Walther PPK....need some schooling

SW CQB 45

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My Chief ask me to find him a PPK...likely brand new. He did not say which caliber but likely 9mm Kurz due to our carry policy and the min caliber is .380.

He said years ago he had a sweet one, blued that was stolen and never replaced it.

He asked me for my advice.....urghhhh!!!!! I can talk SW, 1911 and Gl...

but no knowledge on Walther PPK.

He wants a blue one. is there a prefered model? is there a certain series or import to stay away from.

I am assuming they are all alloy framed in blue?

any other advice would be greatly appreciated.

TIA
 
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bd....excellant report.

I dont think he would know which one he had...alloy or steel frame. if you say all american guns are steel....that is what he had or might have had an older gun.

I agree, the while lettering or laser engraved just kills the looks.

I did some strolling on GB and too many to know what I am looking for and I wanted to make a list to present so he can pick and choose then I can start the search.

thanks for your input
 
The Walther PP, PPK and PPK/S are all steel framed guns. I believe there was an alloy framed variant, but that one would be rare and a collector's item.

The Walther PP series guns are beautifully balanced, point well and carry well. They are slim, but not super light. The weight isn't a bad thing when shooting...recoil with the .380 in a blowback action gun like the PP series, is snappy.

The design dates back to the 1920s and was way ahead of its time. As I undestand it, it was the first successful double action design. With a round in the chamber, pulling the trigger discharges the gun. It's blowback operation ejects the spent case, chambers the next round and cocks the weapon, leaving it in single action mode for the remaining shots.

Note that blowback operation is not identical to recoil operation and is only suitable for rounds like the .22, .32 and .380 (which are the chamberings for Walther PP series; I have read that the .32 is more pleasant to shoot then the .380). Blowback action is not considered as reliable as recoil operation.

Historically, the PP was the first model. It has a slightly longer barrel and grip frame then the more compact PPK. The PPK/S is a blend--it has the same frame as the PP, but the same slide/barrel as the PPK. The PPK/S was a variant developed to allow import even after the 1968 gun control act.

Mag capacity on the PPK is 6; the PPK/S is 7 and the PP is 7, in .380ACP.

The grips on the PP and PPK/S do NOT cover the backstrap. However, the PPK's grips DO cover the backstrap (the backstrap area of the PPK's grips actually cover the mainspring, a design variation from the PP and PPK/S). I carried a Walther PPK/S .380ACP extensively (concealed). I shot it a lot, too. My hands are hard on blue steel guns and the blue really wore off on that exposed backstrap. So, in terms of finish preservation, I like the PPK's closed backstrap design.

The double action trigger pull is typically heavy. Single action is crisp and very nice.

Sights are small, often offered with the three dot pattern.

Walther manufactured the PP series until the end of WWII. Post war production was carried out by Manurhin in France, under license of Walther. Eventually, Walther began manufacturing the guns in Germany again. German made Walthers are the most desirable. In the 1980s/90s, Interarms, under license of Walther, manufactured the PPK and PPK/S in blue and stainless steel in the US. These guns are the same, design wise, as the original German guns. If it's a stainless PPK or PPK/S, it was made in the USA. Quality control of the US made Interarms guns seems to vary.

In recent years, S&W has manufactured the Walther PPK and PPK/S in the US under license of Walther. The S&W made guns deviate somewhat from the classic design...for instance, the tang is slightly longer, to prevent hammer bite (a common problem for many shooters with the original design). The S&W made guns seems a little thicker then the classic Walther. The S&W PPK and PPK/S have had recalls and I've heard, on the Internet, complaints. I have no personal experience with them myself.

My PPK/S is an Interarms' US made gun from '89. It is reliable when using hot loads (mild loads resulted in stove pipe jams). Select a load (particularly for defense) that really cycles that slide. My wife has a US made PPK that has been reliable and even has an unusually good double action trigger. It's quite accurate.

As you know, "limp-wristing" will aggravate reliabiliity problems with all semi autos--and particularly so with blow back action semi autos. Keep the wrist locked!

Since German made PPKs available in the US are all pre-1968, they will be pricey and more of a collector's item. The German PPK/Ss were imported after '68, but are expensive items, too. Plus, I don't know how these vintage guns would fare with modern duty ammo. Some gunsmithing might be needed. But they will be very fine guns--I have a German made PP from the '60s that is finer in over all fit and finish then my US made PPK/S.

I have no personal experience with the Manurhin guns.

As with the Beretta 92, the Walther PP series has a slide mounted safety catch, which will also serve as a decocker. It is small and difficult to flip up...particularly under the stress of a gunfight. In a gunfight, you may be injured and the hands may be bloody. I'd hate to have flip that tiny safety in such a situation.

The alternative is to carry the weapon with the safety off. However, if dropped in this condition, the gun may discharge.

So, of the PP series guns, which one to select? Personally, I'd go with .380 PPK in blue steel. I would consider replacing the stock plastic grips with wood made by Nill Grips. However, the stock grips are serviceable. My first choice would be a German made PPK. Second choice would be a US made, Interarms PPK, preferably new in the box. I would pass on the S&W and the Manurhin, due to lack of personal experience.

However, if your chief wants a brand new gun, the S&W is the only game in town...so hopefully you'll get some good information on this forum concerning it.

For a carry gun, I prefer the PPK over the PPK/S and PP only because it conceals slightly better. As I have medium/small hands, the PPK is not too small for me. If I just wanted a shooter for the range, I might prefer the PP, which is a little more most pleasant, due to its additional weight and size. It also points very, very well.

As a carry gun, your chief might prefer the PPK/S if his hands are larger. An extra round doesn't hurt, either. With either model, to improve concealment, you can use a magazine with a flat floor plate, instead of the spur type. If carried on the ankle, I would go with the flat floor plate. The US made Interarms guns offered one of each with the pistol. I'm not sure about the S&W.

I personally prefer blue over stainless steel. I have heard that the blue guns are more reliable, but don't know if that's true or not. But if I'm going to carry a classic like the PPK, let it look like it belongs in a shoulder rig under a dinner jacket.

By the way, since the PPK is often chosen because of the James Bond connection, and a shoulder holster is desired, there is none better than the elegant and totally practical one made by Andy Arratoonian, of Horseshoe Leather, in England. You easily can order on line. He is a true master and makes every holster himself.

Now, with all that said, since I assume we are talking about a gun for LE work...allow me to suggest what I consider to be a better .380 alternative: the excellent Sig Sauer P232 (or its predecessor, the P230). It is chambered in in .380, and may be had in blue (w/alloy frame) or in stainless steel. Similar in design to the PPK. It's slightly larger then the PPK, but the blue version is lighter. Overall size of the Sig is comparable to the PP. The Sig is elegant and visually and mechanically similar to the Walther PP series guns.

Like the Walther, the Sig is a blowback action and its barrel is fixed to the frame. Dissasembly is similar, but not the same. With the Walther, the trigger guard is disengaged from the frame before the slide is lifted off. With the Sig, a frame mounted lever is turned, then the slide is lifted off.

Like the Walther, the Sig does not have a slide lock release lever. It locks open on an empty chamber. With the slide locked to the rear and a loaded mag is in place, the slingshot method is used to chamber a round.

The P232 uses a frame mounted decocker (like the Sig P220 series). It's safe to carry with a round in the chamber, hammer down. There is no manual safety on the P232(internal safeties prevent discharge if dropped). Magazine capacity is 7 rounds. The mags have a modest spur style floor plate. Grips are plastic and serviceable. If wood is prefered, Karl Nill grips wood grips are excellent.

Double action trigger pull is reasonable and single action is excellent. The Sig P232/230 has great handling characteristics, is accurate, reliable and is very well made...and it's still made in Germany. I am one who believes the German made Sigs have better quality control than the American manufactured Sigs.

One potential issue with the Sig P232/230--it uses the European style heel release for the magazine, like the Walther P-38. The Walther PP series guns have the mag release button in the famililar American location. Personally, I don't have an issue with the European heel release...but some do.

Bottom line: if I was going into harm's way with a .380 (Heaven forbid), it would be the Sig P232 or P230. If selecting a .380, I would also prefer the Sig over the latest micro pistols from Smith, Ruger, et al, as I have no experience with them.

I would go with a premium hollow point that was reliable and accurate in my weapon. I like the Remington Golden Saber 102 grain, one of the heavier weight loads in .380.

Last thought: Your chief maybe nostaligic for his old Walther, or he might really like the idea of the James Bond gun. Lord knows, I do. But, if we're talking about a small life saver when the chips are down, it's hard to beat a Smith J frame in .38 special...or a Glock 26 or 27 in 9mm or .40. But that's another discussion!

If he has his heart set on a Walther PPK and is willing to spend the money, find one of those mint German ones that turn up now and then.

If you've read this far and haven't fallen asleep, thanks for listening and I hope it was useful information.
 
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One of my favorite gun stores lists the following:
Walther PPK .380 Blue w/2 mags & case ***UNFIRED*** 439.00

Let me know if you want the contact info.
 
Back about '83 or '84, I bought a French PPK/S from Little Biff's Gun Room north of Fort Knox. It was marked "Ste. Etienne", the only one I've seen. All the rest were marked "Manhurin".

It was reliable and reasonably accurate.

I sold it to a friend here in Ohio in the late '80s or early '90s. Legal concealed carry hadn't swept the country yet, and it was mostly just a toy.

I prefer a compact or full sized auto, 9x19mm and up, or a J-Frame Smith, because I'm not a fan of .380acp. Still if I get a job before my friend, I'll probably buy the Walther back from him just to have one.
 
I have a Manurhin PP .32 ACP. With the plastic base magazine I find it very comfortable. It is less so with the all metal mag.

I would imagine that the smaller PPK is less comfortable to hold unless you have small hands.
 
The post war 'Walther' marked PP and PPK pistols were made in France @ the Manurhin plant for quite some time.
Same pistol, just the markings were different.
The rules in place after the War didn't allow handgun mfgr in W.Germany, so they set up shop in France@ Manurhin about 50/60 miles away from Ulm.
Marking, final finish, assembly & proof of the 'Walther' product was done in Ulm if I understand the history correctly.

I think Walther was finally allowed to mfg complete handguns at Ulm when they got the P1 contract from the WG gov't.
Manurhin mgf did continue though.

I've had some of the French mfg pistols and they were every bit as nice as the Walther marked product. But just because of the name marked on them, they do not get the same money as the Walther. That's good if you're shopping for a shooter to hang on to.
 
The better ones are the "Interarms" imported ones before they were under the S&W umbrella.

So if you find one stamped Interarms so much the better. When they had the big recall on them, those were not included.

A like new stainless one sold yesterday at the LGS for $375 to a retired Detroit LEO. He said he carried it as a backup even though he was not supposed to, He was there on the line during the riots. He just happened to be in the shop when the guy pawning it walked in. Gun lasted 10 minutes.:)

I have the SW version, it worked fine before the recall. They "fixed" it, it went back 3 more times before it worked correctly again. As much as I like and commend SW customer service and think it is the best in the business, the whole Walther thing was not good.

Great shooters and very accurate.
 
"The S&W made guns deviate somewhat from the classic design...for instance, the tang is slightly longer, to prevent hammer bite (a common problem for many shooters with the original design)."

And this is so worth having it kills all the other versions of this gun {unless you want a German made collector and wont be shooting it.} I have two S&W PPKs guns and have had zero problems with one and only had to polish the feedramp on the second one to make it 100%. If someone wants a PPK type pistol the S&W stainless PPKs is definately the way to go. Both mine are extremely accurate and I carry them often. Fit and finish on both guns is superior to just about all the handguns I have owned/seen in the last 6 or 7 years.
 
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My experience with the PPK's is limited but I'm not entirely sure, based on that experience, why everyone is so quick to trash the S&W/Walther product. I have a stainless S&W PPK that worked fine before the recall and it worked fine after I got it back. They did take way too long to do fix, however. It feeds ball, Hydrashok, Hornady, Gold Dot, etc. with never a problem and good accuracy even on the first double action shot. It has been a good, solid small pistol that's done what I want it to do without complaint.

A friend of mine had an Interarms PPK/s, on the other hand, that was just junk. The first double action shot was impossible, it nearly took both hands just to pull the trigger. And it didn't work reliably with anything most of the time. It didn't feed ball, HP, anything better than about 50% and that was with various mags, etc. It just didn't work.

I understand different brands have different reputations generally, but it's worth pointing out that individual specimens may or may not conform to the general opinions. I've had nothing but good experience with my S&W and, even though everyone seems to think better of the Interarms guns, the only one I ever used much was just hopeless. My point being, don't be too quick to write off the S&W.
 
My experience with the PPK's is limited but I'm not entirely sure, based on that experience, why everyone is so quick to trash the S&W/Walther product. I have a stainless S&W PPK that worked fine before the recall and it worked fine after I got it back. They did take way too long to do fix, however. It feeds ball, Hydrashok, Hornady, Gold Dot, etc. with never a problem and good accuracy even on the first double action shot. It has been a good, solid small pistol that's done what I want it to do without complaint.

A friend of mine had an Interarms PPK/s, on the other hand, that was just junk. The first double action shot was impossible, it nearly took both hands just to pull the trigger. And it didn't work reliably with anything most of the time. It didn't feed ball, HP, anything better than about 50% and that was with various mags, etc. It just didn't work.

I understand different brands have different reputations generally, but it's worth pointing out that individual specimens may or may not conform to the general opinions. I've had nothing but good experience with my S&W and, even though everyone seems to think better of the Interarms guns, the only one I ever used much was just hopeless. My point being, don't be too quick to write off the S&W.

I think people forget how iffy the performance on the old Interarms was. Walther made a deal with S&W and they have changed the things that did not work on the PPK & PPK/S models. They also lengthened the beavertail just enough to keep the railroad track fairy away for good.
 
I do agree with the Interarms version having a awful double action pull. It's like 15-20 lbs(not sure but feels that way)

My beef with the SW version is that it worked fine and I never should have sent it in for a drop recall because somebody dropped it from a 10 story building or something and it went off.

Another advantage to the SW version is it is still under warranty where the Walthers are not.

I still have my SW version and it is a pleasure to shoot. It's a classic design but to big for a pocket gun and if I am gonna holster a gun it's going to be bigger than a .380 with more rounds.
 
Here's a German PPKS, I don't have a PPK to compare it with. I'll just say it's never malfunctioned and is surprisingly accurate for a small pistol. As has been mentioned they do have a snappy recoil so it's no range pistol.


IMG_0405.jpg
 
GREAT SCOTT BATMAN....

I got alot of great info. thanks!!!!!!

can you PM me the gun business info.

My Chief said he wants a blue PPK. He does not remember the particulars but I would be interested in speaking with that gun store that has it for sale.

thanks again for the schooling.
 
I have a Interarms PPKS that I've used as a BUG for over 10 years, and before I bought my 442 I often carried it when I needed a small concealed carry handgun.

Following a buffing of the feedramp, mine has been totally reliable. As with most blowback autos, it is very accurate. I would say very, very accurate. Like others have noted, the double action trigger is heavy but the single action is very crisp and light enough, around 5 pounds.

Again, because of the blowback operation, the slide spring is stout. My wife cannot operate the slide to chamber a round so it's not really a good firearm for a typical sized female or young people. Also, it's not a 'fun' gun to shoot a lot of rounds through. I have to qualify with mine twice a year and anytime I shoot more than a couple of magazines through it I wear a shooting glove. The recoil of a .380 ACP round in any blowback can be pretty snappy, but as noted above, they can be quite accurate.

305543281.jpg
 
I've carried a 380 Interarms stainless PPK/S since the mid 90s. It eats everything I put through it. As stated earlier by someone else it really likes Remington 102 grain Golden Sabers. Double action pull isn't too bad, single action just about right. Good accuracy also. Maybe it was built on a Wednesday. I've heard better things about the Interarms version than the SW version.
 
Greetings, All,

Sweet Bride has had an Interarms PPK/S for many years, and though she loves it, ended up giving it to me, as she really had problems working the slide in a quick and efficient manner. This has already been mentioned, but thought I'd toss in our experience, just for grins. Her Walther shoots very, and has a decent double action trigger pull, and a wonderful single action trigger pull. I also have a Sig P230, which I have shot a great deal over the years. I concur that this little pistol, which is a bit larger than the PPK/S, is more accurate than the Walther, and it has a smoother action and trigger pull, all around. That having been said, however, I really love shooting my wife's little Walther, and if I had to choose between the Sig, and the Walther, I'd be hard-pressed to do it. These days, if I'm going to carry the Sig, I might as well carry my Glock M27, which is not that much larger. If I want to carry a .380, I tend to reach for the PPK/S, as it's smaller than my Sig, and a bit easier to conceal. IF the chips were down, and I had to choose just one .390, however, I'd probably take my Sig, as it's just a super fine weapon, and made like a Swiss clock!! Take care, and God Bless!

Every Good Wish,
Doc

P.S. We have carried WW Silvertips in both the PPK/S. and P230, and never have had a single problem with jamming or malfunctions of any type.
 
I've been carrying my Interarms made PPK since May 1999, when I bought it new. It's blued, and I don't care if it looks worn.
The .380 is a little snappy, but not bad.
The .380 PPK also has a more stout recoil spring, so it takes more than the .32 ACP to pull back the slide. I've heard that, because of this, it's not recommended for women.
What a crock. Just tell them to see it as their ex's nardsack and they'll give it a good yank, to be sure!

Mine's been very reliable. I've probably got 2,000 rounds through it. My cousin, so impressed with mine, bought one as well. In a little more than a year, he proceeded to put more than 8,000 rounds through it!
It was worn, and not as accurate as it had been, but still functioned fine. The Interarms-made Walther PPK is a tough, lil' companion.

Mine's been fairly accurate if I do my part. I usually shoot it at 25 yards, and can keep all rounds on a 9-inch paper plate at that distance. That's standing on my hind legs, two-hand grasp.

About 10 years ago, on Ebay, I picked up an adjustable rear sight for the Walther PPK!
Michigan Machine Corp. (MMC) made them in the 1970s, and I recall the late gun writer Skeeter Skelton writing about this adjustable sight on his own PPK.
It works great! Long out of production, though. I paid $55 for mine, new in the plastic bag. When I received it, there was an old price tag of $75 on the bag. Love that devaluation!
The adjustable sight is tiny, and adjusted with a very tiny Allen wrench. not convenient as using my Swiss Army Knife, but once set it never drifts off.

I shoot a lot of lead bullets in mine: my own reloads. Much cheaper than jacketed bullets, and easier on the bore. I use Bullseye, W231 and Unique, but other fast powders will work. My most accurate loads have been at 850 to 900 fps -- no sense beating the gun to death for practice.

I've been able to hurl 90 gr. jacketed hollowpoints at a little over 1,000 feet per second, as measured six feet off the muzzle on my chronograph. That's a +P load and I don't often do so.

For carry, I use Fiocchi full metal jacket. From what I've researched extensively, the .380 has difficulty with penetration. I figure it's better to ensure that the bullet reaches vitals, than to rely on a fancy-pants hollowpoint that may not. The Fiocchi is loaded a little faster than typical American ammo, but not quite to +P levels. It's good, reliable stuff!

My PPK rides nicely in my front jeans pocket, with the non finger-rest magazine. A good jacket pocket gun too.
I tend to lubricate mine with a dry lubricant, and just a trace of moist lubricant like Break Free CLP or light gun oil on the slide rails, barrel and recoil spring.

I just wish someone made a black, rubber grip for the PPK. I've searched for years. No one does. But I recall reading of someone offering one briefly in a 1970s magazine.
Perhaps I'll get lucky again and find one.

Search for an MMC adjustable sight for the PPK. May take a while, as there can't be many out there, but it's worth the search.

The PPK, with its 95 gr. ball ammo, is my go-to house gun. I don't feel undergunned.

The Interarms PPK is a fine pistol. Your boss should enjoy it.
 
I've been carrying my Interarms made PPK since May 1999, when I bought it new. It's blued, and I don't care if it looks worn.
The .380 is a little snappy, but not bad.
The .380 PPK also has a more stout recoil spring, so it takes more than the .32 ACP to pull back the slide. I've heard that, because of this, it's not recommended for women.
What a crock. Just tell them to see it as their ex's nardsack and they'll give it a good yank, to be sure!

Mine's been very reliable. I've probably got 2,000 rounds through it. My cousin, so impressed with mine, bought one as well. In a little more than a year, he proceeded to put more than 8,000 rounds through it!
It was worn, and not as accurate as it had been, but still functioned fine. The Interarms-made Walther PPK is a tough, lil' companion.

Mine's been fairly accurate if I do my part. I usually shoot it at 25 yards, and can keep all rounds on a 9-inch paper plate at that distance. That's standing on my hind legs, two-hand grasp.

About 10 years ago, on Ebay, I picked up an adjustable rear sight for the Walther PPK!
Michigan Machine Corp. (MMC) made them in the 1970s, and I recall the late gun writer Skeeter Skelton writing about this adjustable sight on his own PPK.
It works great! Long out of production, though. I paid $55 for mine, new in the plastic bag. When I received it, there was an old price tag of $75 on the bag. Love that devaluation!
The adjustable sight is tiny, and adjusted with a very tiny Allen wrench. not convenient as using my Swiss Army Knife, but once set it never drifts off.

I shoot a lot of lead bullets in mine: my own reloads. Much cheaper than jacketed bullets, and easier on the bore. I use Bullseye, W231 and Unique, but other fast powders will work. My most accurate loads have been at 850 to 900 fps -- no sense beating the gun to death for practice.

I've been able to hurl 90 gr. jacketed hollowpoints at a little over 1,000 feet per second, as measured six feet off the muzzle on my chronograph. That's a +P load and I don't often do so.

For carry, I use Fiocchi full metal jacket. From what I've researched extensively, the .380 has difficulty with penetration. I figure it's better to ensure that the bullet reaches vitals, than to rely on a fancy-pants hollowpoint that may not. The Fiocchi is loaded a little faster than typical American ammo, but not quite to +P levels. It's good, reliable stuff!

My PPK rides nicely in my front jeans pocket, with the non finger-rest magazine. A good jacket pocket gun too.
I tend to lubricate mine with a dry lubricant, and just a trace of moist lubricant like Break Free CLP or light gun oil on the slide rails, barrel and recoil spring.

I just wish someone made a black, rubber grip for the PPK. I've searched for years. No one does. But I recall reading of someone offering one briefly in a 1970s magazine.
Perhaps I'll get lucky again and find one.

Search for an MMC adjustable sight for the PPK. May take a while, as there can't be many out there, but it's worth the search.

The PPK, with its 95 gr. ball ammo, is my go-to house gun. I don't feel undergunned.

The Interarms PPK is a fine pistol. Your boss should enjoy it.

Gato....I think this is the model (Interarms PPK) I want to find him. I was a day late on the one post above. it was gone when I called.

Gato....if you dont mind could you post a picture so I can see the slide markings to know what to look for. if its easier, I will pm you my email and you can email me a pic, so I can begin my search.
 
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