15-22 firing pin protrusion

[kamikaze1a]

While Brett was checking his, I went out and took some photos. My pin does extend beyond the recess of the face as shown if I push the pin from the back with a pencil eraser as far as it will go. The second pic shows it better.

John, in this pic, is the rear of your fp "in" the bolt or flush with the surface of the bolt?

 

[Brett248Vista]

Just so I am crystal clear here...

I snapped a couple photos for you. Here is what I did. I took a perfectly straight edge and depressed the firing pin till it was precisely flush with the res of the bolt where the hammer strikes the pin. And this is the result:

 

[john16443]

John, in this pic, is the rear of your fp "in" the bolt or flush with the surface of the bolt?

Went back outside and checked. Yes, my original pics were with the FP pushed all the way in until it stopped. That isn't what we need to be comparing to. Below are pics of my pin position with the FP just pushed in to be flush with the back of the bolt. It shows that the FP does not protrude past the face of the recessed portion of the bolt. Your rifle is fine in my opinion, and there is no problem in Houston.

I also included a couple pics of my primer strikes on a casing I found tonight in a box of Blazer with no bullet in it. I just shot the primer and this is the mark the gun made not 30 minutes ago. LET ME CAUTION YOU RIGHT NOW! The strike mark in the photos looks MUCH deeper than in real life. I think the macro aspects of the photos that Stu and I took make it LOOK like the FP marks are much deeper than they really are. If you've got a digital camera with macro mode (they all have it), try this yourself. Remove a bullet from the casing, dump the powder and set off the primer in your garage. It will be amazingly quiet and you won't disturb anyone. Look at your mark and then take a picture of it. The pic will look like the mark is deep as all get out, but your eyes don't see it like that.

 

[john16443]

Brett I just posted what you did, hold the pin flush with the back of the bolt, and got different results. My original photos look like yours , but that was with the pencil eraser pushing the FP all the way in until it stopped. Now I'm confused as well

 

[kamikaze1a]

My fp looks like john's...but my fp strikes don't come close to what the strikes look like. If you view my brass from the side and look at the rim, it is hard to tell where the fp strike was.

I took a few pics with my camera and you are right, they do look better in a pic... Will let you know what S&W says

 

[chuck s]

If the firing pin doesn't project beyond the face of the bolt it will not strike the primer! Simple as that. If you're mis-identifying the face of the bolt (or slide) you'll confuse yourself.

The 15-22 firing pin is non-inertial (non-rebounding), meaning it projects beyond the face of the bolt all the time the hammer is resting against it. Inertial firing pins are shorter and only project beyond the face of the bolt momentarily when struck by the hammer. They retract inside the face of the bolt immediately regardless of hammer position. The M1911 is the best example.

-- Chuck

 

[kamikaze1a]

I emailed S&W and the CSR checked a 15-22 bolt he had. He said that fp protrudes so is sending shipping label for return...no questions asked. Great service!

It's hard to believe that it's that far out of spec. I wonder if the fp is short or the bolt long?

 

[VooDuuChild]

One of the first things I checked when I picked up the rifle was how far the firing pin came out. It comes out past the recess (otherwise it would not crush the rim) but does not go past the face of the bolt. There must be a hard stop machined into the bolt to keep the firing pin from coming in contact with the breech face. So you can probably dry fire all you want without damaging anything.
The .22 rifles of yesterday had a round firing pin, like the modern center fires of today. Some had very sharp shoulders where the pin became larger for the hammer to hit. This sharp corner is a weak point on all round (turned) parts. And can start cracking from heat treating and just get worse from there. The metals, design, manufacturing and heat treatment have come a long way just in the last 20 years. We are told to not dry fire a .22 because we have been told that for over 100 years. It's time to let that archaic way of thinking die.

I'm pretty sure there's a reason for them to say no dry-firing, so I'm gonna just rely on their word for it like I do my Walther P22, except my Walther manual says it's ok, as long as the safety's on. So there's at least one .22 where it's ok *at least with the safety engaged.

 

[john16443]

I'm not going to worry about my FP even if it doesn't protrude with the pin flush against the back of the bolt. I had a wonderful 450 round range session yesterday using Blazer 40gr LRN without a single firing or ejection related hiccup. Now if only the LRHO tab would consistently engage...

 

[corpulent]

My FP does not extend past the face either; same as kamikaze and john. Haven't had any issues, though, so what's the concern? Should it be fixed anyway?

The 15-22 firing pin is non-inertial (non-rebounding), meaning it projects beyond the face of the bolt all the time the hammer is resting against it. Inertial firing pins are shorter and only project beyond the face of the bolt momentarily when struck by the hammer. They retract inside the face of the bolt immediately regardless of hammer position. The M1911 is the best example.

-- Chuck

Really? For me (and prolly the other two gents) it does not extend (with a straightedge against it); unless the hammer itself pushes it slightly deeper than flush. Hammer is kinda rounded, but I can't see what it actually looks like when it's closed. It seems like it is inertial. Hammer hits it hard enough to push it past flush momentarily, and then it springs back. (?)

I must digress though, I don't really know what I'm talking about.

 

[kamikaze1a]

In my case, the dents left by the fp are pretty light and looks to be lighter than the examples posted by others. From what I have experienced, rifles usually have harder hitting fp's and my pistols leave a better dent that I am getting from this 15-22. I've not had many misfires and the ones that did not go, fired if I chambered them again.

I want to install reduced power springs in the trigger group so starting off light would probably result in even lighter. Even if I left it stock, as the springs got old, it would probably hit less hard and could become a problem after warranty done...

 

[Jav]

Even if I left it stock, as the springs got old, it would probably hit less hard and could become a problem after warranty done...

Thought it was a lifetime warranty with S&W?

 

[HalfSwiss]

It is lifetime warranty.

 

[chuck s]

You can easily verify the M&P15-22 firing pin projects past the face of the bolt and does not rebound. Keep this in mind if you're thinking of "experimenting" with the rifle. If you load the chamber and then crack the receivers, decock the hammer, and then close the receivers the hammer will be resting on the firing pin and the firing pin resting on the primer. Do not do this, even as an experiment.

1. Remove the bolt group.

2. Take a fairly long straight object (I used a cleaning toothbrush) and press the firing pin flush with the rear of the bolt. The edges of the tool should be resting on the rear of the bolt on both sides of the firing pin -- just like the hammer would be when it smacked it. Note the front of the bolt.

3. No surprises here. The firing pin projects past the face of the bolt as long as the hammer (or test object) is pressing on the rear of the bolt. The face of the bolt is the area within the recess that surrounds the cartridge base on this firearm. It's not a question of "if we consider" the recess to be the face of the bolt, it is the face of the bolt. It's the surface from which headspace is measured. Measuring it from the front of the bolt would be nonsensical.

Face and front are not synonyms. For an extreme example consider the slide of most automatic pistols where the front can be several inches forward from the face.

If you have a M1911 (and every boy should have one) press the firing pin flush with the firing pin stop and note it does not project past the face of the slide. This design uses an inertial (or rebounding) firing pin that allows hammer down on a live cartridge.

-- Chuck

 

[CrazyFingers]

Chuck, I think there may be some variation here. My firing pin does not project past the face of the bolt with a straight edge pressing the back of the firing pin flat, like the hammer would. It does not exit the firing pin channel at all in this case. The only way the rifle could fire, given this, is if the firing pin was inertial. It has to be, at least on my rifle and the others who report the same firing pin test results. If I press the firing pin further with the back of a pencil, it does exit the firing pin channel and protrudes past the bolt face, so as to strike the primer. Other than spring tension, there is no mechanical stop preventing it from doing this. Ran 300 rounds through it yesterday at the range, one FTE on my last magazine rapid firing as fast as I could pull the trigger.

 

[kamikaze1a]

You can easily verify the M&P15-22 firing pin projects past the face of the bolt and does not rebound. Keep this in mind if you're thinking of "experimenting" with the rifle. If you load the chamber and then crack the receivers, decock the hammer, and then close the receivers the hammer will be resting on the firing pin and the firing pin resting on the primer. Do not do this, even as an experiment.

1. Remove the bolt group.

2. Take a fairly long straight object (I used a cleaning toothbrush) and press the firing pin flush with the rear of the bolt. The edges of the tool should be resting on the rear of the bolt on both sides of the firing pin -- just like the hammer would be when it smacked it. Note the front of the bolt.

3. No surprises here. The firing pin projects past the face of the bolt as long as the hammer (or test object) is pressing on the rear of the bolt. The face of the bolt is the area within the recess that surrounds the cartridge base on this firearm. It's not a question of "if we consider" the recess to be the face of the bolt, it is the face of the bolt. It's the surface from which headspace is measured. Measuring it from the front of the bolt would be nonsensical.

Face and front are not synonyms. For an extreme example consider the slide of most automatic pistols where the front can be several inches forward from the face.

If you have a M1911 (and every boy should have one) press the firing pin flush with the firing pin stop and note it does not project past the face of the slide. This design uses an inertial (or rebounding) firing pin that allows hammer down on a live cartridge.

-- Chuck

Yup, that's how I checked it. At least one forum member's fp protrudes past the "face" while others said their's did not... When I emailed S&W, the CSR said he pulled a bolt and checked the way I did and found that his sample's fp protruded from the bolt face. He said send it back and providing a ppd shipping label.

As for the lifetime warranty, I would rather take care of it now or when I choose rather than waiting for it to fail, probably the day before a match...

A side note, while I'm waiting for the label to arrive, I shot a 22rf tactical rifle match yesterday. It did not miss a beat...while several 10-22's and a 22 AR conversion had to be cycled or cleared a few times. Several shooters came to check out the 15-22 after the match.

 

[chuck s]

At the risk or infinite repetition these two photos (quoted) clearly show the firing pin protruding beyond the face of the bolt. Of course you have to know the face of the bolt is inside the recess.

Just so I am crystal clear here...

I snapped a couple photos for you. Here is what I did. I took a perfectly straight edge and depressed the firing pin till it was precisely flush with the res of the bolt where the hammer strikes the pin. And this is the result:

If your firing pin ain't doing this it ain't firing. And it will stay in this position while the hammer is down and resting on the bolt. It does not retract as a M1911 firing pin will do.

-- Chuck

 

[CrazyFingers]

Mine ain't doing that, and it is firing. I have over 2000 rounds through it.

 

[kamikaze1a]

Yeah, my fp doesn't protrude and it does fire too, although dent kind of light. Firing pin probably acting like an inertia fp. It must be out of spec because the CSR at S&W checked one of theirs and said "we're sending a return label"...

 

[Brett248Vista]

Yep my guess is it's "acting" like an inertial firing pin and it's not supposed to, thus the light strikes. It should extend into the bolt face (we have determined this to be the recess where the primer sits, right Chuck?