Serious IL questions and opinions.....

[stantheman86]

Admin Edit-
I'm impressed. This thread has 13 posts, and is a very reasonable.
My compliments.
This subject has validity and I have no problem with reasonable discussion.
Enjoy the thread as long as it stays that way.
Lee J
_______________________________________


This is not a post designed for starting a flame war or debate........I am well aware that many people hate the Internal Lock and I am not looking for an "I hate the IL" thread.

I have serious questions and was looking for a general consensus.......

Does anyone actually use the lock? I do, I live in a house with 2 young children, and when I need to put my 64-7 away for a short period of time, without locking it up in the safe i.e. home for a couple hours, taking a shower and running back out, etc. I make use of the IL on the unloaded gun.

I unload the revolver, put the rounds somewhere else, keep my speed strips in the same spot as the rounds in a locked drawer, and lock the gun with the IL for "extra" safety. Sure, I dislike the IL as much as anyone else, but I figure if it's there, why not use it. In the .0001% chance a kid finds one of my .38's, puts it in the 64-7 that's hidden in the house in a bag 7 feet up on a shelf, the gun still won't fire. When I am home for the day, I lock the gun up in a safe. But the IL does serve a purpose. Again, I have plenty of non-IL S&W's but use the 64-7 often as a carry piece, and might as well make use of the lock.

I won't get into any "what if" or legality questions here, I was also wondering about using guns with removed or de-activated IL's as CC and HD guns, but opinions differ wildly on this so I won't get into that here.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

There was a time when I would have used the IL, but it was many years before S&W or even Taurus made one. I would have used it when hanging up my overcoat when visiting my parents' house (after a quick visit to the little boys' room to engage the lock). Nowadays, I have better ways of carrying concealed and don't have to disarm.

My state has pretty strict laws on storage, and while I do not care for the state's imposing their slightly unreasonable standards on other folks, I actually happen to agree with the state's standards for my own situation. In fact, I'm just barely stricter. The IL does not meet state standards.

If you check the cylinder for full rotation every time you load the gun, you will not accidentally leave the gun locked.

 

[Tyrod]

I'm of a different mind. I taught my kid and now grandkids to respect firearms. I took the curiosity factor away by taking them shooting at a very early age. My daughter shot her first .22 when she was two years old. Of course, she was in my lap and I had hold of the gun. I took her a few times after that, but she never quite got into it so to speak. My grandson on the other hand, took to like a duck to water. Now he's 21 and an Eagle Scout. That's not to say I acted foolishly and left loaded guns all over the house. The law in Florida doesn't prohibit loaded guns in the house, but it does provide for severe sanctions if a kid under 16 is involved with a shooting.

In today's world, I'd have to reconsider my tactics if there were small children around. So, on that note, I have no need for a lock. I regret having to pay for it though.

 

[photoman]

There are much better ways of securing the gun at your home than using the lock. The single gun "safe" that can be opened by combination buttons on top is probably the best way in my opinion.

After researching the subject, I have come to the conclusion that the factory lock is not reliable and should not be trusted on a self defense gun.

 

[BenR]

If a gun isn't holstered on my person, it's locked in my safe. I have never engaged a firearm's internal lock. I never leave firearms unattended, and I would sooner take a moment to secure the revolver in my safe than engage its internal lock.

I taught my son some very important gun-safety rules. As a result, he's very respectful of firearms and knows what to do if he's at a friend's house and sees a firearm sitting out. We practice the rules all the time, at home and at the gun shops, and the rules apply whether he sees something that looks a real gun or a toy.

I've never raised my voice when discussing firearms with him, and I've never discouraged his curiosity in them. In other words, all of our interactions related to guns and gun safety have been very positive. When he said he wanted to see some shooting, I took him to an indoor range and let him watch from behind the bulletproof windows. He got to see what he wanted. Minutes later, he told me he was bored.

I let him look in the display cases at the gun shop and pick out the guns he thinks look cool. I ask the folks behind the counter to take out the ones he likes, everyone checks to make sure they're unloaded, and then I hold the guns in my hand, one at a time, to let him see them up close. He's still a bit young to handle them confidently, and I won't risk having guns that don't belong to me being damaged. His curiosity is satisfied, and checking out each gun comes at the price of having to recite and act out the gun-safety rules I've taught him each time.

 

[18DAI]

If one truly needs an internal lock to keep ones handgun secure from children, or any other party, perhaps one should reconsider the entire concept of gun ownership. Guns should always be secured/stored around children. In most states, including NC there are laws in place to enforce this - and punish those who don't - whos irresponsibility often causes tradgedies.

Myself and my siblings grew up in a home full of firearms - some loaded. We didn't touch any of them - without permission - and the loaded ones were secured in a safe. I used my handcuffs, run through the trigger guard and behind the hammer for years. S&W then included a cable lock and later a Masterlock trigger lock with my purchases. That worked fine if one didn't own a safe....or handcuffs.

Ammunition is ALWAYS stored seperately and under lock and key. I store mine in steel fire safe boxes.

I think the internal lock and many of the "product safety" devices foisted upon the buying public are nothing more than physical indicators of the nanny state that liberals love so well.

Won't be foisted upon me though. I don't buy their products.

As far as legal problems for removing the lock, I don't see it. By the manufacturers own admission this idiotic device is not a "safety", it is a "safe storage device", albeit one operated by a universal key. More "innovative" genious there.

A good shoot is a good shoot. Sure lawyers and over zealous prosecutors abound. But being S&W made nice lock free revolvers in the past, I think you have a prima facia case that this poorly designed lock was a liability on a self defense gun and you wisely removed it. Your rationale for buying such a gun in the first place is what I would question. My 0.02 Regards 18DAI

 

[Tyrod]

There are much better ways of securing the gun at your home than using the lock. The single gun "safe" that can be opened by combination buttons on top is probably the best way in my opinion.

After researching the subject, I have come to the conclusion that the factory lock is not reliable and should not be trusted on a self defense gun.

No disrespect Photoman, I value your opinion greatly. Is there a thread here that might begin to quantify actual problems with the locks. IIRC, I've seen one thread or an entry in someone else thread that said they had a failure of some sort.

Or is this a case of "well my second cousin twice removed once heard of a guy that was related to another guy that hear about someone else that had some sort of problem".

Maybe I'll start a poll.

 

[diamonback68]

The law in Florida doesn't prohibit loaded guns in the house, but it does provide for severe sanctions if a kid under 16 is involved with a shooting.

Tyrod, you better read FL Statute 790.174 again.
The minor doesn't have to be involved in a shooting.

If a minor (16) is not your child under your supervision or a parent of any other child is not present under their supervision is in your house, your guns must be secured in a locked box or container.

When my minor grandkids visit, all my guns are unloaded and locked in the safe. Such a minor inconvenience.

 

[Tyrod]

Tyrod, you better read FL Statute 790.174 again.
The minor doesn't have to be involved in a shooting.

If a minor (16) is not your child under your supervision or a parent of any other child is not present under their supervision is in your house, your guns must be secured in a locked box or container.

When my minor grandkids visit, all my guns are unloaded and locked in the safe. Such a minor inconvenience.

I stand corrected about the exact verbage of the law. However, I'm pretty sure no one has ever been prosecuted under the law either.

 

[oldafsp]

I thought long and hard about this before posting.

We raised 5 wonderful kids. With both of us in law enforcement, (me with the County and her with the City)there were always loaded weapons in the house.

We lived in a fairly rural area so firearms were not uncommon.
They were never ever left out in the open, unless carried on our person.

The rest, along with the ammo was locked in the safe. All of kids were taught firearms safety from a very early age. They all had shooting instruction starting around 7 or 8 years old.

They grew up learning to be responsible. And they followed the rules of the house.

1. If you wish to see a firearm, you come to us first.

2. When your friends are here, guns are not part of that. You do not talk about it with your friends or let anyone else know about what we do in our home.

3. The one thing you can never take back is from the moment you pull the trigger.

They all grew into fine adults. And all of them own their own guns now.

As times have changed they take a more active approach to securing the guns they have.

As they should, but they all remember the lessons and Dad's and Mom's duty rigs hanging up in our bedroom.

 

[arc2x4]

If you check the cylinder for full rotation every time you load the gun, you will not accidentally leave the gun locked.

I have been shooting and carrying a revolver for self defense for 30 years, and I have to admit I am unfamiliar with the full rotation test when loading. Could you please explain how this is done?

Thanks

 

[redbos]

I have to agree with others. when I come into the house the gun stays in the holster. If I have to unholster, I put it in the safe. I just think that I would always be thinking, "Did I lock it or unlock it.?" I dont want to think about that when I stake my life on it. I dont own any lock guns, just preference for me......

 

[Broadside]

I have serious questions and was looking for a general consensus.......

Does anyone actually use the lock? I do, I live in a house with 2 young children, and when I need to put my 64-7 away for a short period of time, without locking it up in the safe i.e. home for a couple hours, taking a shower and running back out, etc. I make use of the IL on the unloaded gun.

I unload the revolver, put the rounds somewhere else, keep my speed strips in the same spot as the rounds in a locked drawer, and lock the gun with the IL for "extra" safety. Sure, I dislike the IL as much as anyone else, but I figure if it's there, why not use it. In the .0001% chance a kid finds one of my .38's, puts it in the 64-7 that's hidden in the house in a bag 7 feet up on a shelf, the gun still won't fire. When I am home for the day, I lock the gun up in a safe. But the IL does serve a purpose. Again, I have plenty of non-IL S&W's but use the 64-7 often as a carry piece, and might as well make use of the lock.

How is this any different than running a cable lock through the cylinder opening?

In my opinion, the lock serves no useful purpose. Add to that the fact that a mechanical lock consists of very small, precise load bearing surfaces. I cannot see any good coming from putting such a device in a high stress environment like a firearm.

 

[handejector]

I'm impressed. This thread has 13 posts, and is a very reasonable.
My compliments.
This subject has validity and I have no problem with reasonable discussion.
Enjoy the thread as long as it stays that way.

 

[PuertoRican]

I have a Taurus .45ACP with a lock. Its my primary carry piece & is always loaded. Never used the lock nor do I intend to. None of my Smiths have the lock & are also loaded at all times. We have no children living at home. Grandkids never show up unannounced so there are no safety concerns along those lines. In these days of home invasions, car theft & burglary, I prefer to keep all my firearms within easy reach & ready for deployment.

 

[Ashlander]

My kids are grown, so I have never engaged the locks. Nevertheless, for some reason I carry the key on my keychain. Out of curiosity I just decided to see how they worked, I locked and unlocked my 640. Then I tried to lock my 66-7 which is an Aussie cop trade-in. Apparently the Aussie cops had no use for locks -- while the key turns in the lock, nothing engages -- it's inoperable.

Glad I checked.

 

[Maximumbob54]

I used to just ignore them. Then my 637-2 jammed at the range and needed the key wiggling in the lock to release the hammer. This was with non +P 125gr plated bullet loads. Then my 629-5 did the same thing. I bought her used and had to clean off a lot of dryed on WD-40 varnish when I got her. The key wiggling in the lock let the hammer go again. The side plate was pulled for a detailed cleaning and there was quite a bit of that varnish build up that was like glue with dust and grit. So maybe the ILS parts were suffering for the goo and filth. Don't know for sure but they were still yanked out. And I still think WD-40 is the devil around guns.

 

[stantheman86]

I also have an Australian trade-in 4" 66-7. They apparently ground the nub off the flag, so that when the flag is engaged the gun still operates. I don't mind the lock but it's a plus for me that it came with a cleanly done deactivation job.

It also seems the Aussie cops that used these guns hardly if ever fired them, which is another plus.

 

[cjtraining]

I have seven guns /w locks. Of those, three have the plug. They are in my suvs & car. My personal carry guns, M649 & M38-2, have no lock. I would never rely on a gun w/ a lock for SD. The lock may never fail, but why take a chance when it comes to the safety of my family or myself. IMHO

 

[BenR]

I have to agree with others. when I come into the house the gun stays in the holster. If I have to unholster, I put it in the safe. I just think that I would always be thinking, "Did I lock it or unlock it.?" I dont want to think about that when I stake my life on it. I dont own any lock guns, just preference for me......

Along those lines, whether the gun is holstered, secured in my safe, or on my table being cleaned, I always want to be able to bring the firearm into action — should the worst-case scenario present itself — without ever having to think twice about whether its internal lock is engaged.

That being said, it's up to every responsible gun owner to decide what is best for him or her. If that means having an unloaded firearm with its internal lock engaged while the weapon is secured in a safe, then so be it.

The bottom line for me is that I'd never leave a gun unattended, regardless of whether it's actually loaded or not.