Using back-up sights?

[NamibianAmphibian]

For those who haven't figured out already, my question will reveal how tacti-un-cool I am.


As I understand the back-up sight concept, they are available to flip up for use if one's primary optics fail. Is the idea that one would remove the failed optic (quick release), throw it at the enemy , and then deploy the flip up sights?

I got a scope in the mail today and I see no way to mount it without rendering the MBUS sights useless until the scope is removed.

Again, please forgive the noobish question.

 

[CPTBeaker]

Is the idea that one would remove the failed optic (quick release), throw it at the enemy , and then deploy the flip up sights?

Yep. Pretty Much.

 

[Foxtrot]

For those who haven't figured out already, my question will reveal how tacti-un-cool I am.


As I understand the back-up sight concept, they are available to flip up for use if one's primary optics fail. Is the idea that one would remove the failed optic (quick release), throw it at the enemy , and then deploy the flip up sights?

I got a scope in the mail today and I see no way to mount it without rendering the MBUS sights useless until the scope is removed.

Again, please forgive the noobish question.

LoL.... i've thrown things at the enemy but never a weapon optic. The idea is that you should be able to co-witness thru the optic with the BUIS if it does fail. But if you can't then rip it off and chuck it hard at the enemy.

Try a flip to the side mount?

Are you talking a scope like a leopold, or a sighting optic like the ACOG or EOTech or something like that?

 

[NamibianAmphibian]

LoL.... i've thrown things at the enemy but never a weapon optic. The idea is that you should be able to co-witness thru the optic with the BUIS if it does fail. But if you can't then rip it off and chuck it hard at the enemy.

Try a flip to the side mount?

In my case, the "enemy" is anything I find in the recycling bin that looks fun to shoot. So, I'll likely just transplant the MBUS sites onto another gun if I can't mount them together.

Are you talking a scope like a leopold, or a sighting optic like the ACOG or EOTech or something like that?

I'm mounting a fACOG/EOTech clone right now to try out.

It

1. blocks the MBUS sights from flipping up when mounted
2. doesn't have sufficient eye relief to be mounted far enough in front of the back-up sites for it to be usable and the backups to be deployable
3. really has it's own "back-up" built in since it is both optic and red dot.

 

[Foxtrot]

It shouldn't block the flip ups. It sounds like you have it too far back and are trying to use it like a convential scope. Move it forward some. Those types are intended for both-eyes-open shooting. They aren't supposed to have a set eye relief, at least the EOTech type of sight which is basically set it where you want it type of thing which gives you the open both-eyes field of view with the dot in good focus and usable.

Maybe i'm not understanding what your saying or something. But anyway.....

 

[Bulld4wg]

Actually with most red dots you co-witness them with your iron sights. You don't toss your red dot!

 

[CrazyFingers]

I just removed my MBUS from my MOE 15-22. Once I mounted an optic on it, it just seemed silly to have backup irons on a .22 plinker. Now, I did install the rear MBUS on my BCM middy when I got it, but that's apples to oranges.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

If you have mounted a magnified optic then you must remove it before using MBUS. If you have a non magnified 1x optic then you can flip up your MBUS for use at any time provided your optic is mounted at the proper height for co-witness.

Below- 1x optic at lower 1/3 co-witness. MBUS can be used at any time.

 

[NamibianAmphibian]

OK, it took me a while to get an image posted. I think this will help. This is a 4x32 scope with a red dot mounted on top.


(click the image to enlarge)

As you can see, the rear MBUS sight limits how far back the scope can be mounted.

With the stock extended and the scope mounted as in the photo, looking into the scope is like looking through a soda straw. I need to move my eye about 2 inches forward of where it would normally be positioned to see a reasonable image in the scope. This leads me to believe that I either need to remove the MBUS and move the scope back or find a scope with greater eye relief. I have no issues with the red dot right now.

 

[Jav]

I just removed my MBUS from my MOE 15-22. Once I mounted an optic on it, it just seemed silly to have backup irons on a .22 plinker.

Hey, you never know if the squirrels will attack back! They notice you stopped shooting, they'll be all over you

 

[Foxtrot]

OK, it took me a while to get an image posted. I think this will help. This is a 4x32 scope with a red dot mounted on top.



As you can see, the rear MBUS sight limits how far back the scope can be mounted.

With the stock extended and the scope mounted as in the photo, looking into the scope is like looking through a soda straw. I need to move my eye about 2 inches forward of where it would normally be positioned to see a reasonable image in the scope. This leads me to believe that I either need to remove the MBUS and move the scope back or find a scope with greater eye relief.

OK, I see now. I thought you were just mounting a red dot type clone like 1x type, didn't realize you also had a magnified. What you actually had is two pieces, the magnified plus the red dot on top. No wonder I mis-understood what you were saying. Yeah, with the magnified you would need to remove the BUIS most likely so you can move it far enough back to get the eye relief you need. Or... like you said, find a scope with a longer eye relief....

 

[NamibianAmphibian]

So, as suggested I moved the MBUS sights to another rifle and moved the scope back.


(click to enlarge)

Much better now. I think I'll miss the MBUS sights though. I really enjoyed shooting with them.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Properly held, your nose should be pretty close to the charging handle. If that's where you have to mount the scope in order to have the proper eye relief then you might consider how you are holding the rifle or the scope has zero eye relief.

 

[NamibianAmphibian]

If that's where you have to mount the scope in order to have the proper eye relief then you might consider how you are holding the rifle or the scope has zero eye relief.

I'm guessing the scope has near zero eye relief. That's what I get for buying a Chinese knockoff. At least it LOOKS good.

I'll also look into how I'm holding the rifle. I have had a lot of instruction on shotguns (skeet/trap/clays) but none on rifles.


EDIT:

Interestingly, Trijicon lists real ACOG 4x32's as having only 1.5" eye relief. http://www.trijicon.com/na_en/products/product3b.php?pid=TA01. That's about what I'm seeing with the clone.

 

[Foxtrot]

Looks like its mounted too far back. You should be able to get your nose pretty close to the charging handle and still have the proper eye relief.

 

[BeginingOfTheEnd]

I'm suprised if you can't get a good sight picture with moving forward a t least a couple 3 inches. Even if it is a cheap one.

 

[NamibianAmphibian]

I'll play around with the fit later tonight and I hope to get to the range tomorrow morning. Hopefully I can get it in an appropriate position.

FWIW,many of the photos I have found on the web show the ACOG mounted surprisingly far back on the M4.

One example:
Trijicon ACOG TA-31F – Review | Gunfire Blog

 

[NamibianAmphibian]

I dredged up some instructions for setting up the ACOG on an M4

http://www.rrgc.org.nz/uploads/files/M4ACOG.pdf

Basically it says to get a comfortable stock weld then move the scope until the shooter has good eye relief and focus. Which is essentially how I ended up with the scope way back where it is.


I viewed the USMC marksman training videos and they are all on M16's which has a lot more stock available than the M4 carbines. So on the M16 one can have a longer stock but still have stock weld much further forward without the stock weld being on an uncomfortable combination of stock and bare buffer tube.

Can anyone point me to resources for setup / fitment of a carbine like the 15-22? (I know how to physically install the stuff, but I need to figure out things like proper stock length, position of stock weld, position of the optics.)

Thanks for any help you can provide.

 

[Foxtrot]

I dredged up some instructions for setting up the ACOG on an M4

http://www.rrgc.org.nz/uploads/files/M4ACOG.pdf

Basically it says to get a comfortable stock weld then move the scope until the shooter has good eye relief and focus. Which is essentially how I ended up with the scope way back where it is.


I viewed the USMC marksman training videos and they are all on M16's which has a lot more stock available than the M4 carbines. So on the M16 one can have a longer stock but still have stock weld much further forward without the stock weld being on an uncomfortable combination of stock and bare buffer tube.

Can anyone point me to resources for setup / fitment of a carbine like the 15-22? (I know how to physically install the stuff, but I need to figure out things like proper stock length, position of stock weld, position of the optics.)

Thanks for any help you can provide.

I keep forgetting this is a 4x sight. Duh.

You adjust position for both a comfortable cheek weld and proper eye relief. The proper in this case is whats proper for you to achieve those.

 

[NamibianAmphibian]

I took it to the range this morning and zeroed the scope in. I found I was able to move the scope a notch or two forward of where I had it yesterday.



(click to enlarge)

I'm satisfied with the scope thus far. It wasn't even on paper at 25 yards from the factory but I got it zeroed after a while.