EPA Considering Ban on Traditional Ammunition

[Hunt200]

EPA Considering Ban on Traditional Ammunition -- ACT NOW!

Another back door attempt to ban guns. I just can't understand with all the messed up things that need fixing in this Country, these people expend so much time and money trying to pass useless laws. Can you imagine if they spent their time actually doing something that would really make a difference? Things like alternative fuels and feeding the hungry. It boggles my mind.

I guess it's time to get the word out and start calling and writing. This one is coming up fast.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Letter sent. Blue Dog Democrats should be especially concerned about this petition.


Bullseye

 

[gjamison]

letter sent, they just can't leave it alone.

 

[jrs70]

sent letters. They just don't get it. We will fight and fight.

 

[handejector]

For years I have predicted two things-

1. Exactly this type of ban on lead as a 'toxic substance'. It has subtly been going on for decades, first thru paint, then thru gasoline, and then lead solder in water pipes.
I am not saying that lead never harmed anyone in paint, gas, or solder, but I do believe the danger was "enhanced", perhaps toward this goal. Do any of you know anyone who obtained dangerous lead levels from paint, gas, or solder?
I know bullets can be made from other metals, but they get way more expensive. If new shooters can't afford to practice, eventually there are no new shooters......

2. Don't ban guns in the US.
Simply sign a UN treaty that outlaws private ownership of "military" weapons. Slide it through the Senate in a 300 page document.
I wonder how "military" weapons might be defined......

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Do any of you know anyone who obtained dangerous lead levels from paint, gas, or solder?

Lee,

Unfortunately, I do. In older homes where lead-based paint was used, it deteriorates over time, and paint chips and more importantly, lead-containing paint dust accumulates on window sills, floors, etc. Small children, whose systems are more developmentally sensitive anyway, and who spend a lot of time on the floor anyway, pick it up on their hands, and as we all know, with little kids, hands and everything else goes into their mouths. Lead poisoning -- which causes decreases in IQ and other neurotoxic effects -- results.

Even after chelation therapy, which over time removes the lead from their systems, the neurological damage and neurotoxic effects, persist.

This effects predominantly children from poor families, both white and black. When I worked at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore, there was indeed a special clinic for these kids, and we would see sometimes hundreds in a year. I had several in my caseload, including Natalya P., a charming 7 year-old.

There are simple remediation techniques, but the ultimate solution is the removal of the lead paint, an expensive process.

So, while lead paint, lead emissions from leaded gasoline, and lead shot (waterfowl) are documented and serious problems, a ban on conventional lead ammunition is a red herring. As I stated in my previous post on this subject, deer don'r eat spent lead bullets lying on the ground.

I have to run out to an appointment, but I will follow-up with some references on this. People should be aware, especially if they live in older homes where lead paint was used, that this really does constitute a public health threat and is not an invention of the anti-gun whackos.


Bullseye

 

[Andy Griffith]

Heres the main problem. These people have no scientific background and avoid the facts:

Metallic lead is relatively harmless as it cannot be absorbed by the body (unless absorbed through the use of gunpowder ). It is the lead oxides and other lead compounds that are harmful.

The biggest danger from metallic lead is dropping an ingot on your foot while casting, or having lead "rain" get you when something containing moisture gets below the surface of your pot!

The EPA is going down a bad road this time and people won't sit back and take it like they did when the waterfowl crap came down.

 

[JcMack]

If word of this gets out, will there be another run on bullets??

 

[venomballistics]

For years I have predicted two things-

1. Exactly this type of ban on lead as a 'toxic substance'. It has subtly been going on for decades, first thru paint, then thru gasoline, and then lead solder in water pipes.
I am not saying that lead never harmed anyone in paint, gas, or solder, but I do believe the danger was "enhanced", perhaps toward this goal. Do any of you know anyone who obtained dangerous lead levels from paint, gas, or solder?

Check out RoHS too Lee ...
Our electronics solder went lead free too.
Even in the manufacture of chips, lead is gone which accounts for the relatively short life span of today's electronics.
This whole tree hugger thing is getting to be too big of a burden

 

[rjroberts]

For years I have predicted two things-

1. Exactly this type of ban on lead as a 'toxic substance'. It has subtly been going on for decades, first thru paint, then thru gasoline, and then lead solder in water pipes.
I am not saying that lead never harmed anyone in paint, gas, or solder, but I do believe the danger was "enhanced", perhaps toward this goal. Do any of you know anyone who obtained dangerous lead levels from paint, gas, or solder?
I know bullets can be made from other metals, but they get way more expensive. If new shooters can't afford to practice, eventually there are no new shooters......

2. Don't ban guns in the US.
Simply sign a UN treaty that outlaws private ownership of "military" weapons. Slide it through the Senate in a 300 page document.
I wonder how "military" weapons might be defined......

Simple. Since the mini-dictators want to use the UN, they will apply certain international "norms". Many countries ban private ownership of "military calibers", usually defined as present or ever used by military. In our case, that would include 9mm and .45ACP, of course; naturally .30-06 (Surprise, hunters!); how about .30-40Krag?, AKA .30US; 5.56 and 7.62x51; but some may not realize .45-70 is called - here it comes "Government" for a reason.

 

[ohiobuckeye]

Didn't congress pass legislation to put a muzzle on the Consumer Protection Agency morons for attempting a similar ban some years ago?

 

[walnutred]

Simple. Since the mini-dictators want to use the UN, they will apply certain international "norms". Many countries ban private ownership of "military calibers", usually defined as present or ever used by military. In our case, that would include 9mm and .45ACP, of course; naturally .30-06 (Surprise, hunters!); how about .30-40Krag?, AKA .30US; 5.56 and 7.62x51; but some may not realize .45-70 is called - here it comes "Government" for a reason.

In my ammo accumulation I also have US military issue 22LR, 22 Hornet, 32 ACP, 12ga and 16 gauge. Frankly I never understood the military purchase of 16 gauge even though it's what I use for hunting.

 

[Andy Griffith]

I'd put money that the 16ga would be for the hunting shotguns they used during WW2 to train aerial gunners. Just a guess though.

 

[handejector]

Lee,

Unfortunately, I do. In older homes where lead-based paint was used, it deteriorates over time, and paint chips and more importantly, lead-containing paint dust accumulates on window sills, floors, etc. ..............
...........................
.............................
I have to run out to an appointment, but I will follow-up with some references on this. People should be aware, especially if they live in older homes where lead paint was used, that this really does constitute a public health threat and is not an invention of the anti-gun whackos.


Bullseye

Don't bother with the references- we don't need the clutter.

I concede that lead paint could be ingested and be harmful.

Maybe I could smack the kid when he chews on the window sill and give him a clean stick to gnaw on ( I HAVE seen window sills nearly gnawed away, with obvious tooth marks, in old apartments...).
Maybe I could dust the house now and then.
Maybe I could wipe the floor with a wet T-shirt if I can't afford a mop. DON'T laugh- I have mopped floors on my hands and knees with rags when I was young and had no mop.

My point is that the mindset that lead is SO dangerous has subtly been inserted into the public psyche for decades now.
I grew up in houses with lead paint, but Mom swept now and then, and didn't let me eat the woodwork. Those same houses had copper pipe soldered with lead. I grew up in Atlanta beside some BUSY streets with cars burning leaded gas.

 

[Andy Griffith]

I grew up in Atlanta beside some BUSY streets with cars

Oh, that explains it right there.
I don't know what "it" is, but it explains it.

Do you remember when Atlanta was still called Terminus?

*Just kidding*

I too grew up in houses with lead paint, and pumped leaded gasoline and even washed car parts in it.
Heck, all the old used motor oil used to be dumped in pits in the ground in this county behind the stations.

Paint with lead in it is likely the reason that some of the houses that haven't been painted since the 1950's still have paint on them. I know of several houses around here that still have the old asbestos siding on them too- it was pretty good stuff and although dated, is still in good shape and will likely outlast me.

 

[Harrison]

Didn't congress pass legislation to put a muzzle on the Consumer Protection Agency morons for attempting a similar ban some years ago?

Yes they did. That has not stopped the EPA and several other federal agencies, particularly under our current president. They just ignore congress and the law, and do their own regulatory thing. You don't think an anti-gun democrat congress is going to stop them do you?

The EPA has declared Co2 a gas necessary for life, a dangerous greenhouse gas to be regulated, and recently declared dust from farming and construction to be a dangerous pollutant the EPA will regulate it in the future. These people just don't care, what average citizens and folks with some common sense think.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Don't bother with the references- we don't need the clutter.

I concede that lead paint could be ingested and be harmful.

Maybe I could smack the kid when he chews on the window sill and give him a clean stick to gnaw on ( I HAVE seen window sills nearly gnawed away, with obvious tooth marks, in old apartments...).
Maybe I could dust the house now and then.
Maybe I could wipe the floor with a wet T-shirt if I can't afford a mop. DON'T laugh- I have mopped floors on my hands and knees with rags when I was young and had no mop.

My point is that the mindset that lead is SO dangerous has subtly been inserted into the public psyche for decades now.
I grew up in houses with lead paint, but Mom swept now and then, and didn't let me eat the woodwork. Those same houses had copper pipe soldered with lead. I grew up in Atlanta beside some BUSY streets with cars burning leaded gas.

It's not just a mindset, Lee. At the risk of provoking you further, just let me say that science is not always convenient and that deeply held beliefs and wishes do not always conform to the actual reality that good science documents and describes.

Perhaps just one reference from a Republican-controlled state government will be sufficient for those interested in protecting themselves, and I sincerely hope in the interests of the welfare of the people on this board that this information will not be deleted:

Commonly Asked QuestionsAbout Lead Poisoning

If you handle, or are exposed to, or have in the past been exposed to lead in any form (e.g., a lot of time in poorly ventilated indoor ranges), it would be advisable to have a blood level drawn by a physician. Lead affects adults as well as children, and the effects, which include brain and kidney damage can be quite serious. While the poster who noted that elemental lead is not dangerous in and of itself, is correct, unfortunately, once small particles enter the body through the mouth or lungs, it is then oxidized and transformed into compounds that are exceedingly dangerous.

This is a health issue, not a political one. Unfortunately, lead from house paint will still get into a child's (or an adult's) body regardless of how many times or how hard you hit 'em. And just to emphasize my view on the current EPA flap, I am not convinced, by the science, that banning conventional ammunition would make a difference, and I strongly oppose banning or restricting conventional lead ammunition, as my letters to EPA Administrator Jackson, and my Congressman and Senators, make abundantly clear.


Bullseye

 

[handejector]

I'm not provoked.

Lead oxide does cause lead poisoning.

I believe you have seen people/kids with lead poisoning.

At one time in my life, I manufactured ammo commercially and manufactured bullets. It is safe to say I have handled tons of lead in a MONTH, month after month, for years with no mask.
NEVER tested high.

I am merely stating that the DANGER-DANGER-DANGER of lead has been subtly emphasized for decades. Some will eventually have you believe reading "LEAD" will make you feel woozy.
So now, this DANGER must be removed from society, even down to the last bullet.
It is hype, being backed up by the real (maybe) dangers of lead.
Don't help them.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Thank you.

I agree the anti's are using some of the available science to spook people. On the other hand, even after 30 years of public health education, about 9% -- one kid out of every 11 in the United States -- will test positive for dangerous levels of lead in their bodies. This has been documented to result in decreased intellectual and learning ability, and is highly associated with the violent criminal behavior that so many of us have to deal with every day.

I do understand where you are coming from, and I appreciate your concerns about intrusive government. That's why I oppose anything to restrict conventional lead-containing ammo just as strongly as I support efforts to remove sources of lead poisoning from homes built prior to 1978.

Bullseye

 

[venomballistics]

its worse than that .... the hype not the lead
follow me on this one even though the intro dont make sense
Integrated circuits or electronic chips and even most of the transistors are entirely encased in a plastic body .. most often epoxy.
Which we all know to be impervious to just about everything but a few chemicals like methaline chloride, a component of paint stripper.
there is no way short of power tools to open up an IC or transistor package to expose its silicon soul.
you wont chew through one, and you sure wont dissolve one in your digestive tract. Yet, under RoHS the lead solder that used to be used to solder the cat whisker leads used to connect its lead pins to the die has been entirely replaced with tin based lead free solders. this has some complications that I dont feel like getting into but suffice to say they dont last as long with the new stuff.
Now consider company names like Motorolla (Now ON Semiconductor) National Semiconductor and Texas Instruments who have all abandoned lead, and placed their good names on the line over RoHS compliance. Mind you, short of loading their products into a 12 Ga using zip strip as shot buffer and blasting them into the gut of someone else ... they just cant introduce any toxicity into the system.
these things could be filled with cyanide and still just pass on through harmlessly.
That is the power of the anti lead hype.