.44 snubs: What about the recoil

[Don K.]

lots and lots of interest in .44 snubs on the interwebs lately. I only shoot my .44 snubs DA (they are DAO) at self defense distances. I really have to work to shoot them half decently. I'm getting better, but I don't think shooting a.44 snub will ever be "easy". I have to put concentration and discipline in every shot. The least bit of sloppiness and you got a flier. Don't get me wrong, this is part of my admiration for the short barrel .44, but they can be demanding. I dryfire the snot out of them, do the coin balance etc.. I'm pretty good at holding that gun steady , but start sending 240/250 grains out of them and watch those groups open up. Mcgivern explains his upward shift and forward poke for speed shooting, is there some kind of proactive (vs. reactive) technique beyond dry firing to tame that recoil when shooting at moderate speeds? I also find that if I shoot too long, I'll start to flinch. I think that will be constant- there are only so many heavy bullet shots you can take before you wear down your recoil tolerance. Anyway, any advice or hints etc..
I have to say that yes, I am trying to replicate those tight .38 Special groups that some people shoot. I am at the point that i can get 1" groups at 5yds, and 2" groups at 7yds with 240g. wadcutter in the 800fps - 900fps range DAO out of my 2.5" Backpacker. I can cut cloverleafs with 3-4 shots and then I open up.
is it just practice/practice/practice?

 

[NE450No2]

I have seen actual films of Ed McGivern shooting. After his last shot, he was leaning into the recoil so hard he would step and some times do a little run foward.

As with any gun that is a hard kicker I would startout with lighter practice loads, and then finish u the shooting session with more powerful loads working up to what ever load I was going to carry.

Then, later I would start each session with a cylinder of two of the carry load [reloads of the same recoil level], practice with lighjter loads, then finish up with a cylinder of two of the carry load recoil level reloads.

Also something else to think about, you do not want your shots to hit that close together. The first hit makes a hole, you do not want the next rounds fired going through the same hole. Spread them out a little, make some new holes...

 

[BugEater]

44 Spl

Have you considered the 44 spl? Seems to me it would be a good SD round although admittedly, I prefer the smaller spl.

 

[Sportsterguy]

I HAD a 3" 29 and a 3" 629 and did not like shooting the revolvers with full power loads without a shooting glove on. Rubber full coverage grips helped over the Combats that draw blood on me every time I shot it with them on.

I think they are super cool looking and make a great hiking/camping gun, but you would be much better armed with a .357 K/L frame snub with 125 gr.Speer Gold Dot HP's if you are using it for a self defense weapon.

JMHO

 

[one eye joe]

That's pretty good shootin', Don K.

 

[Gunhacker]

It sounds like you're at the practical limit with what can be expected from a 2.5 inch barrel.. not only does sight radius come into play with the shorter barrels, but there is also the factor of their ability to stabilize certain weights of bullets for accuracy at longer distances.

I'd love to be able to accomplish what you're doing already.

I hope when you're dry firing the snot out of your gun you are not doing it rapidly with the DAO... that ends up with the cylinder bolt slamming against the cylinder notch wall when it stops the rotation and leads to the notch getting peened and loosening things up.

 

[snubshooter]

I assume that since the "backpacker" moniker that your weapon is scandium or some other light weight material. If so, even with those slow 800fps loads, it won't get much better. The only things you can do are the ol standbys Pachmeyers and magnaPorting.

 

[Old Navy]

I have a new 629 Custom Talo in 3" that I took off the wood finger groove combats and installed Pachmayr Decelerator grips off my 610 5" and headed to the range to see if arthritic old hands could stand the gun. From about 10 yards I put first shot dead center of the bulls eye with a aimed SA shot and second shot about 1/4" away from first shot, switched to DA and put 3 low and left from first shot. They were in about a 3" vertical line with about 3/8" separating each shot, and they were in about 30% angle bottom to top to right toward the bullseye. Round 6 was saved for large milk jug at same distance, got some water on me would you believe. I didn't use a shooting glove as this was to see how the gun would handle if it had to be used in SD in future. These were very warm hand loads in 1750 FPS range from 6.5" barrel. Love big Bertha. Those in picture are Cor-Bon 240 PD for CCW carry, but may carry my own loads and it now sports a "Plug" by Bullseye Smith.

 

[RedBerens]

What kind of grips are you using?

 

[large_orange_drink]

Sometimes you have to learn to walk before you can run. Keep your DA speed slow and deliberate until you can consistently keep a tight group at 5 yards, then do the same at 7 yards.

Don't speed up until your groups are tight and consistent...then start back at 5 yards and add a little speed, then 7 yards and repeat over and over until you find a pace you are happy with.

Speed and accuracy are two completely separate disciplines and you have to master accuracy first. Accurate, consistent and quick (in that order).

 

[4330Inroute]

I am at the point that i can get 1" groups at 5yds, and 2" groups at 7yds with 240g. wadcutter in the 800fps - 900fps range DAO out of my 2.5" Backpacker. I can cut cloverleafs with 3-4 shots and then I open up.
is it just practice/practice/practice?

That's some good shooting!

Well within acceptable 'minute of badguy' tolerances at what the experts would call 'typical gunfight ranges'.

 

[Old Navy]

What kind of grips are you using?

installed Pachmayr Decelerator grips off my 610 5"

L-O-D this was not a training session, but just a gun function test to see how it performed, while waiting on the "plug" from Bullseye Smith to arrive.

The gun will get rung out latter when it's not so hot and muggy. Hope you guys were talking to me.

Man two or three posted before I could post this, man I must be getting slow in my old age.

 

[large_orange_drink]

Sorry Old Navy I wasn't making a comment on your function test, I was offering some friendly advice that Don K. asked for in his original post.

Both of you guys are made of stronger stuff than I am to subject yourselves to what must be punishing practice sessions.

 

[cp1969]

Also something else to think about, you do not want your shots to hit that close together. The first hit makes a hole, you do not want the next rounds fired going through the same hole. Spread them out a little, make some new holes...

I don't think you'll have to worry about 'spreading them out' in an actual shooting, so for practice, if you can put them all in one hole, it's time to increase the range.

 

[Old Navy]

Sorry Old Navy I wasn't making a comment on your function test, I was offering some friendly advice that Don K. asked for in his original post.

Both of you guys are made of stronger stuff than I am to subject yourselves to what must be punishing practice sessions.

Ok that's cool either way, but sometimes I don't get it right with two little boys running around screaming and shouting, it rough on grandpa's concentration.

I will probably never shoot more then 4 cylinders full at any one time, it too expensive, too rough on hands maybe and I try not to get into areas I might have use the gun. But the first guy that tries car jack my MB will get his face blown off for sure.

 

[Don K.]

Wow, thanks for all the help everyone. Some questions have been brought up, so I'll try to answer. The Backpacker is a ported stainless 629 and I'm using the factory hogues. I have other grips that I'll run but I'm usually more comfortable with the Hogues. The Backpacker comes with Hi-viz sights and I am going to change those to a standard blade sight-no question I shoot those better. I'm not looking to be a speedshooter in any way. I'm running a 12lb rebound spring and it doesn't take much to outrun it. Sending rounds down too fast seems to ruin the enjoyment, I'd rather be as accurate and hard hitting as possible. Besides all I have is a Lee single stage and I'm lookin to wear it out lately. I dry fire purely for trigger/gun control and not speed. I would immagine that "Fast" DA pounds the guns up pretty bad. I also stop at 250G. at around 1100fps., nothing heavier. I play around with a bunch of different loads, but 240/250g. bounces around even at mousefart velocity, I got some X-Ring rubber practice bullets to practice draws and what not, and it was the strangest feeling to fire the snubs, hear a slight report, and not have that recoil. Thanks for the complements. I wonder about the limitations of these short barreled big bores. Right now I know i'm the weak link by a mile. I just can't keep that cylinder in one cloverleaf. I draw a circle using the cap of those Sharpie metal markers on copy paper for targets. most of the time i can put that first shot right in the center of that circle and the next couple almost on top of it, but then I open up. gotta work on that consistancy for sure. Thanks again to everyone and I look forward to trying out all the advice.

 

[goldenlight]

IMHO, if you own a 3" 44 magnum, in order to REALLY enjoy it, you pretty much HAVE to reload for it.

I have fired a total of 6 factory full power rounds out of my Lew Horton 3" 629-1. I don't intend to shoot ANY more.

Not because I CAN'T, but because....why would I WANT to!

I've loaded 250gr. Keith style semi wadcutters from 700FPS to 1200FPS.

The ones at 700FPS are real pussycat loads. The ones at around 1000FPS are stout, but not punishing. They develop about 550 ft. lbs. of energy.

I have loaded 240gr. JHP to the same energy level, and that's plenty 'warm' for me, from a 3" snubby 44 magnum.

FWIW, I load my Lew Horton Model 24 3" 44 Special to the same velocity, which is a SIGNIFICANT improvement over factory 44 Special loads.

At 7 yards, using this load, my groups firing double action are about 3", which I consider to be very acceptable.

Firing single action, I can shoot 1 to 1.5"" groups at 7 yards.

If I was going into bear country, I'd use full power 240gr. JSP's, and hope I didn't need them.

 

[Evil One]

It comes down to grips, practice, and some tolerance for recoil.
2 7/8" barrel, non ported, WWB 240 gr sp "hunting loads"
I went thru at least 100 rounds that day.
My big bore snubbies are my favorite handguns to shoot.
YouTube - Astra Terminator .44 magnum
All would have been torso shots if it was an advancing person.


Jim

 

[zombie44]

IMHO, if you own a 3" 44 magnum, in order to REALLY enjoy it, you pretty much HAVE to reload for it.

This is so true, I don't think I could even make it through one box of factory 44 mag. And you wouldn't have to settle for 44 specials for a softer recoil and end up with carbon rings in the cylinders since you can simply download 44 mag to 44 spcl levels quite easily.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

Sounds like you've taken almost all the steps - ported, grips that are good for you, etc. I've noticed that some folks like .44 Mags and some don't. I've also noticed that a couple of mine seem to recoil a bit more than before. I believe that hand and arm strength are major factors (after grip fit) in whether a hard-kicking gun is usable. There's a lot to be said for squeezing a grip exerciser while watching TV. Arm exercises probably help, too, and even shoulder. Just figure out how to make them fit into your daily routine without costing any time, and just keep doing them. They will probably pay off.