.38 S&W through a .38 Special bore?

[stantheman86]

I have a Model 10 that was thrashed in it's previous life, the .38 Special cylinder is pitted and has been buffed within an inch of it's life.

I picked up a .38 S&W cylinder,because I could get it for $15, a later model with the same type ratchet as this Model 10, probably for the Model 13.....

I had thought of trying to install the .38 S&W cylinder in the Model 10, would there be any issues with shooting .38 S&W through a .38 Special bore? I've never tried it, I know there is a few .001"'s of a difference, just thought I would get some opinions.

 

[civil1977]

Not sure about your question but I know the Model 13 never came in .38 s&w.....it was .357 magnum.

 

[PH-2]

Stan,

If the replacement cylinder is a 38/200, negative. The bore size differs. The model 13 is a different animal, all together.
Will 38 special rounds chamber in the $15.00 cylinder? If so, the cylinder ratchets will still need fitting on your model 10's hand, to ensure carry-up (timing).

Mike

 

[john traveler]

In answer to your question of firing .38 S&W ammo through .38 Special barrel, no, there is no problem. Commercial .38 S&W ammo is nominally lead bullet stuff at rather sedate velocities. The slightly oversized bullet will swage down in the .38 Special bore with no difficulty. I've fired a couple thousand .38 S&Ws through a re-barreled .38 S&W Victory model.

Now, if you intend to fire some .38-200 FMJ military issue ammo, THAT may present a problem. You could end up with some bullet-stuck-in-the-bore problems. However, that ammo is now in the collector's status, so finding it is problematical.

 

[gbrady]

38 S&W bullets are .360 in Dia. not .357. You could have a pressure problem.

 

[stantheman86]

Sorry, I need to correct myself......not the 13, but the Model 11 Had a brain fart The cylinder is for a Model 11 .38/200. The extractor is a newer type, the rod tightens to the left.

.38 Special does not chamber in the $15 cylinder, in fact I figured if I couldn't use it in the Model 10 I would try to fit it in my beater Victory model using the old ratchet.

Just an idea I was kicking around, just trying to make some use out of some cheap beaters I had laying around. I had planned to just use low powered commercial .38 S&W like Magtech, etc. and use the gun as a low noise, low powered target gun for my backyard. I can get away with the "pop guns" but bigger stuff like .38 +P and 9mm tend to bother the neighbors.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

In addition to all the good advice above you will also need to be sure the cylinder gap is correct when installing any new/used cylinder. Considering a 38 S&W cylinder is shorter than a .38 Special cylinder that might be a chore.

 

[stantheman86]

No, the cylinder is the exact same as the .38 Special cylinder, just bored for .38 S&W. It is from a Model 11, which is more or less a Model 10 in .38 S&W.

 

[Treeman]

gbrady, Actually there isn't likely to be any pressure problem at all. .003 is pretty insignificant in the .357 lead bullet realm. Were you aware that many Colt, .38 special and .357 Magnum barrels are actually bored .354? Additionally the .38 S&W is a lower pressure cartridge than the .38 special.......but S&W treated the cylinders the same for both cartridges. Of course the cylinder walls are perhaps .003 thinner but it isn't a big deal since he is firing the appropriate ammo........ While the CURRENT ownership of S&W doesn't recommend +P in the pre model number M&Ps the S&W of the time authorized 38/44s in them.........and our friend is dealing with model numbered guns with "modern" heat treatment. I wouldn't worry a bit.

 

[stantheman86]

Thanks for the replies and the info, I have the cylinder on the way and hoping for a trouble free fit,so I can get the gun going as a plinker I am also hoping the POI vs. POA isn't all that much lower, the gun was regulated for 158 gr. .38 Special. I may have to rig up some kind of a rear sight for it, if it hits too low.

I was thinking the same thing today, with the .003 in variance in the bore......that it can't make all that much difference with lead round nose bullets, especially a low powered round like .38 S&W. I also plan to use stuff like Ten-X Cowboy ammo, made for the "pocket revolver" category of CAS matches, and so is loaded even lighter for use in old breaktops.

 

[LouisianaMan]

The "fearsome" bore diameter problem associated with the .38 S&W cartridge isn't much of a problem with modern-era S&W revolvers. I've miked a couple of mine at .359, vs. the nominal .357 of a .38 SPL. IIRC, a Colt Police Positive caliber .38 S&W/.38 Colt New Police I owned miked about .355-356, and they handle modern-day ammo fine. The problem arises with older revolvers of various makes, whether British or American. Apparently some have groove diameters in the .363-.365 range.

Speer 13 uses regular .38 SPL bullets and a Smith & Wesson Mod. 33-1 revolver for its .38 S&W recipes. Sizes are .358 for lead and .357 for jacketed bullets. My experience matches theirs: modern commercial .38 SPL bullets will do fine in a modern .38 S&W barrel, such as the S&W Mod. 33-1 Speer used. This is a strong hint that the opposite should work OK, too, i.e. firing .38 S&W ammo thru a .38 SPL barrel. If you can deal with all the issues associated with exchanging cylinders in your gun, you'll find that the bore size will not be a problem. And if you pull some bullets on modern commercial .38 S&W ammo, you'll probably find the bullet diameter is about .356-358 anyway.

I think you're onto something!

 

[Alk8944]

Thanks for the replies and the info, I have the cylinder on the way and hoping for a trouble free fit,so I can get the gun going as a plinker I am also hoping the POI vs. POA isn't all that much lower, the gun was regulated for 158 gr. .38 Special. I may have to rig up some kind of a rear sight for it, if it hits too low.

I was thinking the same thing today, with the .003 in variance in the bore......that it can't make all that much difference with lead round nose bullets, especially a low powered round like .38 S&W. I also plan to use stuff like Ten-X Cowboy ammo, made for the "pocket revolver" category of CAS matches, and so is loaded even lighter for use in old breaktops.

Ignore all the nay-sayers that give such dire warnings of pressure issues shooting .38 S&W through a .38 Spl barrel, simply put, they just don't know what they are talking about!

I would bet very few of them have heard of, or, at least, have any knowledge of the .38 Long Colt. This cartridge was originally designed in the early 1870s for cartridge conversions of the Colt Navy.36 which has a nominal .375 groove diameter. This became the US Service Cartridge, still loaded with a .375 bullet. If anyone has a Model 1902 M&P that has the barrel marking of ".38 Special and US Service Ctgs" this is the cartridge it referred to! The early M&Ps had a nominal .357 groove diameter from the very beginning.

There has never been a warning against shooting .38 Long Colt in a .38 Special revolver, NEVER! If you read the inside if the box lid from any .38 Special S&W revolver from when they still listed acceptable alternate cartridges that can be shot in these guns the .38 Long Colt has always been included in the list.

Now, if a cartridge with a nominally .018 larger bullet is not a problem, then why do so many of you believe that a .003 larger bullet could possibly be a safety issue or detrimental to the revolver?????????????

And, remember, the throats of the cylinder are the issue, if any. By the time the bullet passes through the throat it is now .357/.359 or so, no matter how large it started out, so it is the same diameter when it enters the barrel as any bullet that is soft enough to bump up to throat diameter when fired!

And, Louisianaman's comment: "The "fearsome" bore diameter problem associated with the .38 S&W cartridge isn't much of a problem with modern-era S&W revolvers." Not only is it "not much" of a problem, it is none at all. S&W was making revolvers and recommending the .38 Long Colt cartridge, for approximately 20 years before the cylinders were heat-treated at all, but were made of annealed condition simple carbon steels. Modern steels used since WWII, or shortly after, are stronger in annealed condition than were the earlier steels that S&W used, even when heat-treated.

 

[DWalt]

I've measured many lead bullets from antique .38 S&W rounds, and they usually run .357-.358. Only problem is getting the .38 S&W cylinder to fit and lock up OK. I load .38 S&W with .38 Special bullets, and they work perfectly.

 

[BubbaBlades]

I asked a similar question about shooting .38 specials through a .38 S&W barrel that I have on the above pictured 1930's M&P. I did not get any useful information from my forum post, however, I can tell you from my actual experience that this is one of the most accurate "Model 10s" that I have ever shot.
Mark

 

[LouisianaMan]

Mark,
That's a NICE-looking pistol! Is it a pre-10, or a Regulation Police pre-33? I'm no expert and can't tell.
And just to clarify--you loaded .38 SPL bullets in .38 S&W cases to put thru it, or did you rechamber it to .38 SPL?

 

[austintexas]

I have a pre-war .38 M & P target that was sent to England and the English reamed the cylinder to take .38/200 ammo. I have shot both thru it with no problem except bulged .38 special cases.

SWCA 892