet foot, dry foot policy. Touch the sand (or sand bar)and it's OK:rolleyes:
 
The President stated that it is a federal problem.Yet Arizona feels the need to go this on their own?Some 70% in favor.But the "squeaky wheel gets the oil".
Maybe Arizona got the feds attention.This is going to get interesting.

D.G.
 
beach elvis said:
Arizona makes it illegal to be illegal?
That one right there by itself has me scratching my head.
Click to expand...
My understanding is that it gives local police enforcement power that has been the feds. The feds aren't doing the job, crime by illegals is out of control, so the citizens of AZ are fed up. Can't say I blame them.

This one's going to be fun to watch.

Bob
 
1984 arrives a bit later than predicted.

This makes my head hurt. We are way beyond "politically correct" and well into Newspeak from George Orwell.

ex. Immigration Advocate: Someone who favors illegal activity by potentially legal immigrants because ????

The Feds considering opposing a law that is in agreement with and seeks to enforce current Federal Law?

Like Cajun, I do not want to carry my passport with me 24/7. But IMO the only way we could have effective border control is to take that duty away from the Federal government. And give the reponsibility to ?????

Going to take some aspirin now.
 
I've watched a number of interviews with advocates of the 'no immigrant is illegal' side.

They miss the point as they all talk about their 'rights'.

And they all act as if they don't have to follow the laws already on the books.

Does the border jumper have the same 'rights' as a legal citizen? Arizona would have us believe otherwise.

More power to them IMHO.
 
Howdy

Hi all,
I have friends and relatives in AZ. After listening to their stories I ended up putting a Pheonix T.V. station webpage in my favorites and I go there and check out the news about once a week.
It is hard to relate to the crime problems they have from here in MO. but I bet the public is demanding something be done (Even if it is wrong) to provide them with some kind of protection.
If I'm not mistaken Pheonix is the #2 city in the world for kidnappings. Most of those have been Mexican drug gang related but a lot more are popping up for ransom. Hit and run, armed robbery, murder, accident w/o insurance and tons of other costly acts by illegals.
I do think it is a lot like gun control. The laws are there to deal with the problems caused by those who break the law but lawbreakers are released or let off with little or no incentive to not pick up where they left off.
One heck of a lot of illegals pop up on their own. They should be dealt with in a way that would deter them from coming back.
Any of them caught in criminal activity above illegal status should get some kind of harsh minimum sentence that doubles every time they are released and found this side of the border.
I do hope something positive comes from all of this.
Mike the crab
 
advocate groups say that the new laws will result in MORE CRIME. Uh...can't say I understand that.
Click to expand...

Conventional wisdom is that illegal aliens who are the victim of a crime won't report it for fear of being discovered.
 
Legal or Illegal that is the question!

What in Gods name makes the word illegal such a problem...Bank robbery is illegal, it is a federal crime and a state crime. Illegal is what it says illegal. One has to wonder what about, illegal, don't we understand. I sort of thought it meant the same. Spelled the same, means the same...Is the same....This PC crap is getting out of hand. Who cares what the President of Mexico thinks. If he could clean up his side of the border there would be a lot less problem. I'm not for going around checking on all the Mexicans already here but those that don't work and those who it is obvious are engaged in illegal activities should be arrested, charged, sentenced before sending back then if caught again put in the joint for a minimum of 20 years. California keeps complaining but they do nothing, sort of like they say they are hopelessly broke, ok drill off shore. O' we can't do that our elite citizens wouldn't like it...Wake up America, we are on a road that has a very bad end. Maybe we need to look at ourselves and ask "How did this happen" Maybe a few more registered voters need to VOTE.
 
Not knowing the specific details here, the concept of making a new law saying we can now enforce existing law is really bewildering.
Lots of twisted "logic" pops up on this issue. If a cop sees a guy with a bale of weed on his shoulder and he's all wet from the waist down, and looks hispanic, he'll get fired for asking for a green card or I.D. When the Border Patrol beefed up the most popular places to cross, the illegals were "forced" to cross more desolate inhospitable routes, and lots of them died of thirst. Who did the illegal alien advocates blame for these deaths? The Border Patrol of course. You see, they made these poor people cross somewhere else when they cracked down on the easier places.
You know those little water oasis's people put up for the illegals to refresh themselves sneaking into this country? I was thinking obout going to them and replacing the water with salted peanuts and pretzels. But that would be mean.
This won't be a problem for long because Obama is making things so bad here we'll be sneaking over to Mexico for work and health care before long.
 
As a retired INS agent all I have to say is that ALL of the Administrations and Congresses since 1965 (if not earlier) have been criminally complicit in ignoring their responsibilities. None of them ever wanted real enforcement, ever. Democrats get all warm and fuzzy about the downtrodden and Republicans see cheap, docile labor. Nobody gave a damn about the country, justice, or the common good, and nobody was ever willing to have an honest debate. What was once a manageable law enforcement problem has now been kicked down the road to a complete sordid cluster. It makes the "gun control" debate look positively adult.

Of all the players in this the only one I have any respect for is the illegal alien fleeing his own kleptocratic government. If I were in his shoes with his prospects, I would go north too. In comparison I have nothing but contempt for our lying so-called leaders. The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. Maybe we were arresting the wrong people all along...

The real problem was always on the Potomac, not the Rio Grande.
 
...working with the federal government to solve illegal immigration is like doing the same thing over and over while expecting a different result...
 
What does Mexico have hanging over this country's head. Is it oil,cheap labor for company's building our products or the drugs this country likes to use?

This problem with the Illegals has been going on since R Reagan and maybe before that. Not one administration has done anything to try and stop this invasion of the southern boarder. George Bush would go over to Valenti Fox's house all the time. When a bunch of Citizen's wanted to stand guard with binoculars to report illegals coming into the country the were condemned by the media as a bunch of vigilantes.

What we need is another "Black Jack Pershing" down there for a year or so.
 
My cousins in Arizona tell me the problem of illegals is totally out of control and they are afraid for their security and lives. People, my cousins are not gunners like we are , but rather a retired doctor and a retired Rn who have voluntered their time and service in third world countries and in fact anywhere they have been needed in the last 40 years. In short they are very caring people. My point is that at present, for the first time in their lives, they have bought defensive handguns and longarms and have taken and continue to take professional training in the use of same. It is terrible that our federal gov'nt has abandoned the protection of our borders and the citizens living there. I for one applaud Arizona for at least trying and if nothing else maybe it will force Washington to get off their collective asses and do what they took an oath to do.
 
Bat Guano said:
As a retired INS agent all I have to say is that ALL of the Administrations and Congresses since 1965 (if not earlier) have been criminally complicit in ignoring their responsibilities. None of them ever wanted real enforcement, ever. Democrats get all warm and fuzzy about the downtrodden and Republicans see cheap, docile labor. Nobody gave a damn about the country, justice, or the common good, and nobody was ever willing to have an honest debate. What was once a manageable law enforcement problem has now been kicked down the road to a complete sordid cluster. It makes the "gun control" debate look positively adult.

Of all the players in this the only one I have any respect for is the illegal alien fleeing his own kleptocratic government. If I were in his shoes with his prospects, I would go north too. In comparison I have nothing but contempt for our lying so-called leaders. The whole thing makes me sick to my stomach. Maybe we were arresting the wrong people all along...

The real problem was always on the Potomac, not the Rio Grande.
Click to expand...

Very well put. Very well put indeed.
 
At first glance the approach smacks of Gestapo like tactics. Anyone caught however, will not wind up in a labor camp, but be deported. Whats wrong with that?
 
Amen! The problem is one of convenience and profit, and political power.....I loved the quote about the problem is on the Patomic not the Rio Grande!
 
If all sources of employment for illegals were somehow eliminated, meaning not even the possibility of yard work etc.; and if all government and individual aid was eliminated, meaning no hospitalization, no food from the local church folks, etc.; and if birth to an illegal mother did not entail automatic citizenship; if all of those very politically controversial things came to pass and lasted through a couple of administrations I would hope that the desire to immigrate would at least abate.
Of course the desire to smuggle every kind of contraband including criminals across the border would still be there.

Gentlemen we have a border problem. Eliminating the desire to come here is not going to happen unless BHO is able turn our country into another Mexico. As it is and I certainly hope remains, this is the best country in the world for the average man/women/child to live. Literally hundreds of millions of people want to be here.

We either stop them at the border or let them take over. Meantime the folks in AZ are on the front line and think they are losing the war through indifference on the Federal Gov's part.

If someone has a better suggestion for the embattled citizens of the border states, I have not yet heard what it might be.
 
This legislation is perhaps best judged by its organized opposition, comprised mostly of the lunatic fringe left, religious leaders whose "flocks" consist of large percentages of illegals, and apologists for illegal immigration posing as "rights" advocates. The feds have only practiced catch-and-release enforcement, temporarily incarcerating illegals, then busing or flying them back, usually to Mexico, from where they return here again, often within a few days.

The bill requires cops to ascertain the immigration status of suspected illegals (heretofore, most municipalities had policies of pointedly ignoring immigration status) upon reasonable suspicion --- same standard as any other inquiry into possibly illegal activity ---- and makes it a state crime to be in the state illegally. The opposition has played the "race card" for all it's worth, but that's just bogus.

When someone pulled over for a traffic violation can't produce a driver's license, vehicle registration, proof of insurance, any other ID, and can't conduct the interview in English, I think you can be completely color-blind and still have reasonable suspicion that you may be dealing with an illegal immigrant.

Illegal immigrants cost Arizona lots of money and aggravation, and the feds have completely abdicated responsibility for effective enforcement and immigration policy. We're acting in self-defense.
 
Damn Yankee said:
What does Mexico have hanging over this country's head. Is it oil,cheap labor for company's building our products or the drugs this country likes to use?

This problem with the Illegals has been going on since R Reagan and maybe before that. Not one administration has done anything to try and stop this invasion of the southern boarder. George Bush would go over to Valenti Fox's house all the time. When a bunch of Citizen's wanted to stand guard with binoculars to report illegals coming into the country the were condemned by the media as a bunch of vigilantes.

What we need is another "Black Jack Pershing" down there for a year or so.
Click to expand...
All administrations, regardless of parties are courting the Hispanic vote. Republicans are in fear of offending hispanics and making them run over to the Socialists, I mean the Democrats, where they are already mostly, and Democrats look at every guy wading across the Rio Grande as a new Democrat voter. That's why they want to give
em free healthcare and all the other goodies while we pay the tab. For these reasons we'll never see serious attempts to fix the problem from Washington. See what happens when one lil' ol' governor signs a bill saying it's ok to enforce current law? Obama starts threatening them in a way he'd never talk to Iran.
 
In Monterey County, Salinas, & San Jose, the local, state, & feds, busted 37 known gang members (Nortenios & Surenios - rival gangs) in a huge sting for drugs, weapons, & outstanding warrants. These are the supposed "shot-callers" and include 6 women.
Of the 37 "alleged" gangsters, 22 are illegals. About half of the 37 will be tried in Federal court, the rest here. California states attorney Jerry Brown (surprising) has said good riddance to the ones that went with the feds and hopes he can separate and put to work the rest. Most will never see day-light again.
Monterey County does not actively search for illegals but, if arrested and having no documentation, will be turned over to ICE. This was a big step in the land of the liberals.
I believe the new Arizona law will also prevent some of the so called "sanctuary" policies in place, here in California.
Keep up the good work Arizona!

Bruce
 
Damn Yankee said:
What does Mexico have hanging over this country's head. Is it oil,cheap labor for company's building our products or the drugs this country likes to use?
Click to expand...

Nothing really hanging over our heads- except our Govt did not want Mexico to side with the Latin American communist movement when that was a viable alternative.

Nowadays, the border functions like the safety valve on a pressure cooker. It keeps Mexico from exploding.
If we ever truly close the border, and all the money they send home or the hope of a better life here is no longer available, look for big troubles in Mexico.
It will make the Somalia of the 1990's look like a resort.
Think about it.
 
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