New scenarios for those that carry and using a weapon isn't always the answer..

[sirrduke2010]

1. You are carrying you weapon on the outside in few view in a holster and a man confronts you at 10 ft. away with a hunting knife. He is quite angry with you. He rushes you with the knife raised and you would:

a. pull your firearm and shoot the guy.
b. step to the side and his forward momentum will carry him to the other side and then shoot him.
c. run and if isolated run toward people yelling fire.
d. run and when you have gotten to a safe distance pull your weapon and fire.
e. go to the ground after you have drawn your weapon and shoot the guy from the ground.

There are two scenarios that are the best for survival.

2. You are a woman with a gun in a purse or even a gun in your holster that you carry and a man confronts you at ten feet away with a knife that is a dagger. He says give me your money and you respond by:

a. You pull your gun out of your purse or holster, sound a panic alarm and then the robber charges you.
b. you take out a money clip with some dollars in it and throw it to the left as you run the other direction.
c. you tell the robber that are armed with a gun in your purse or on your hip and if he doesn't walk away you will shoot him.
d. You pull the gun out of the purse or out of your holster and as you go to aim it and the guy charges with the knife raised, saying he is going to kill you.
e. You attract attention by yelling about the robber as you pull out a gun out of your purse or visible holster and when you start to yell the robber charges you will his knife raised.

Which scenario gives you the best chance of survival.

3. You are a pregnant woman in your car. You are at 8 months. The robber puts a knife to her throat and said give me your car. You would:

a. sound a panic alarm and give the robber attention.
b. pull your gun from you purse and shoot him.
c. tell him you are going to give up the car, give him the keys, and move out of the car.
d. try to start up and drive away.
e. try to disarm the robber's knife.

This scenario happened with one of the answers as a choice that the woman made. I will tell the results of the car jack attempt later.

 

[jlrhiner]

How old are you?

 

[sirrduke2010]

What does that have to do with the questions? Here is the thing there are some that think that the only way to resolve an issue is to pull your weapon and shoot and unfortunately that can make you dead as well if it isn't at the right time. Self defense is more than just having a weapon on your hip or having a CCW and having a gun concealed. Unfortunately for some that carry they see it as a security blanket which is partly true but unless you think about what you can under specific situations do you can become deceased. Having a plan before hand can save your life when you are in the thick of things.

I have had a self defense instructor who was a knife expert and instructed police departments on how to handle the knife. Instead of asking how old I am how would you handle the three scenarios so one can end up alive instead of dead. Just on another note an officer could handle the situation the same way a non-police person would.

 

[jlrhiner]

No insult intended. Your questions seem to have a level of over-thinking that borders on fantasy. Carrying a firearm to aid in your personnal defense is really not subjective. You are either prepared to defend yourself (with or without a weapon) or your not. All the intrinsic decisions you pose to make before or during a situation will get you killed.

I don't have to "take" a beating. I don't have to feel threatened. I don't have to surrender ground to an aggressor.

I've already made those decisions. The OP question; "Somebody comes at you with a knife". He's dead due to gunshot wounds. He made the choice.

 

[johnsonl]

Bearing in mind that 21 feet is about the distance a normal person can cover in the time it takes a trained shooter to draw and deploy a handgun effectively:
1. B. He's too close for you to draw and shoot; sidestep him and draw after he passes you, then shoot if you need to.
2. D. See above, if you decide to resist the robbery. Since most of us carry our gun close to our wallet, tell him that you'll comply and draw your handgun.
3. C. Give him the car. Surviving is more important than your car.

 

[Sprefix]

A million things can happen, BUT,

enter knife, angry man, poor decision to rush me.............Man dead or very soon will be. One story. And I live.............Here is MY thinking..........As soon as you think of seven hundred nine million scenarios, the one you didn't think of will happen. It is not my business if the "attacker" is drunk, high, mentally deficient, thinks I'm the guy bedding his wife, the guy that got his job, or cut him off in traffic!!! His poor decisions will very likely get him killed, as my BS meter for stupidity and encroachment on my personal space pegs in .02 nano seconds!! I'm not gun happy and "waiting" to use my firearm. I'm actually very laid back and easy to get along with. I pray to the good Lord above that I NEVER have to pull my gun or take someones life to protect my own. But make no mistake......I can and WILL and will feel little remorse as it was THEIR decision and not mine. My life is very important to me and I aim(pun intended) to stay around here for some time yet. I need to buy more Smith and Wessons, for heavens sake..........

 

[cwo4uscgret]

I've skimmed through your posts and I see a recurring theme through most of them - the question about how to handle a certain scenario...

My answer to them all would be: that depends on the situation; and no two situations are identical.

 

[sirrduke2010]

Yes and no. Every scenario where the attacker is closer than 21 feet with a knife outstretch and is charging to attack would be same. At 10 feet before you can get the gun out of the hostler you probably would be dead or have a knife plunged into your chest. The pregnant woman with a knife was a true story and she and her baby died for hitting the panic alarm. The car thief plunged a knife into her stomach area to kill her and the baby.

 

[Armed Babysitter]

No insult intended. Your questions seem to have a level of over-thinking that borders on fantasy.

sirrduke2010 does seem to spend an overtly large amount of time thinking of "What do you do if..." scenarios instead of focusing on fundamentals. Train to draw, train to aim, train to shoot, train to fight off an attack, and train to escape, evade, and survive. The rest is just details that will play out in an unpredictable fashion.

From personal experience, if/when the day comes when you need to draw your weapon, you will default to your level of training, not rise to the occasion, contrary to popular belief. The gun will be out of the holster and on target slower than in your training, because we have now added a real threat and stress that training can't provide. It can be simulated, but not recreated.

Scenarios acted out in training classes/range trips can be good for eliminating training scars or problems that only manifest when acted out instead of being thought about. To make up highly detailed scenarios in your mind and how you will react is pointless, because as Sprefix pointed out, you can't prepare for them all and the one you didn't practice for will likely be the one that happens.

Learning to see the SHTF before it does is a much harder skill to learn than how to shoot a pistol or ward off an attack by a pregnant soccer mom in a minivan. Situational awareness, avoidance, and escape are your first line of defense whether you are armed or not. Going to the gun is the last option, not the first.

You need to train for the things that you will have to do if attacked while you're armed and avoidance/escape is no longer an option, like getting your cover garment out of the way, your gun out of the holster, the sights on target, and whether or not a squeeze of the trigger is necessary.

sirrduke2010, I recommend saving your pennies and going to a defensive pistol class taught by someone reputable, something in the 2-4 day range. It will open your eyes as to what is important, what you need to work on, what you have no clue about, what you're totally wrong about, and what is far less important in the grand scheme of things to focus on.

Have a safe day.

 

[amazingflapjack]

sirduke-as I have said in response to your scenario questions before, they have the feel of a college research assignment. As I read the responses above, it appears that you have "tapped out" what ever resource you had here. Flapjack.

 

[sirrduke2010]

You know I thought it was valuable information but the consensus appears that if you have gun you are well protected which is false. If you are jumped and mugged you probably won't have the time to get to your gun before you are unconscious. I see the wisdom by some, but not everyone, as if I carry a gun I am invincible which I don't believe and there isn't any scenario I can't defeat which I also don't believe. I haven't even discussed the possibility that the wounded attacker isn't stopped by the gunshot wound or you are mugged by unseen attackers. I guess I waste my time with this. It is easy to shoot at a silhouette target because it isn't charging you with a knife in hand or firing back but to shoot a real person is quite different. An attacker isn't going to sit still while you are firing at him or pulling out a gun and if he or she is crazy enough will just charge you. Some of our best teachers are the experiences of others that has happened in the past. I didn't mention that the women in the car that was pregnant was stabbed repeatedly and arrived at the hospital DOA. Cooperating, giving up your money, and/or fleeing may be your best defense even though you are armed. Situations can go differently but if the odds are against you when trying to pull a weapon and your best defense may not include pulling a weapon at that time. Maybe a little later. What some people forget is your objective in self defense is to survive and not just being able to pull your weapon and shoot the bad guy. Of course if the time and opportunity are right you can shoot an assailant to defend yourself.

 

[sirrduke2010]

Since I have so many attackers who don't even try to answer the questions and just attack what I say it makes me think they are unable to answer these questions and just use their attacks to cloud the real issue is that some people may not know how to answer the questions. As another person has mentioned at 21 ft is considered a safe distance to draw your firearm so at 10 feet or less away is it still safe to draw your when somebody is coming at you with a knife and the answer is probably not. If you know one fact it can affect how you respond. Again self defense is about survival and not all about being able to draw your firearm and shoot. One day you may not have a gun and then what do you do if you are threatened. How about if there is a gang and all of them are armed then what do you do if you have one firearm? Are you going to shoot it out with the gang if you are alone? What makes the criminal so successful and that is they have a plan so shouldn't you.

 

[Armed Babysitter]

sirrduke, you've missed the point of the criticism entirely. You seem to focus on unpredictable variables in your many scenario threads, while overlooking fundamentals.

I agree, just standing at a 10 yard line shooting paper targets is great for engraining the fundamentals of marksmanship, but it is far from ideal defensive training, but it beats the fantasy type scenarios that people run through their head.

I mean no disrespect, but your posts and threads make me guess that you are very young and/or new to carrying a weapon.

 

[MaximumLawman]

How old are you?

Haahaaa, you beat me to it....

PS...the answer to all your questions is "Talk the other person out of it and nobody gets hurt".

 

[dogtag]

There is a minimum of 21 feet distance between you and a knife weilding man or woman. 21 feet is the very minimum that you ever want to be from a knife. I forgot where I learned this, most likely information when I was working Ca. Dept. of Corrections.

 

[cwo4uscgret]

Perhaps you as well didn't understand my comment so I will be a bit more clear and concise with it.

I am a trained professional; I get paid to carry a pistol and I have recurring quarterly training in how to deal with certain scenarios.

I can assure you, as others have, that each situation, while similar in appearance, more then likely will be different. Take the knife wielding bad guy: 21 (now maybe 30) feet can be very deadly. You more then likely will be cut; training doctrine teaches us to create space and distance by moving...off-line; there is a whole lot more you can do - especially if your life is on the line but answering "what if scenarios" is not going to help you to survive the situation.

Tragically that knife wielding subject is not going to be 20-30 feet away; more then likely they will be within hand shake range. Then what are you going to do?

The most important thing for anyone is mindset. During 30 years in the military (including armed law enforcement operations) and 8 years as a Federal LEO on the border my number 1 priority is to go home, safe and uninjured at the end of the day; number 2 priority is to do my absolute best to make sure my fellow officers do the same thing...

Hands can kill you; if you ever watch COPS or some other LE reality show notice how the officers control the hands. If I can see your hands I know what you're doing; if I don't control your hands I am inviting disaster.

Here's a disclaimer; call it that if you want; Scenario/What if discussions, arm chair quarterbacking; are nothing more then jousting at windmills ala Don Quioxte...the key is practice, practice, practice...

The best second response to your questions is find a good defensive tactics trainer and train.

The most important thing (oops I forgot to finish) is a proper mind set coupled with training.

 

[venomballistics]

sirrduke, you've missed the point of the criticism entirely. You seem to focus on unpredictable variables in your many scenario threads, while overlooking fundamentals.

I agree, just standing at a 10 yard line shooting paper targets is great for engraining the fundamentals of marksmanship, but it is far from ideal defensive training, but it beats the fantasy type scenarios that people run through their head.

I mean no disrespect, but your posts and threads make me guess that you are very young and/or new to carrying a weapon.

more to the point .. unlikely variables.
it is not likely that we will be jumped by a gang. we know better than to roll in da hood.
it is unlikely that we will face a knife charge. most training methods of late open with situational awareness. a career criminal will prefer the individual whos nose is stuck in his IPhone oblivious to his world, he's easy.
what are the odds of a knife charge anyhow? I mean if thats your environment, you need to find a new one.

 

[amazingflapjack]

moral responsibility...

When I possess knowledge in a certain area, it is morally incumbent upon me to respond to that knowledge in the appropriate manner, given the situation in question. As far as our society, and the world in general, when it comes to the possibility of violent acts, I know that the only proper moral response for me is to be armed, preferably with a firearm. I stepped up to this weighty responsibility because my life experiences made it undeniably clear that these things were likely to happen anywhere, and at any time. So in response, I could not carry a police officer or other law enforcement official around with me, nor was it fair to expect one of them, or some other citizen, to "take responsibility" for the acts of violence that I may encounter as I went about my lawful business. The truth that I came to fully accept is that this is a fallen world that includes individuals that, for what ever reason, will perpetrate violent acts on otherwise innocent individuals, whoever they may be. I know that this is the truth, so it is my responsibility to act in accordance with that knowledge that I have accepted as fact.

Sirduke-your many questions, posed as scenarios, demonstrate to me that you have not come to the place in your life where you have embraced this truth that I have accepted as reality. As such, you seem tentative as to your own reactions in these many scenarios. I got this impression from your last post, where you came out from behind your "chalk board" so to speak. You had to have noticed that some of those that responded to your latest questions have extensive experience in areas that would qualify them as authorities, if not experts, in the situations you suggest. One of the nice things about a forum like this is that you can remain as anonymous as you like. So, why not just put your questions, doubts, and/or fears out there. I believe you will gain some real insight into the subject at hand, but more importantly, you could gain some real insight as to where you are in all of this. And that is the most important question you could get an answer to, in my view.

When my wife and I made the decision to go armed, we prayed, and we told the Lord that it was our desire to never have to use our guns against another human being, but that, if we had to, that He would power us to use them effectively. Flapjack.

 

[old curmudgeon]

I think all of the replies making fun of the OP are missing the point.

The point is that if the BG is 21 ft away or less when you first realize what is happening, you will never draw in time so if you are in that situation, you had better have a better idea.

I don't have the link, but there was a video in which a woman who appeared to be very well trained in handling her weapon and a big man with a toy knife did a demo.

Three times he rushed her and stabbed her with the toy knife before she could get the pistol up to a fire position.

Three times she failed even though she knew ahead of time what was coming.

Also Ayoob had a chapter on knives in one of his books. He said that if a guy is holding a knife with the stabbing grip, that is one thing. If he is holding with the blade in his fingers or with the handle in his fingers, he is going to throw it and that a skilled knife thrower can split a penny at 21 ft. Don't hesitate with him, shoot him.

So the posters who post "pull a knife on me and you are dead" are the ones who are fantasizing.

You might stop him and you might not. Probably less than 50 - 50 that you will.

On another thread, there is the story of a cop who got stabbed by a guy he was chasing down, an auto chase, and even knowing that he was chasing a really bad guy, he got stabbed before he could draw. It is pretty hard to ram and end up closer than 21 ft., but the guy got to him.

He never did shoot the guy, his backup shot and killed the BG.

Yes, the real hope we have is that we are careful to be SA and be one jump ahead of bad guys.

But then some of the worst criminals look like they are on the way to church. A BG like that can easily get within 6 ft.

Not all are in saggy pants and dread locks.

As for the woman who got stabbed in the car jacking, she broke rule #1 which is always keep the windows up and always lock the door immediately upon entering the vehicle.

And always be very careful not to enter your vehicle with a stranger close by. Wait to see him enter his or if he is walking by, let him get well past.

By the way, I did not get the impression that he was asking what he should do in those scenarios.

My impression is that he was asking what you guys would do and some of you fell into the trap of "if he pulls a knife on me, BANG BANG".

Maybe and maybe not.

A good knife story.

Bobby Kennedy was determined to put Jimmy Hoffa in prison. I remember one of the trials was in Chattanooga, TN.

Some guy sneaked a pistol into the courtroom and as Hoffa walked close to him, drew it to kill him.

Hoffa charged him and knocked him out cold.

Someone made the comment to him that he was really brave to charge a guy with a pistol.

I don't remember the exact words, as this all happened 50 years ago but basically Hoffa said "You learn on the street to run from a man with a knife, but you run towards a man with a gun. You can.t outrun a bullet."

Not bad advice.

 

[dogtag]

As a Corrections Officer you are pretty much screwed when you walk in that day and, you have a 50/50 chance of making it a good day. What helps you survive many knife situations are communication and your training, I always watched the hands, eyes, body language and got to know the inmates and who was acting differantly than what they normally do. Knowing people and what makes crowds more dangerous and how you carry yourself. I believe knowledge of the criminal is good intel and staying vigilant of your surroundings in a prison or street invironment. The prison was priceless knowledge that I apply everyday on the streets.