Ohio Police Encounter - Notification

[ladder13]

Check this link:

[Link to other Forum.. but no ding ... Map same as above 10 state list. phil]

Hope I don't get a ding.

 

[hatt]

For those who support notification. Wouldn't having the officer ask be a much more sensible solution? It would avoid all those "I got a gun" moments. And it'd help citizens who aren't thinking about it at the time stay legal. Please explain why asking wouldn't be superior.

 

[oldman45]

No official link to this.. but here is the list of 10 states that I see on different sites. AR, AK,LA,MI,NE,NC,OH,OK,SC,TX

Have you found one that isn't on this list?

Yes sir. CO is not on that list.

I might add I did not find such a law in AR but I was ony scanning their law books.

 

[oldman45]

For those who support notification. Wouldn't having the officer ask be a much more sensible solution? It would avoid all those "I got a gun" moments. And it'd help citizens who aren't thinking about it at the time stay legal. Please explain why asking wouldn't be superior.

Simple. By the time an officer is at the window to ask, the person may have done something stupid in an innocent way. One such person threw the car door open and was yelling he had a gun. But it works both ways. Officers have been shot by bad guys as they approached the window and permitees have pulled their guns to show they have one.

It is best to remain calm and simply say to the officer that you have a CCW and the location of the gun. Above all, do NOT yell or show the gun.

 

[ladder13]

Yes sir. CO is not on that list.

I've checked a few sources/forums, as far as I can tell, Colorado does not require a CCW holder to inform.

 

[cmort666]

Simple. By the time an officer is at the window to ask, the person may have done something stupid in an innocent way. One such person threw the car door open and was yelling he had a gun. But it works both ways. Officers have been shot by bad guys as they approached the window and permitees have pulled their guns to show they have one.

Can you explain how OHIO's notification requirement would make ANY difference in the situations described above?

HOW is someone supposed to inform BEFORE the cop gets to the window??? If he CAN'T, the notification requirement is UTTERLY irrelevant to what you cite.

1. Criminals not only won't notify, the 5th Amendment relieves them of any requirement to do so.
2. My notifying is irrelevant if I'm doing all sorts of foolishness before the cop gets to the car.
3. It is now DEMONSTRATED that notification is subject to the most despicable abuse.

So far, all of your "justifications" are irrelevant and don't in ANY way address the abuse right in front of your eyes.

 

[hatt]

Simple. By the time an officer is at the window to ask, the person may have done something stupid in an innocent way. One such person threw the car door open and was yelling he had a gun. But it works both ways. Officers have been shot by bad guys as they approached the window and permitees have pulled their guns to show they have one.

It is best to remain calm and simply say to the officer that you have a CCW and the location of the gun. Above all, do NOT yell or show the gun.

Sorry, none of your response is a logical reason to have notification. It better shows why notification is silly and dangerous. Citizens can get in trouble trying to comply. I'll ask once again, WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO HAVE THE OFFICER ASK? An officer should be in control of the stop. Isn't the officer well trained to deal with stops? Isn't the officer well trained in giving instructions? Isn't the officer well trained in asking questions? Now all the sudden the officer is incapable of asking one question(WHICH ACCORDING TO YOU IS A VERY PRESSING SUBJECT) and it's left up to the untrained citizen who may have never been in a traffic stop before.

 

[ladder13]

HOW is someone supposed to inform BEFORE the cop gets to the window???

An idea for some entrepreneur...........how about a pop up sign just below the rear glass that you can activate when approached by the police? Could be made of neon for night time use.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

An idea for some entrepreneur...........how about a pop up sign just below the rear glass that you can activate when approached by the police? Could be made of neon for night time use.

I'm thinking a hat with flashing lights... this takes care of vehicle and pedestrian stops.

 

[oldman45]

Sorry, none of your response is a logical reason to have notification. It better shows why notification is silly and dangerous. Citizens can get in trouble trying to comply. I'll ask once again, WHY IS IT SO DIFFICULT TO HAVE THE OFFICER ASK? An officer should be in control of the stop. Isn't the officer well trained to deal with stops? Isn't the officer well trained in giving instructions? Isn't the officer well trained in asking questions? Now all the sudden the officer is incapable of asking one question(WHICH ACCORDING TO YOU IS A VERY PRESSING SUBJECT) and it's left up to the untrained citizen who may have never been in a traffic stop before.

Why ask me that question? Ask those that put it into law in many states. I did not write the laws but only testify to what laws are applicable to the incident. My job is in safety, accident & crime scene reconstruction and investigation as well as serving paper as needed.

Why do some states have gun registration? I would rather have notification than registration and I am sure others here would also.

 

[M29since14]

I'm thinking a hat with flashing lights... this takes care of vehicle and pedestrian stops.

Now you guys are starting to be a little mean...

 

[hatt]

Why ask me that question? Ask those that put it into law in many states. I did not write the laws but only testify to what laws are applicable to the incident. My job is in safety, accident & crime scene reconstruction and investigation as well as serving paper as needed.

Why do some states have gun registration? I would rather have notification than registration and I am sure others here would also.

You were the one defending the practice. That's why I was asking you. If a lawmaker shows up I'll ask him.

I see you really can't answer the deep questions. Maybe you'll evaluate your position further to see that notification is indeed unnecessary and potentially dangerous. If an officer needs to know the best practice is for the officer to ask vs having millions of different ways a citizen will attempt to inform you.

 

[CelticSire]

And we can make it solar powered so it's "green", include a fan for when it's really hot, attach one of those blinky text things like they put in belt buckles and use the solar panel to power it, and...

 

[oldman45]

You were the one defending the practice. That's why I was asking you. If a lawmaker shows up I'll ask him.

I see you really can't answer the deep questions. Maybe you'll evaluate your position further to see that notification is indeed unnecessary and potentially dangerous. If an officer needs to know the best practice is for the officer to ask vs having millions of different ways a citizen will attempt to inform you.

I did answer the question. It is the law. Laws are enforced, right or wrong.

Laws were origially based on biblical principle. Now they are based on need and revenue generation. All lawss create revenue in some way. Need follows public safety and good of the community.

Apparently states are seeing the need in having notification in their laws. A few states started the law with the provision built in. Other states have and are adding it into their law. There are many laws I do not see the need of but they have to be enforced as long as they are on the books. Personally I do not see why any officer would cite anyone for improper backing but they can since it is a law on the books in all states. It also carries a large fine.

I see the good in notification. I would certainly hate to ask people if they are armed because many will lie about it even though they have a permit. If a gun is found on someone, or if they are wrongfully shot after failure to notify, then someone goes to jail and loses the right to carry.

 

[M29since14]

I believe you are treating law-making like some sort of serious process. From what I can tell, most laws are developed by persons who appear to not have the slightest idea what they are trying to do - except possibly the part about "revenue."

"Notification" is stupid and dangerous. If a policeman learns that I have a permit and wants to know if I am armed, all he has to do is inquire. I will gladly follow his instructions (since I have no other choice).

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

OldMan45,

I sometimes struggle to fully understand your positions and do not always agree with them. However, I admire the manner and tone in which you present your thoughts. I have enjoyed the discussion.

 

[blujax01]

I just found that OK requires notification and allows disarming. Out of the four states I have read the law on, three of them require notification and allow disarming.

Now add AK to the list allowing.

Now add CO to the list.

The laws all read similarly in that it allows disarming if deemed necessary. Where most of us have a problem is that apparently some LEO's have taken that to mean that it is always necessary.

You are retired, right?

 

[hatt]

I did answer the question. It is the law. Laws are enforced, right or wrong.

Laws were origially based on biblical principle. Now they are based on need and revenue generation. All lawss create revenue in some way. Need follows public safety and good of the community.

Apparently states are seeing the need in having notification in their laws. A few states started the law with the provision built in. Other states have and are adding it into their law. There are many laws I do not see the need of but they have to be enforced as long as they are on the books. Personally I do not see why any officer would cite anyone for improper backing but they can since it is a law on the books in all states. It also carries a large fine.

I see the good in notification. I would certainly hate to ask people if they are armed because many will lie about it even though they have a permit. If a gun is found on someone, or if they are wrongfully shot after failure to notify, then someone goes to jail and loses the right to carry.

LOL. You're running around all over the place. "It's the law" isn't an answer to any question I've ever asked. And now you're telling me you didn't mind pulling the person over but you'd hate to have to ask them a question.

 

[oldman45]

The laws all read similarly in that it allows disarming if deemed necessary. Where most of us have a problem is that apparently some LEO's have taken that to mean that it is always necessary.

You are retired, right?

Nope. I work 24/7. On call all the time. I now reconstruct crime and accident scenes where serious injury or loss of life takes place. I testify as to what happened, what the law says and what laws may have been broken. Been doing this for longer than I want to admit to and have seen things that never should have happened, many of which involved firearms. I spent three hours Tuesday looking, measuring and photographing a motel fire site where a man lost his hands and feet but still lived. I spent three more hours diagraming the area and putting 201 photos on CD. Then another 2 hours writing a report that I kept rewriting in order to make things crystal clear to anyone that reads it, all four typewritten pages of it.

I retired in 1988 but kept being called back to testify in cases that I did years earlier or else called to look at things that others did not have experience with. I saw I could not live on a third of what I already could not live on so I returned to work as asked. Retired again in 1999 but, again was asked to work for LEA across the country and found myself going to a lot of states to look at scenes so I went back to work. Now I do it as a consultant to several agencies as needed, routinely for six court districts and about a dozen attorneys and insurance companies as well as sit on a few advisory boards. Then I serve paper when need be.

 

[blujax01]

That's some serious bona fides. Sounds like you are taken seriously when and where you are called to consult. I admire your work, we just disagree on this point. We cool?