optics review (for the 15-22)

[DasFriek]

Everyone should own one Tasco BKRD30 to have on hand "just in case".
Ive used it on everything from pistols, shotguns and rifles.
Its only downfall is its size on a pistol and 5MOA dot, But for $30 its nice to have when you get a new gun and have no optics for it yet.

Ive used several optics on my 15/22 now and only 1 gave me issues.

I bought a Sightmark reflex sight off Amazon which i love everything about due to its fine 2 or 3 MOA dots and 4 reticles. But its absolutely useless outside in bright sunlight.

Nikon Buckmasters 3-9x40 is a great scope that stayed a while on the 15/22 until i bought a bolt action that needed it.

Now i have a Centerpoint 4-16x40 thats a $70 Walmart item that works as well as the Nikon but has better specs and much more flexible. This is the best low end scope for the money imo, And many other peoples opinions also.

Until recently i used a Bushnell TRS25 as a secondary sight for close up less than 75' shots and it was on a 45 degree mount. Its great and small with a 3MOA dot and very Bright. Sadley since my Sightmark reflex sucked so bad its doing duty on my Ruger MKIII 22/45 until i can come up with another sight.
The Tasco is just so heavy on this pistol so i tend to stay away from it this time.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Ordered a Primary Arms Gen3 on Saturday. Arrived via USPS less than 48hrs later this morning. Another ^5 to PA for fast shipping.

Fit/finish is first class. (better than my PA 4x compact)

Dot is sharp. Is advertised at 4MOA.

Total weight with riser is a little over 6oz (my Tasco and PEPR was a whopping 15oz). Since I replaced the OEM 15-22 sights with MBUS, the total weight difference with MBUS + scope w/riser is a mere 2.5 ounces more than just having the OEM sights alone. That's great if you're looking to keep weight down and accessories up

The riser is QD. It works fine I suppose but I just closed the QD handle and snugged the nut. IMO, rather not goof around with cheap QD mounts and break em. The low and high mounts are attached with 4 screws in the bottom of the scope. The low mount will work well for the Sig522.

KillFlash - It's a winner! Eliminates Sun glare great. Barely notice honeycomb is there. Not sure about glint reduction keeping my position hidden from zombie squirrels... but I trust that it will (wish me luck).

Co-witness is a little low in the glass with MBUS. Probably in the lower 1/4 of glass. It works... but I'd rather have the sights up in the glass a bit more. Though... I think the Laserlyte Kryptonyte K-15 Laser will slide right under it which is what I had in mind to begin with.

 

[~tc~]

I am using the Swift 1.5-4.5x32.
Riflescopes at Swift Sport Optics

I got it at the local Tanner Gun Show (yes, the one where a guy was shot) for $75 (factory refurb'd, normal price $150). I am using NC Star "medium" height rings.

The image is VERY bright. I compared head to head with Burris, Leopold, etc and the image quality is comparable - confirming their fully multi-coated claim. I compared to just about EVERY low magnification (1-4x) scope out there, and this one is, IMHO, far and away the best value for the money. The only thing it's missing that was on my "shopping list" is an illuminated reticle.

Clicks are 1/4"@100yds, which is nice - not too fine.

How it looks on the gun:

Circle plus Reticle (from the Swift website)

Results (25 rds at 25 yds)

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Nice scope... and shooting!

 

[~tc~]

Thanks ... I need more practice I think. Might try some standard velocity or even subsonic rounds and see if it helps.

 

[dvang]

PHIL, does it cowitness better with the factory iron sights?

thanks

Ordered a Primary Arms Gen3 on Saturday. Arrived via USPS less than 48hrs later this morning. Another ^5 to PA for fast shipping.

Fit/finish is first class. (better than my PA 4x compact)

Dot is sharp. Is advertised at 4MOA.

Total weight with riser is a little over 6oz (my Tasco and PEPR was a whopping 15oz). Since I replaced the OEM 15-22 sights with MBUS, the total weight difference with MBUS + scope w/riser is a mere 2.5 ounces more than just having the OEM sights alone. That's great if you're looking to keep weight down and accessories up

The riser is QD. It works fine I suppose but I just closed the QD handle and snugged the nut. IMO, rather not goof around with cheap QD mounts and break em. The low and high mounts are attached with 4 screws in the bottom of the scope. The low mount will work well for the Sig522.

KillFlash - It's a winner! Eliminates Sun glare great. Barely notice honeycomb is there. Not sure about glint reduction keeping my position hidden from zombie squirrels... but I trust that it will (wish me luck).

Co-witness is a little low in the glass with MBUS. Probably in the lower 1/4 of glass. It works... but I'd rather have the sights up in the glass a bit more. Though... I think the Laserlyte Kryptonyte K-15 Laser will slide right under it which is what I had in mind to begin with.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

PHIL, does it cowitness better with the factory iron sights?

thanks

MBUS is A2 height. Same with factory 15-22 sights (I think). Looks the same anyway.

After playing with it... I think part of the visual difference is simply the smaller glass than what I was used to with the Tasco and BSA. Co-witness is ok just slightly lower than what I had been used to.

 

[dvang]

PHIL- what size is the glass or what size is it 1inch 30mm etc?? I looked on PA site but it doesnt say..

thanks for your time

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

PHIL- what size is the glass or what size is it 1inch 30mm etc?? I looked on PA site but it doesnt say..

thanks for your time

28mm outside tube. Inside glass front (closest to the front sight) is 25mm at the threads (probably 24mm visible glass). At the rear it's about 23mm visible- not easy to measure exact.

But that isn't the whole story. The PA light emitter (If that's the right term) is dead center at the bottom of the glass and pokes up about 1/8'' into visible glass. My Tasco isn't like that. It's buried in the scope housing and is not visible.

Maybe the best way to describe co-witness is that I see about 3/4+ of the sight post guard on MBUS. It works for me cuz I got the sight post cranked up to sight in at 50 yards and I like a slightly low 6oclock sight picture. All that said, I'd prefer if the PA scope was about 1/8'' lower.

------ added to post

The LaRue HK mount combined with the PA micro dot is absolute co-witness. The set up I have is defined as "proper lower 1/3 co-witness"

If I was ordering again I would probably not order the $30 mount from PA, and order the $98 LaRue QD HK. Just my personal preference. Either will work.

 

[51reva]

I have the Aimpoint M2- 2MOA dot clone from George at rrages.com. I have used it on my MP15 VT. I was impressed. It held zero, has a nice sharp dot. Wish i could afford the real thing, but I spent all my $$$ on the rifle. I would/will buy again, if needed. It was $99 with high mount to my door.
George is a great vendor to deal with. Very laid back, and stands behind his product. Brett Vista turned me on to RRages.

 

[KaiDoi]

Ordered a Primary Arms Gen3 on Saturday. Arrived via USPS less than 48hrs later this morning. Another ^5 to PA for fast shipping.

Fit/finish is first class. (better than my PA 4x compact)

Dot is sharp. Is advertised at 4MOA.

Total weight with riser is a little over 6oz (my Tasco and PEPR was a whopping 15oz). Since I replaced the OEM 15-22 sights with MBUS, the total weight difference with MBUS + scope w/riser is a mere 2.5 ounces more than just having the OEM sights alone. That's great if you're looking to keep weight down and accessories up

The riser is QD. It works fine I suppose but I just closed the QD handle and snugged the nut. IMO, rather not goof around with cheap QD mounts and break em. The low and high mounts are attached with 4 screws in the bottom of the scope. The low mount will work well for the Sig522.

KillFlash - It's a winner! Eliminates Sun glare great. Barely notice honeycomb is there. Not sure about glint reduction keeping my position hidden from zombie squirrels... but I trust that it will (wish me luck).

Co-witness is a little low in the glass with MBUS. Probably in the lower 1/4 of glass. It works... but I'd rather have the sights up in the glass a bit more. Though... I think the Laserlyte Kryptonyte K-15 Laser will slide right under it which is what I had in mind to begin with.

Phil,

New guy on board, here. This is so much info here to digest.

My M&P 15-22 is jail, so to speak. Cannot wait to get my hands on it.

I was hoping to get the new PA 4x compact scope. However, it may be awhile before Marshall gets them in stock.

In the meantime, I was thinking of getting the PA Micro Dot. What are the limits on this particular red dot with regard to distance/accuracy? I know there are many factors involved, but in general . . . Thanks.

-Andy

 

[janizary]

I've got a PA micro dot on an offset mount on one of my ARs. Quick acquisition, good visibility, little or no glare or starburting from the dot itself, and, with the kill-flash, makes the dot perfectly visible on a bright day (not its purpose, but the extra 'shade' provides the benefit nonetheless). Have not used it as a primary sight (again, using it offset with an 4X fixed sight), but given how good it works for what I've used it for, I'd have no issues using one as a primary on a short range carbine.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Phil,

New guy on board, here. This is so much info here to digest.

My M&P 15-22 is jail, so to speak. Cannot wait to get my hands on it.

I was hoping to get the new PA 4x compact scope. However, it may be awhile before Marshall gets them in stock.

In the meantime, I was thinking of getting the PA Micro Dot. What are the limits on this particular red dot with regard to distance/accuracy? I know there are many factors involved, but in general . . . Thanks.

-Andy

Hi Andy.

Welcome.

1x red dots are designed for quick target acquisition and two eyes open shooting. They aren't the best for pinpoint accuracy at distance. The issue red dots suffer is the area of the target the dot covers at distance. The PA Micro Dot has a 4MOA dot. That means at 100yds the dot is 4 inches on the target. 2 inches at 50yds. -- That said, I sight mine using a 6oclock sight pic. Meaning that I use the very top edge of the dot for aiming. Doing so makes for fairly precise aiming with a larger dot like a 4-5MOA.

I have a PA Compact 4x and it is awesome. The fine T reticle is a pleasure to shoot with. (I think they copied it from one of the ACOGs) I have it mounted on my Sig522. The built in mount is a bit too low for me to use on the 15-22. It's about the same height of the NcStar MarkIII scopes that a lot of folks use risers to get em up higher.


Marshall (the guy at Primary Arms) posted that he is going to spec a new GenII 4x. After that, it will be at least 6 months before availability.

--- On a side note. The PA Micro Dot riser seems a bit high to me. They say it is "proper lower 1/3 co-witness". That may be true but my MBUS are pretty low in the glass. LaRue makes a lower HK mount that fits the PA for absolute co-witness. Cost $98 versus $30 for the PA.

 

[TurboniumOxide]

Larue is pricey stuff, but you get dillo dust with every order.

I have a couple of PA micro dots (gen2 and gen3 with killflash) and an
honest to God Aimpoint H-1 ( on a larue 1oclock QD ) and I can tell you
that the PA micros are very favorably comparable to the 8 times more
expensive H-1.

The PA gen3 is on my shotgun, it takes 3" magnum round recoil and holds
tight to zero. Very impressive.

I am interested in getting the PA Compact 4x for this new 15-22 whenever
it becomes available.

Glass hunting for a new rifle is always fun, and I think that the PA 4X
compact will be comparable to my ACOG (jesus scope) on my .223 AR.

 

[KaiDoi]

Thanks for the replies, folks. I really appreciate it.

I ordered the PA Gen 3 micro dot with kill flash, this morning.

-Andy

 

[idbstyler]

Walther PS 22 Tactical Red Dot

This is a Walther PS 22 Tactical Red Dot Sight 30mm Tube 1x 5 MOA Dot. I got it from MidwayUSA for $67 shipped. I love this red dot. The dot is a little smaller than a 5 MOA. Which i don't mind because it's a little better for longer distances. It has 11 brightness settings. On a bright bright bright! sunny day you might need to use the highest setting. I had it set at 7 most of the day. 1 being not very bright and 11 being the brightest. It co-witnesses with my MBUS. Took me only 5 shots to zero in. I highly recommend this dot for anyone out there looking to spend under a $100.

 

[mikehoncho]

This is a Walther PS 22 Tactical Red Dot Sight 30mm Tube 1x 5 MOA Dot. I got it from MidwayUSA for $67 shipped. I love this red dot. The dot is a little smaller than a 5 MOA. Which i don't mind because it's a little better for longer distances. It has 11 brightness settings. On a bright bright bright! sunny day you might need to use the highest setting. I had it set at 7 most of the day. 1 being not very bright and 11 being the brightest. It co-witnesses with my MBUS. Took me only 5 shots to zero in. I highly recommend this dot for anyone out there looking to spend under a $100.

just wondering, why did you place your optic backwards in the mount? normally, you would place your mount on your receiver, cantilevered forward over the handguard. if you did it that way on purpose i'm just curious to know your reasons.

nice looking rifle.

 

[idbstyler]

It's not backwards. Thats just how the red dot is. It came all put together like that. A lot of guys are switching the mount around, I decided to just put it on like that first. Works for me.

just wondering, why did you place your optic backwards in the mount? normally, you would place your mount on your receiver, cantilevered forward over the handguard. if you did it that way on purpose i'm just curious to know your reasons.

nice looking rifle.

 

[incavulator]

I have a question that I'm hoping someone out there can help me answer.

I'm contemplating picking up a 3-9x40 NC Star Mk 3 scope for my 15-22. All of them I have seen in pictures on this site have been mounted on the top rail with the iron sights removed.

I've read that they sit too low and many have suggested adding a riser.

My question is, does anyone know if it's possible to add a see-through riser under this scope so the iron sights can still be retained and used?

If so, can anyone recommend a particular brand/model?

Thanks for the help!!!

 

[KaiDoi]

Primary Arms 2 MOA Multi-Recticle Red Dot w/ Magnifier

I received my PA multi-recticle red dot / 5x magnifier, this past Monday.

The 2moa red dot is crisp and sharp. I love the recticle with the red dot in the center. The 5x magnifier is a definite plus for these aging eyes. I normally wear trifocals. When shooting, I wear single vision safety shooting glasses. With either pair of glasses, I have no issues with see the target clearly through the magnifier.

This red dot combo also offers an excellent lower co-witness with the Magpul MBUS sights. The red dot is sits right on top of the front post. Now, I just need a PA flip to the side mount to complete this set-up. The flip to the side mount should be available in some 4 to 6 weeks according to PA.

My 2 week old PA gen 3 micro dot now sits on top of my Glock S&W .40 G23.