Concealed carry at church?

[Springfeildkid585]

Fascinating (as Spock would say).

Spock - Fascinating! - YouTube

Seriously, it is interesting that a pastor would tolerate something that he doesn't (morally?) agree with.

We had already received approval from the board to use youth funds on it. There's not really much he can do about it. Our pastor doesn't wield the power to stop us. We don't ask him permission, we ask the board.

 

[oldman45]

I got to say it. Been trying to resist but many here feel gun ownership is a Right and along with that the Right to Carry.

I agree with this.

However, the United Methodist Church does not think a civilian has the right to own guns and has sent a letter pleading to Congress to ban private ownership of guns.

Rather than shooting rapists, it is women`s Christian duty to submit to rape, according to an article by Reverend Allen Brockway, editor of the official magazine of the Board of Church and Society of the United Methodist Church. He poses the rhetorical question, "Is the Robber My Brother?" and Reverend Brockway answers, "Yes."

They also feel a man should not harm intruders.

Other denominations are also aligned with this position. I am not being negative toward any religion. Simply stating fact. If someone, some group or body of people had a certain belief that was being forced upon the rest of us, we would write letters, make calls and such. I do not see any organized protest against denominations.

Again, this is not a religious post and not meant to inflame but rather inform.

 

[keith44spl]

Well we all know some folks don't like firearms, they don't like the uses of firearms and they don't care much for folks that own or use 'em.

I just recently visited a small southern Baptist church where they sponsored a youth and young adult shooting and hunting program.
Their first concealed carry class had about 30 of the congregation and neighbors in attendance.

To those in the clergy, I say, "It's not what's on a man's hip...It's what's in his heart that counts."


Just from where I'm standin'...

Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[Springfeildkid585]

I got to say it. Been trying to resist but many here feel gun ownership is a Right and along with that the Right to Carry.

I agree with this.

However, the United Methodist Church does not think a civilian has the right to own guns and has sent a letter pleading to Congress to ban private ownership of guns.

Rather than shooting rapists, it is women`s Christian duty to submit to rape, according to an article by Reverend Allen Brockway, editor of the official magazine of the Board of Church and Society of the United Methodist Church. He poses the rhetorical question, "Is the Robber My Brother?" and Reverend Brockway answers, "Yes."

They also feel a man should not harm intruders.

Other denominations are also aligned with this position. I am not being negative toward any religion. Simply stating fact. If someone, some group or body of people had a certain belief that was being forced upon the rest of us, we would write letters, make calls and such. I do not see any organized protest against denominations.

Again, this is not a religious post and not meant to inflame but rather inform.

Can you provide a link to this information? I do not doubt it, however; as a United Methodist, I am quite angry to hear that someone has claimed to speak for the church as a whole on the matter. I know several firearms enthusiasts, owners and carriers in my own congregation.

 

[CelticSire]

Can you provide a link to this information? I do not doubt it, however; as a United Methodist, I am quite angry to hear that someone has claimed to speak for the church as a whole on the matter. I know several firearms enthusiasts, owners and carriers in my own congregation.

I would also like to know where an individual claims the right to speak for the United Methodist Church. If the good Reverend Brockway did make such statements, he is in direct contradiction to the Book of Discipline which is the collective guiding principles and official position of the UMC. It may be his opinion, but it is NOT the position of the United Methodist Church!

 

[Cocked & Locked]

Here's a NRA link with some UMC & Rev. Brockway info mentioned down the page...

NRA-ILA :: Gun Control=Gun Prohibition

 

[oldman45]

Can you provide a link to this information? I do not doubt it, however; as a United Methodist, I am quite angry to hear that someone has claimed to speak for the church as a whole on the matter. I know several firearms enthusiasts, owners and carriers in my own congregation.

Sure;
http://www.gcorr.org/atf/cf/{9412EE...77}/Statement_SupremeCourt_Handgun_Ruling.pdf

Please note that the site shows it on the UMC letterhead.

You can google "Is the Robber My Brother?" using the quotation marks and Allen Brockway about the rape remark.

It should also be mentioned that if someone submits, as suggested by the UMC it becomes consensual and therefore not a crime.

 

[oldman45]

I would also like to know where an individual claims the right to speak for the United Methodist Church. If the good Reverend Brockway did make such statements, he is in direct contradiction to the Book of Discipline which is the collective guiding principles and official position of the UMC. It may be his opinion, but it is NOT the position of the United Methodist Church!

Actually it is the position of the UMC. They are the ones that began Coalition to Stop Gun Violence and calling on Congress to ban private gun ownership. I assure you the UMC is against guns and all their pastorial leaders has to take the stand of the Church.

Please fully read the following links:

Gun Violence

Gun Control

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To quote wikipedia: In 1974, the United Methodist General Board of Church and Society formed the National Coalition to Ban Handguns,[1] a group of thirty religious, labor, and nonprofit organizations with the goal of addressing "the high rates of gun-related crime and death in American society" by licensing gun owners, registering firearms, and banning private ownership of handguns with "reasonable limited exceptions" for "police, military, licensed security guards, antique dealers who have guns in unfireable condition, and licensed pistol clubs where firearms are kept on the premises."[2][3] In the 1980s and 1990s, the coalition grew to 44 member groups.[4] In 1989, the National Coalition to Ban Handguns changed its name to the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, in part because the group felt that "assault rifles" as well as handguns, should be outlawed.[5] Today, the coalition comprises 48 member organization.

So it is the position of the UMC and they say they speak for their 11 million members.

 

[oldman45]

AGAIN, I am not against any church

I am not being anti church, anti denomination this is not a thread against churches or people's faith. This is a gun forum and all I am doing is disussing those against gun ownership and carry. We do the same thing when it comes to politicians, businesses and groups that take a public stand against guns.

The only reason I mentioned this in the first place was due to some talk of guns and churches.

 

[celticfisherman]

Wait a sec... The UMC has a guiding principal?

 

[oldman45]

I am not Methodist, Lutheran or Presbyterian but I could easily be in a congregation sitting under an anti gun denomination. So what are the options?

Change to another denomination?

Petition the Church to change it's stand?

Educate the Church Board?

Stop attending?

Continue supporting the Church with your money, time and talents?

Just wondering.

 

[P&R Fan]

I was previously aware of the United Methodist OFFICIAL stand against guns. I capitalize the word "official" to make a point. That point is just because the denomination states that, that does not mean the membership necessarily all agrees, or practices those beliefs. I am not a Methodist. I was raised in a GARBC Baptist church and God got me into a Pentecostal one when I was about 19, where I still am today. I consider my self a Bapticostal. In the church I was raised in and the one I go to now, 30 or 40 years ago everybody knew the people who went to those churches never drank, smoked, listened to rock music, danced (or DAYNCED, as they pronounced it), had premarital sex, went to movies or did drugs. With the exception of the drugs, I have done all of the others at some time in my life, and still do some today. (Not gonna say which ones, so don't ask). These beliefs were the OFFICIAL beliefs of the church, however, a whole lot of church goings folks did this stuff with regularity.
I'm sure the Methodist leaders may stand by these beliefs. That does not mean all the Methodists are going to agree.
I think we can thank God for that one.
Jim

 

[Joni_Lynn]

My pastor started what appeared to be an anti gun conversation with me tonight and it didn't go very far. I may not be attending there much longer.

 

[Kanewpadle]

I know several United Methodist who own guns and shoot regularly.

 

[mpi]

I'm a minister of the Gospel and i carry every day regardless of my duties!

 

[Springfeildkid585]

Actually it is the position of the UMC. They are the ones that began Coalition to Stop Gun Violence and calling on Congress to ban private gun ownership. I assure you the UMC is against guns and all their pastorial leaders has to take the stand of the Church.

Please fully read the following links:

Gun Violence

Gun Control

Coalition to Stop Gun Violence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

To quote wikipedia: In 1974, the United Methodist General Board of Church and Society formed the National Coalition to Ban Handguns,[1] a group of thirty religious, labor, and nonprofit organizations with the goal of addressing "the high rates of gun-related crime and death in American society" by licensing gun owners, registering firearms, and banning private ownership of handguns with "reasonable limited exceptions" for "police, military, licensed security guards, antique dealers who have guns in unfireable condition, and licensed pistol clubs where firearms are kept on the premises."[2][3] In the 1980s and 1990s, the coalition grew to 44 member groups.[4] In 1989, the National Coalition to Ban Handguns changed its name to the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence, in part because the group felt that "assault rifles" as well as handguns, should be outlawed.[5] Today, the coalition comprises 48 member organization.

So it is the position of the UMC and they say they speak for their 11 million members.

It's funny, they seemed to leave that out in my confirmation class. The reason I chose the denomination was for the "live and let live" nature of it all. I plan to call a meeting with my minister on the matter upon my return home. I know it won't change much, but as a member, I have the voting rights and believe it needs to be addressed at the next conference.

 

[Reggie Dunlop]

My philoshophy?
Don't tell, don't ask.
And
If I have clothes on I have a gun.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

Some years back I was a member/ordained elder/board member/president of the local church in a large mainstream denomination when the national office issued a call for members to remove "assault weapons" and "handguns" from their homes. I complied every Sunday, showing up for worship services with a holstered handgun and slung AR15, M1 Carbine, or other handy items from my collection (I resisted the temptation to add fixed bayonets). Question: "Why are you carrying that?". Answer: "Because our church told me to get it out of my house".

The denomination made its point. I made my point.

Same "church" started issuing bulletins on how members should vote in general elections, engaged in other political activities illegal for a not-for-profit organization, campaigned openly against a state referendum for removing tax-exempt status for church property, conducted gay marriage ceremonies (without benefit of either state law permitting such or church law allowing such), and celebrated the October Revolution (creating the Soviet Union) as the true beginning of "social justice".

Membership of that "church" has declined by more than half in the last decade, including my resignation of membership/ordination/offices, which I did openly during a regular service including an explanation of why I was leaving. About 1/3 of the congregation followed me out to the parking lot to thank me for speaking out.

It is interesting to note how many of the well-known denominations maintain lobbying offices in Washington, DC. How would they respond if the government tried to influence church polity? Can you say "Separation of church and state" louder than I can say "Partisan political activity by a 501-C non-profit religious organization"?

Now I'm just another unapologetic Christian, trying to live the life. Those that want to believe that the First Amendment can stand without the Second Amendment are free to delude themselves into tyranny, but I choose not to walk with them into the darkness.

 

[chuck-ia]

Wow, interesting that the UMC is against guns. Had a preacher about 10 years ago who was an avid deer hunter, (methodist), yes he did use a gun. I belong to the UMC, I would guess most of the members have guns. chuck

 

[photoman]

Those that want to believe that the First Amendment can stand without the Second Amendment are free to delude themselves into tyranny, but I choose not to walk with them into the darkness.

Amen brother.

I sure do like my non-denominational church.