The 4" models seem to be in greater demand and harder to find. The first two M28's I owned were both 6" versions. Later I found a 4" model and got that. For every 4" I see for sale it seems that I find two or three 6" models.
Bought a Model 28-3 Highway Patrolman
- Thread starter AJMBLAZER
- Start date
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AJMBLAZER
Member
Well, got there as soon as they opened this morning and they sold it the other day. Said the guy was super excited to get it.
At $350 so was I. Ugly finish but sound mechanically.
Ran around town and Bud's Gun Shop had a 28-3 4" in decent shape for $479. I liked it. Had $420 in my pocket so I asked if they'd come down. Guy asked management and they said it's new on consignment so they can't negotiate until 30 days has passed since they got it.
I'll go back in a few weeks.
C'est la vie.
At $350 so was I. Ugly finish but sound mechanically.
Ran around town and Bud's Gun Shop had a 28-3 4" in decent shape for $479. I liked it. Had $420 in my pocket so I asked if they'd come down. Guy asked management and they said it's new on consignment so they can't negotiate until 30 days has passed since they got it.
I'll go back in a few weeks.
C'est la vie.
semperfi71
US Veteran
My first M28-2 4 inch was fed a lot of H-110 loads with 140 to 160 grain jacketed bullets, it worked well until......
I had a top end, but safe load, that the bullets were striking the forcing cone and shaving copper jacket material between the forcing cone and the cylinder. It was as if the forcing cone had lost its dimensions...as in tightened up. It might have been due to a very dirty forcing cone.
Anyhow only about 3 or 5 now over-pressure loads, and they were with flattened primers and stuck cases, and the gun was ruined. It would no longer work properly with any sort of .357 Magnum load. I would get the "sticking cylinder rotation" syndrome without anything apparently causing the hard rotation, no nothing under the ejector star, no nothing hanging between the forcing cone and the cylinder. No indication of anything that would cause a retarded cylinder rotation.
Initially I did have the forcing cone reamed and was told it was under specifications, but I had been shooting it about four years without any problems, then I started having problems with the gun due to the accidental high pressure loads. After reaming the forcing cone the problem still occurred.
Took it back to the same gunsmith who was touted as the "best"...he wasn't. He told me the ejector lugs on the star had been "lengthened" due to the high pressure loads so he filed them down "since they were dragging on the recoil shield and causing my problem."
When I took it out to shoot safe .357 Magnum loads it still bound up. I got rid of it. I have since learned here it might have been "endshake" issues.
Yes, even a N-Frame .357 Magnum can be ruined by too high of a pressure load.
All of the older N-Frames (.357, .41, and .44 Magnum) operated at the same high pressures. Caliber and recoil would not cause problems but the pressures will. Inside the cylinder is a "ledge" that the ejector rod rides upon. High pressure loads "peen" that ledge and cause end-shake.
Metals used in manufacture can be guaranteed to withstand certain pressure loads but after the final manufacture and installation the same metals may exhibit different reactions, as in one cylinder may hold up better than another.
My M29-2 was never fed over-pressure loads but in time it too experienced end-shake which I fixed.
There are many reports here of people who have fired their N-Frames (pick the caliber) a lot and never had a problem.
I do know that when the sport of long-range handgun shooting began there were a lot of S&W .44 Magnums that were being worn out. I have heard that is why S&W did the "upgrade" on the later M29 and 629 versions.
The entire N-Frame can handle a lot of shooting and pressure, except that little metal ledge inside the cylinder that gets peened.
If I wanted a magnum handgun that can handle any top end pressure load, and the occassional mistake of an over-pressure load I would buy a Ruger Blackhawk/Superblackhawk. They ARE tough guns and the design has no weaknesses, unless your loads are too hot and you blow the gun up.
I do not know about any of the other more "modern" magnums such as the Redhawk, etc.
I would suggest you continue to save your dollars and look for a good M28 (and you will find one) and just be careful with your loads.
Good luck.
I had a top end, but safe load, that the bullets were striking the forcing cone and shaving copper jacket material between the forcing cone and the cylinder. It was as if the forcing cone had lost its dimensions...as in tightened up. It might have been due to a very dirty forcing cone.
Anyhow only about 3 or 5 now over-pressure loads, and they were with flattened primers and stuck cases, and the gun was ruined. It would no longer work properly with any sort of .357 Magnum load. I would get the "sticking cylinder rotation" syndrome without anything apparently causing the hard rotation, no nothing under the ejector star, no nothing hanging between the forcing cone and the cylinder. No indication of anything that would cause a retarded cylinder rotation.
Initially I did have the forcing cone reamed and was told it was under specifications, but I had been shooting it about four years without any problems, then I started having problems with the gun due to the accidental high pressure loads. After reaming the forcing cone the problem still occurred.
Took it back to the same gunsmith who was touted as the "best"...he wasn't. He told me the ejector lugs on the star had been "lengthened" due to the high pressure loads so he filed them down "since they were dragging on the recoil shield and causing my problem."
When I took it out to shoot safe .357 Magnum loads it still bound up. I got rid of it. I have since learned here it might have been "endshake" issues.
Yes, even a N-Frame .357 Magnum can be ruined by too high of a pressure load.
All of the older N-Frames (.357, .41, and .44 Magnum) operated at the same high pressures. Caliber and recoil would not cause problems but the pressures will. Inside the cylinder is a "ledge" that the ejector rod rides upon. High pressure loads "peen" that ledge and cause end-shake.
Metals used in manufacture can be guaranteed to withstand certain pressure loads but after the final manufacture and installation the same metals may exhibit different reactions, as in one cylinder may hold up better than another.
My M29-2 was never fed over-pressure loads but in time it too experienced end-shake which I fixed.
There are many reports here of people who have fired their N-Frames (pick the caliber) a lot and never had a problem.
I do know that when the sport of long-range handgun shooting began there were a lot of S&W .44 Magnums that were being worn out. I have heard that is why S&W did the "upgrade" on the later M29 and 629 versions.
The entire N-Frame can handle a lot of shooting and pressure, except that little metal ledge inside the cylinder that gets peened.
If I wanted a magnum handgun that can handle any top end pressure load, and the occassional mistake of an over-pressure load I would buy a Ruger Blackhawk/Superblackhawk. They ARE tough guns and the design has no weaknesses, unless your loads are too hot and you blow the gun up.
I do not know about any of the other more "modern" magnums such as the Redhawk, etc.
I would suggest you continue to save your dollars and look for a good M28 (and you will find one) and just be careful with your loads.
Good luck.
Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
You don't want a -3. That's when they eliminated the barrel pin and counter-bored chambers. Th -2 model is much more desirable.
Or just look for a Model 27 (again, -2 or earlier). If the price difference is only $150 the 27 is twice the gun and a much better value.
Or just look for a Model 27 (again, -2 or earlier). If the price difference is only $150 the 27 is twice the gun and a much better value.
OP
AJMBLAZER
Member
So what's the pin elimination and the non counter bored chambers do or not do?
Truthfully, they really don't make that much difference. An unpinned barrel is almost as secure as a pinned one. Cylinders really don't NEED to be recessed, case heads are pretty strong nowadays. It's just that P&R revolvers are a product of a time when craftsmanship and attention to detail were more prevalent. Plus, they're just COOL.
Guess that's why I'm the P&R Fan.
Jim
OP
AJMBLAZER
Member
Does that affect the value much? If I were able to get this -3 for around $400-420 would it still be a good deal?
Sales guy at Bud's seemed extra interested when I told him I had cash in my wallet.
Sales guy at Bud's seemed extra interested when I told him I had cash in my wallet.
Sebago Son
Member
Not correct Frank.
-3 guns were only produced for a very short period before 28's were discontinued.
28-3's are more collectible for this reason.
I have many pre-28's, 28's, 28-2's, and only one 28-3, a 4" gun. I am actively seeking a 28-3 6".
Drew
aterry33
Member
OP
AJMBLAZER
Member
Oh, and for the record. I've probably muddled it up earlier in the thread but now people are posting specifically about super insane hot reloads.
We will NOT be doing anything crazy. Hottest would be something approaching Buffalo Bore or even well established Keith type loads. That will only be after we have a firm grip on reloading. Nothing insane, no "fill the case and smash the bullet in" type stuff.
We're just starting out and my buddy is down around Cowboy Loads right now in .38 Special. We're far from even pushing our way past WWB .357 generic loads.
Thanks from the concern but I like my hands and fingers and have no intention of blowing up them or a many hundred dollar firearm I worked hard to own.
We will NOT be doing anything crazy. Hottest would be something approaching Buffalo Bore or even well established Keith type loads. That will only be after we have a firm grip on reloading. Nothing insane, no "fill the case and smash the bullet in" type stuff.
We're just starting out and my buddy is down around Cowboy Loads right now in .38 Special. We're far from even pushing our way past WWB .357 generic loads.
Thanks from the concern but I like my hands and fingers and have no intention of blowing up them or a many hundred dollar firearm I worked hard to own.
.357magger
Member
I think he said desirable, not more collectable. And in that sense, he is correct imo.
And this exchange illustrates perfectly the difference between die hard collecting and the shooter/collector/accumulator. Things that will make the die hard collector swoon and reach for the AmEx will make the latter yawn and search for a model that has more "desirable" features.
Such as P&R models.
The new "holy grail" of Smith buyers. But I don't agree that the 27 is double the gun however.
Every 27 I've owned (27 no dash, 27-1 and 27-2's) got sold eventually as just too darn pretty to shoot. But 28's? Have that "mean" and businesslike appearance that many find appealing and if you spent time wearing tin, who can resist "Highway Patrolman" rollmarked on your gat?
Sebago Son
Member
I think he said desirable, not more collectible. And in that sense, he is correct imo.
And this exchange illustrates perfectly the difference between die hard collecting and the shooter/collector/accumulator. Things that will make the die hard collector swoon and reach for the AmEx will make the latter yawn and search for a model that has more "desirable" features.
Such as P&R models.
So you contend that having a barrel pin and the charge holes a little deeper somehow makes the bazillions of 28-2's more attractive than the damn few -3's?
How does this make the gun a better "shooter"?
28-3's like 25-5's are one of the few examples in Smith collecting where a premium is likely for non P&R guns...
I stand by "Desirable". If for no other reason than the monetary value attached.
BTW, the "NEW grail" is non-IL locked guns. Before that was forged vs. MIM. Then wood vs. rubber stocks before that.
Drew
If thats all true all you have to do is buy guns made before 1975 or so....
and you got the cream of the crop.
cooperduper
Member
Getting back to the original question...
I bought a GP100 as my first magnum. Took advice on "can't hurt it", etc. They are a tank and basically as big as an N frame. Then I ran onto an HP years later and picked it up because it was the right price and it just looked like it means business.
Quick story is I ended up trading the GP100 for an old Sauer 38H, dies and such. The HP has SO MUCH BETTER A TRIGGER and just POINTS SO MUCH NICER than the Ruger.
The HP can take any loads I need to use. I have 44 magnums for throwing big lead fast.
Remember that Elmer was loading in a .38-44 or other S&W or SAA. He didn't use a Super Blackhawk for his load development...
I bought a GP100 as my first magnum. Took advice on "can't hurt it", etc. They are a tank and basically as big as an N frame. Then I ran onto an HP years later and picked it up because it was the right price and it just looked like it means business.
Quick story is I ended up trading the GP100 for an old Sauer 38H, dies and such. The HP has SO MUCH BETTER A TRIGGER and just POINTS SO MUCH NICER than the Ruger.
The HP can take any loads I need to use. I have 44 magnums for throwing big lead fast.
Remember that Elmer was loading in a .38-44 or other S&W or SAA. He didn't use a Super Blackhawk for his load development...
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Art Doc
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
If all one wants is the scarcest variation for a collection then I suppose the -3 would be more desirable. But one probably wouldn't want to use and shoot such a rare and valuable piece, now would one?
If one wanted the best variation for using and shooting then I stand by my assessment that the -2 (or earlier) is a better choice.
As for the advantages of the pinned and recessed models (P&R), the original intent of the recessed chambers was to better contain the pressures of the Magnum cartridge. This is what S&W said a long time ago. Apparently they decided in 1982 that the Magnums really didn't need the added containment. The fact is that Colt never used this feature, and it probably is unnecessary, but it's elimination represents a reduction in quality, in my opinion. It was not dropped to make the gun better. It was dropped for no reason other than to save money in manufacturing. This is not a good selling point (again, in my opinion).
Same with the barrel pin. Colt never used the pin, but there are advantages when swapping barrels is needed. Also, it seems to me that S&W has had tons of QC problems with barrels since the pin was eliminated, suggesting they didn't master the crush fit procedure.
Bottom line: the post-P&R models lack the style and panache of the earlier guns.
All I can say is that I genuinely prefer the P&R variations. This is what I recommend to others. All are free to do what they wish with my advice.
If one wanted the best variation for using and shooting then I stand by my assessment that the -2 (or earlier) is a better choice.
As for the advantages of the pinned and recessed models (P&R), the original intent of the recessed chambers was to better contain the pressures of the Magnum cartridge. This is what S&W said a long time ago. Apparently they decided in 1982 that the Magnums really didn't need the added containment. The fact is that Colt never used this feature, and it probably is unnecessary, but it's elimination represents a reduction in quality, in my opinion. It was not dropped to make the gun better. It was dropped for no reason other than to save money in manufacturing. This is not a good selling point (again, in my opinion).
Same with the barrel pin. Colt never used the pin, but there are advantages when swapping barrels is needed. Also, it seems to me that S&W has had tons of QC problems with barrels since the pin was eliminated, suggesting they didn't master the crush fit procedure.
Bottom line: the post-P&R models lack the style and panache of the earlier guns.
All I can say is that I genuinely prefer the P&R variations. This is what I recommend to others. All are free to do what they wish with my advice.
OP
AJMBLAZER
Member
I buy guns to shoot or to pass on for profit.
This will be a shooter, -3 or otherwise. The -3's already not had a "safe queen" life judging from the handling wear and a few marks.
This will be a shooter, -3 or otherwise. The -3's already not had a "safe queen" life judging from the handling wear and a few marks.
OP
AJMBLAZER
Member
Went and looked again today at the -3 at Bud's. Lockup is tight, crane doesn't have any movement when closed, nice trigger pull, everything physically seems good. Finish is "meh" without being bad. They're still fixed on the price, I asked if they'd move and was paying cash. The guy got his manager to come down $20 but then I'd pay that in taxes so I passed. Told me it was on consignment since November 15th so I'll go back in two weeks and wave cash at them again. Trying to get it for less than $450.
OP
AJMBLAZER
Member
Got the Highway Patrolman.
Guy didn't even blink and refused me straight up on the $420 cash. Said $460 plus tax.
I said $450 cash out the door.
He said $450 plus tax ($466.40) and it was mine.
I bit. I can deal with it.
Ferk is it great to shoot. Shooting some 158 gr JSP Magnums it's got a noticeable kick but it's not bad. Shooting .38 +P's is easy. Like shooting regular .38's in the K frames I used to have.
Yep, I'm pleased.
Guy didn't even blink and refused me straight up on the $420 cash. Said $460 plus tax.
I said $450 cash out the door.
He said $450 plus tax ($466.40) and it was mine.
I bit. I can deal with it.
Ferk is it great to shoot. Shooting some 158 gr JSP Magnums it's got a noticeable kick but it's not bad. Shooting .38 +P's is easy. Like shooting regular .38's in the K frames I used to have.
Yep, I'm pleased.
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bananaman
Member
AJMBLAZER, Great purchase! I looked at one on Sat at a local gun shop. $495 is the price. It looks almost as new. 4" barrel, did not look if it was a -2, or -3. One of the owners told me that it was only there 2 days, and he thought it was unfired. I may go back and pick it up today! Looks too good to shoot, but I don't want a gun that I won't shoot again. Bob
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