SFCE7
Member
Been doing the open carry in Arizona before there was a CCW requirement here. It is just as normal as baseball in the spring.
Open Carry
- Thread starter Kapture1
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Since I am not a fan of OC, I suppose I would have just had to prevent the robbery of either station, by using my CC gun. I am fairly sure if they survived they wouldn't have went across the street and tried the same foolishness.
cshoff
Member
An incident 30+ years ago with a couple sniveling 18 yo punks? Yeah that proves it.
Nobody ever said it proved anything conclusively, only that the situation is much more consistent with reality than the idea that open carry actually begets crime.
cshoff
Member
Tis' always better to put yourself in a position where you MUST fire your gun at another human being, than to avoid, evade, or deter such a confrontation......................
..................Oh, wait a minute................
photoman
Member
If you're going to second guess your shoot/no shoot decisions and live the rest of your life miserable, you might be better off buying a good pair of running shoes.
Much better, you're welcome
So is that why New York is so free with issuing CCW permits? Y'all want to reduce crime?
I'm quite happy the incident was 30 years ago. I've never willingly placed myself in harms way, though I've occasionally found myself there do to circumstances beyond my control and not of my making. While in the past I have been shot at and used a firearm to defend myself, if I spend the rest of my life having to do neither again I will not feel I missed anything.
cshoff
Member
Much better, you're welcome
Evidence has been cited where open carry has deterred crime. Your reluctance to accept it notwithstanding. Yet throughout this thread, you've consistently made fallacious claims to the contrary without so much as even a link to a poorly written article to back your claims.
So, here is your chance to save face. Cite your sources. Show everyone here the basis for your claims. You've claimed that a person who openly carries is more likely to be targeted for attack than someone who does not. Prove it. You've claimed open carry somehow leads to higher crime rates. Prove it.
I'm willing to bet that A) you can't, and B) you won't.
NY licenses have nothing to do with anything here. I'm surprised it took this long for the NY bashing to begin
Nice try once again, but no cigar, again. I said OC could lead to someone taking your gun. Tell me it can't.
A post was made of an OC'er being attacked and having his weapon taken, that equals ONE story some 30+ year ago. Guess we're even.
So what has this 24 page thread proven? Nothing. No minds have been changed. Everyone who is open carrying will still do it and the same for the CC folks. It could run another 24 pages and the situation wouldn't change.
I admit there are many on this board braver than I and of sterner constitution. There are a few things I've done, not many but a few, that I try not to think about, though occasionally the memories come anyway. Shooting someone who proved not to actually have been a threat would have added to that list. At least for me.
cshoff
Member
Nice try once again, but no cigar, again. I said OC could lead to someone taking your gun. Tell me it can't.
A post was made of an OC'er being attacked and having his weapon taken, that equals ONE story some 30+ year ago. Guess we're even.
I was the one who posted the story of the openly carrying person who was robbed of his gun. Yeah, that's the only verified incident I've seen of an openly carrying armed citizen being targeted. One time.
But let's see if we can find some instances where open carry deterred a crime, shall we?
We can start with the account that walnutred shared with us. I have no reason to doubt his story and am willing to take it at face value.
How about the study conducted by the Dr. Paul Blackman and funded by the Justice Department in 1982/83. They conducted in-depth interviews with over 1800 convicted felons and found that "fear of an armed citizen" was a "significant factor in deterring crime". Is that a large enough sample size for you? NRA-ILA :: The Armed Criminal In America
How about the openly carrying citizens at the Kennesaw, GA Waffle House restaurant that deterred an armed robbery? Open carry deters armed robbery in Kennesaw - Atlanta gun rights | Examiner.com
Then there was the Virginia Citizens Defense League Board Member that deterred a bank robbery with his openly carried firearm: VCDL Board member thwarts bank robber!
Or, if you'd prefer to hear from some felons in their own words, there was this 20/20 report by John Stossel a few years back (the felons are at the 2:45 mark): John Stossel Links Gun Control to Higher Crime Rates - YouTube
Of course, I don't expect you to really accept any of this information as being accurate. That's the thing about people who argue based on emotion; they generally won't allow facts to get in their way. With that said, the above is clear evidence that pretty much invalidates the assertions you've made in this thread. And the sad thing is, none of this should really matter. As gun owners, I would think we would want to show support for the lawfully exercised rights of other gun owners, whether we care to take part in them or not.
And we DO. The divergence occurred when the OC fans claimed that it was a crime deterrent, and those that didn't agree were "liars, unpatriotic, anti-2nd A,blah blah blah". That's just not true.
I'm done with this, go ahead knock yourselves out. I don't open carry and never will except while hunting. You do as you please, God Bless America.
Bringing in NY laws into the equation are total BS. In fact, the bashers should do themselves a favor and look up FBI crime stats. The lowest crime rates in the US are in the liberal northeast. Who'd a thunk it?
Have fun.
cshoff
Member
And we DO. The divergence occurred when the OC fans claimed that it was a crime deterrent, and those that didn't agree were "liars, unpatriotic, anti-2nd A,blah blah blah". That's just not true.
I'm done with this, go ahead knock yourselves out. I don't open carry and never will except while hunting. You do as you please, God Bless America.
Bringing in NY laws into the equation are total BS. In fact, the bashers should do themselves a favor and look up FBI crime stats. The lowest crime rates in the US are in the liberal northeast. Who'd a thunk it?
Nobody ever said you had to open carry, or that anyone else had to open carry for that matter. Heck, I don't even open carry except for maybe a handful of times each year (besides when I'm hunting). But when you try to argue against facts with nothing more than your opinion, and then you stick to your argument as if it will become more valid if you repeat it over and over, I don't know what else you would expect. Spreading misinformation is NOT how we show our support here in the Midwest. I guess things are just different on the East Coast......
photoman
Member
You're probably right. It's impossible to say how we're going to take it after. I should've thought a bit before replying.
I don't believe open carry does much in the way of crime prevention, but if people want to open carry that's fine. The only OC people I really have an issue with are the ones that go looking for trouble to prove some kind of point.
The type that has to video themselves or have they're friend video them while provoking confrontations with police or others, so they can look cool on there youtube type videos and tell other people that they are defending our rights, when all they are doing is making gun owners look like nutcases. For example, this guy who throws his "open carry" AK over his shoulder to go for a walk to intentionally provoke a response, and gets mad when he gets one.
LiveLeak.com - Guy Open Carrying AK-47 Stopped by police
OC people don't want to be hassled by cops, but then you have morons like this provoking a response, then complaining when they get it. What would people say if some nutjob was walking down the street with his AK and went and shot their ex,their boss or someone else? People would be screaming about "why didn't anyone talk to the guy when they saw him".
Or you have people who make a big stink to provoke a response when a store asks them to leave because they don't want them OC'ing in their business, like somehow the OC'ers rights are more important than the store owners. If you don't like a store's policy, vote with your wallet, or write a letter to management and/or the owner.
People can't have it both ways. There are places where OC is normal and accepted, and there are places where OC may be legal,but is far from the norm. If you're going to do it where its not accepted, you are going to get hassled.
The type that has to video themselves or have they're friend video them while provoking confrontations with police or others, so they can look cool on there youtube type videos and tell other people that they are defending our rights, when all they are doing is making gun owners look like nutcases. For example, this guy who throws his "open carry" AK over his shoulder to go for a walk to intentionally provoke a response, and gets mad when he gets one.
LiveLeak.com - Guy Open Carrying AK-47 Stopped by police
OC people don't want to be hassled by cops, but then you have morons like this provoking a response, then complaining when they get it. What would people say if some nutjob was walking down the street with his AK and went and shot their ex,their boss or someone else? People would be screaming about "why didn't anyone talk to the guy when they saw him".
Or you have people who make a big stink to provoke a response when a store asks them to leave because they don't want them OC'ing in their business, like somehow the OC'ers rights are more important than the store owners. If you don't like a store's policy, vote with your wallet, or write a letter to management and/or the owner.
People can't have it both ways. There are places where OC is normal and accepted, and there are places where OC may be legal,but is far from the norm. If you're going to do it where its not accepted, you are going to get hassled.
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