Best .357 mag round

[Hoptob]

I too went with Remingtons - R357M2 (158 gr.) in 2" 640/SP101 and R357M1 (125 gr.) in longer barrels. These are proven value but I am sure other full house loads from reputable sources would work just as well. Can't really go wrong with a caliber as powerful as 357 magnum.

Mike

 

[Gress]

I vote for BB 357 158gr tactical load (19E/20).
No scientific evidence on hand, but I trust it.
Low recoil and less muzzle flash is good too.

 

[BUFF]

I carried a .357 Magnum to work daily from 1981 to 1991, usually a 6 inch Model 66. I carried the Federal 125 grain jhp most of the time, but carried the W-W 145 grain Silvertips for a while. Never had to use them on people but shot a lot of car-struck mule deer to put them down. Both would penetrate a large Rocky Mountain mule deer torso side-to-side practically always and made large exit holes on neck shots. I felt comfortable with both rounds as man-stoppers.

When I carry the .357 now days, it's stoked with 125 grain Federals. They have a tremendous track record in actual use and perform great in the gel and other media tests, too.

 

[Gress]

Buff,
Great. I respect your experience. No cone cracks with relatively light bullets and m66 I guess.
Some say that m66 only likes 158gr in magnum...
Any comments?
Thx

 

[Andy Taylor]

Originally posted by Gress:
I vote for BB 357 158gr tactical load (19E/20).
No scientific evidence on hand, but I trust it.
Low recoil and less muzzle flash is good too.

I've been thinking of trying those. What gun (read: barrel length) do you use them in?

 

[Gress]

I've been thinking of trying those. What gun (read: barrel length) do you use them in?

M66 3"
Regards.

 

[animalmother]

I use Federal 125gr JHP in my S&W PC 586 L-Comp. Remington and Winchester also make good 125gr loads.

 

[marvin knox]

I carry a short barrel (340m&p). The round that I've settled on is the DPX in 125gr. I doesn't kick too hard in the little gun. It gives FBI type penetration even at the low speeds of the snub barrel. It even gives a little penetration margin for error.

Once you've got a bullet that will hold together, mushromm and still penetrate adequately - a bunch more speed is foolish IMHO. It does nothing but make you shoot more poorly as far as repeat shots go and it might even overpenetrate (itself something to be avoided right up there with not enough penetration).

Speed is NOT king regardless of what some people say. Good shooting with a round that will penetrate well into the vitals from most angles while expanding - all without recoiling you to death as well as hitting the perp is "KING". Find that round and practice, practice, practice.

 

[BUFF]

Originally posted by Gress:

"Buff... No cone cracks with relatively light bullets and m66 I guess.
Some say that m66 only likes 158gr in magnum...
Any comments?"

I know that the reputation of the K frame S&W .357 Magnums and 125 grain Magnum ammunition is that, by shooting the ammo in the K frame, one is putting the forcing cone at great risk. I don't doubt that some guns have broken.

I do KNOW first-hand that I have one Model 66 that I have shot at least 2,500 rounds of factory Federal 125 grain Mags through. I have another probably that many handloads using 125 grain jacketed bullets and either W-296 or H-2400 in full power loadings. It's forcing cone is intact. I have a fair amount of 125 grainers through three other M-66's. They are fine.

A gunsmith friend of long acquaintence broke the forcing cone on a Model 19 of his back in the mid-to-late 1970's, but he thought he had about 25,000 (yes, TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND!!!) rounds of all kinds through it by then.

I used to shoot a lot of it. I still would if I still carried a K frame Magnum very often.

The only handgun forcing cone I have personally broken was on an early, but NIB Colt Python. It broke with the first or second box of Federal 158 grain .357's I shot through it. Neither the gun or that ammo have a reputation for fragility.

Yes, there is some risk of damage. I believe the risk is real, but I also believe the risk is small.

I think the risk is worthwhile if you carry a .357 for serious, until something better for anti-personel use comes along.

 

[Gress]

Originally posted by BUFF:
A gunsmith friend of long acquaintence broke the forcing cone on a Model 19 of his back in the mid-to-late 1970's, but he thought he had about 25,000 (yes, TWENTY-FIVE THOUSAND!!!) rounds of all kinds through it by then.

Thanks. Sounds like I have some work to do to break it

On a serious note if it happens it most probably will happen at a range rather than in real life situation. So seems like nothing wrong with 125gr.

 

[flop-shank]

Originally posted by marvin knox:
Speed is NOT king regardless of what some people say. Good shooting with a round that will penetrate well into the vitals from most angles while expanding - all without recoiling you to death as well as hitting the perp is "KING". Find that round and practice, practice, practice.

High velocity is useful if the bullet is designed to take advantage of it. A Remington SJHP is, the Barnes X bullet isn't. Every bullet has an upper and lower velocity limit. A bullet's design, weight and velocity must work in harmony.

It sounds like you have made an excellent choice to carry in your snubby. Speer SB .357 in mine probably yields similar results.

 

[bigt5150]

Federal 125 gr. JHP
Winchester 145 gr.Silvertip.

 

[coleman]

http://www.northwestshootersupply.com/federalfusion357mag158grammo20rds.aspx

Been meaning to try Federal Fusion.

Federal Fusion 357 Mag 158 gr ammo (20 rds)

muzzle velocity: 1240 FPS

muzzle energy: 540 foot pounds

Fusion's lethal punch comes from bonding the jacket to the core in a special process at the molecular level. This completely eliminates jacket and core separation and results in a perfectly uniform jacket, maximum weight retention for deep penetration and more energy delivered downrange. The specially designed nose of each bullet ensures superior terminal performance when that trophy of a lifetime is in your sights. Per 20.

 

[Scotter260]

What is the consensus on Remington 125 grain Golden Sabers? Everyone seems to mention Remington's "standard" 125 grain SJHP but reading through the thread I don't believe I saw any mention of the Golden Sabers.

The reason I ask is I found an extremely good deal on some a while back and don't know if I should be worried about them having issues or not. I occasionally carry a Model 65 on-duty and load it with these.

Thanks for any info,
Scott

 

[Vanilla Gorilla]

I'm not a bg fan of the Golden Sabres, but it's purely personal opinion. My experience is that they don't hold together, and don't penetrate well, because of it. I'd rather have a .357 Speer Gold Dot or .38 +P Gold Dot.

I carry .38 +P Gold Dots in my Model 27, over the Golden Sabres, because they are bonded, have proven to hold together, and penetrate well.

 

[Scotter260]

Originally posted by Vanilla Gorilla:
I'm not a bg fan of the Golden Sabres, but it's purely personal opinion. My experience is that they don't hold together, and don't penetrate well, because of it. I'd rather have a .357 Speer Gold Dot or .38 +P Gold Dot.

I carry .38 +P Gold Dots in my Model 27, over the Golden Sabres, because they are bonded, have proven to hold together, and penetrate well.

Thanks VG. I'll have to keep an eye out for decent prices on the GDs but will probably stick with the Golden Sabers for now. I'm just glad to hear there wasn't a recall or something as the price I paid was ridiculous on the Sabers.

Take care,
Scott

 

[ScottJ]

Bringing this thread back up because I'm doing some noodling about .357 defense loads these days.

Reason being is that I have recently "re-discovered" my 2.5 inch m-66 since we've found something my wife is more comfortable shooting.

Right know I've assigned it to carry duty when out fishing and/or hiking.

My standard off-the-shelf load for .357 has for years been Remington's full-house 125gr R357M1. I've fired many hundreds through the years. Mostly through my little SP101. I selected this round years ago due to its stopping power reputation.

It was in the process of getting to know the 66 again (I've owned it since the mid 90's and it spent most of its life riding in a car since then) that I learned of the lore about the forcing cone with the 125gr boomers. So that got me to thinking I might ought to feed it something different.

I noticed that Golden Sabers are downloaded to only 1220 fps out of a 4" barrel so I figure they will be less abusive on the 66. Bought a box (at almost $30) and sighted them in Monday evening. Very pleasant to shoot and as accurate as I'm used to (first discovered GS awhile back because I have a 1911 that loves the 230gr version).

But it has occurred to me that the 158gr R357M2 is close to the same velocity and the forcing cone lore is that 158s are better than 125s no matter the velocity. Plus I know that bonded SJHP bullet works very well from water tests with the 125gr.

What I'm wondering about now is recoil differences between the 125gr Golden Sabers and the 158gr SJHP. Anyone have experience with both?

 

[Texas1941]

Velocity is a huge factor in bullet expansion, but not the only one. Bullet construction is another. Newer bullets such as the GS or the DPX have been hyped to the point of myth, but there is a difference between them and the first generation hollow points such as the R357M1 and M2. The first generation bullets are extremely velocity sensitive. Their expansion threshold is quite high and they perform poorly at speeds below that limit. The newer bullets (I have come to think of them as Post Miami bullets) will "work" over a wider velocity range.

The first generation bullets seem to plug more easily than later designs and don't expand consistantly if they do. Again, the later bullets seem more forgiving in this respect.

As far as the two Remington SJHP loads are concerned, they are two very different cats. Expansion with the 158 gr bullet is spotty with any bbl under 6". I've done very little gel testing, because it's expensive and a world class hassle. But one of the loads I have tested was the R357M2 from a 2.5" 19. None of the bullets were recovered, all penetrating 28" of 10% gel.

Between thost two loads, I don't notice much difference in recoil, but the difference in blast is considerable. All 357s are loud, but the R357M1, like the Federal "Classic" 125 gr, is stunning to me.

For reasons cited, I don't feel the R357M2 is a suitable self defense round. Others may have different thoughts.

My 2 cents,

Charles

 

[ScottJ]

All 357s are loud, but the R357M1, like the Federal "Classic" 125 gr, is stunning to me.

Indeed. I love that load but after a few cylinders through my SP101 not only does my hand hurt but my head feels like it's been near a few flash-bangs.

I've fired it unmuffed a couple of times just to see what it was like. Would hate to have to deal with in the cab of my truck or a smallish room.

I'm going to be buying a 28-2 a friend is holding for me until I save up the money. I might reserve the R357M1s (and hundreds of handloads I have at similar velocity) for use in it and switch to the Golden Saber in the snubbies.