Brazilian M1937/1917 Matching Numbers??

[Jack Flash]

... However, I cannot find anywhere on the gun any import markings from CAI or other. Is it possible this gun was supposed to go out and never got shipped??? ..........

I suppose that is possible, but I doubt it. Most likely the guy stamping them wasn't exactly a highly motivated go-getter, if you catch my drift. Besides, since they originated in the US, it is debatable whether they needed to be import-marked anyway.

... Also any recommendations as to what brand or type of moon ring to use with the .45ACP target ammo. I've found several auctions on GB but don't know what's better or worse. Are there actual moon rings available from that era?? That would be cool unless the new ones work just as well. The only .45 auto rim I could find around here was hollow point defensive ammo +P. Not recommended. Thanks again to all..........

Every once in a while Remington makes a run of standard pressure Auto Rim. Otherwise, you have to buy the brass and handload. One thing to be careful about - my understanding is that some of the Rimz clips are specific to later model M25s/M625s. If you buy these, make sure they are intended for the Model of 1917.

Here's my chance to dust off this photo which shows the different moon-clip options. I like the third-moon clips because they allow you to store the clipped ammo in an ordinary ammo box. Full-moon clips make for the fastest reload, of course.

 

[shep854]

Jack, thanks for the photo. I was thinking of it as I typed my post.
Loading and unloading clips is easier and faster than telling about it, though those 2-rd clips may need a particular trick.

Regarding import marks, if a gun leaves the country, it MUST be stamped if reimported for sale. Personal firearms don't require the stamp, even if they were bought overseas. I have a CZ-75 that was apparently brought home by a service member, with its original box and target, that has no import marks.
OTOH, my 1917 HE has an import mark, but no military markings.

 

[mitchsnap]

So am I to understand that you can used standard .45ACP target loads? The only advantage of the moon clips is removing the spent cartridges from the cylinder. I thought the moon clips were required when using .45ACP ammo.

 

[shep854]

Yes and no...(Don'tya just love it?) The S&W will fire ACP w/o clips, but they won't eject--as mentioned, they have to be pushed, plucked or shaken out. I understand, though, that the Colt M1917 will not fire without clips.

This all came about during WWI, when the US found itself badly lacking .45 pistols. M1911s could not be produced enough, so S&W and Colt revolvers were modified to fire .45 ACP, using clips. The rest, as they say, is history.

 

[JSR III]

No, .45 ACP will fire in a 1917 without the clips as someone all ready pointed out. The case seats on the case rim, not the case head. The main issue with .45 ACP is extraction. They will not extract without the 1/2 moon clips unless you use a rod from the front and poke each case out individually.

 

[mitchsnap]

So it is safe to use .45ACP in this M1937 Brazilian without moon clips. It is just easier to use the moon clips to remove all the spent cartridges in one shot with ejector rod in front of the cylinder. Right????

 

[Muley Gil]

"Right????"

That is correct.

"I understand, though, that the Colt M1917 will not fire without clips."

It has been written that the first 50,000 Colt 1917s were bored straight through and needed the clips for headspacing. I've never encountered one through and I've looked at a lot of 'em. I've also read that many of the these first Colt 1917s had the cylinders replaced with chambered ones.

"will not extract without the 1/2 moon clips unless you use a rod from the front and poke each case out individually."

I shot my commercial S&W 1917 the other day without clips. The fired cases that didn't shake out I pulled out with a fingernail.

"The U.S. stamped these before they left the states with the crest."

The crest was stamped by the S&W factory for the Brazilian government, per their contract, IIRC.

 

[shep854]

Muley, thanks for clarifying the Colt situation.

 

[Texas Star]

Do the Brazilian guns use new parts, or leftovers from WW I? Especially those from the 1946 order...

I'm hoping that the later ones are a little safer with an overload than the WW I guns. Not that I'd use Plus P loads in them.

 

[mitchsnap]

What is IIRC?????????

 

[murphydog]

What is IIRC?????????

"If I recall correctly"

 

[mitchsnap]

You know. I've seen this so many times and always wondered what it meant. It's like FTFCO or some other terms people use to shorten the posting. Thanks, murphydog.

 

[Muley Gil]

"Do the Brazilian guns use new parts, or leftovers from WW I? Especially those from the 1946 order..."

The Brazilians from the 1938 order used up to date flat top frames. The later 1946 order used a bunch of round top WW I frames.

 

[shep854]

Could someone post a shot of a "flat top" 1917 frame? AFAIK (As Far As I Know ), I've only seen round-tops--I probably wasn't paying attention.

 

[gordonrick]

This is the only gun my wife actually likes to shoot. There were a bunch of them released in the late 80's for around $150. Great shooter!

My 1938 contract Brazilian has is a small "RDGFLD. N.J." import mark (Navy Arms?) under the left grip by the strain screw. Also has a rack #3259 on the backstrap.

I had originally assumed the 1917 was designed for the auto-rim cartridge, but found out it was just the opposite. BTW, my "special tool" for de-mooning is a leatherman. Works just fine.

 

[shep854]

I looking high and low for one of those Brazilian guns back then. The word was that those would be the last of the decent 1917s.

 

[Texas Star]

"Do the Brazilian guns use new parts, or leftovers from WW I? Especially those from the 1946 order..."

The Brazilians from the 1938 order used up to date flat top frames. The later 1946 order used a bunch of round top WW I frames.

Many thanks!