Beware of Ebay and Paypal

thedane

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I have been buying and selling on Ebay for over 13 years. Until recently, I have had very good experiences. Ebay used to be an excellent way to auction. They charged fees based upon your listing services and a final value fee based upon the total sales price. This fee used to be about 4%. There have been some changes that have begun to give me pause. Ebay requires that most transactions have to be paid for using PayPal. PayPal charges approximately 3% for this “convenience”. It should be noted that Ebay now owns PayPal and that Ebay is PayPal’s largest customer.

Ebay has changed its listing fees somewhat but has raised their final value fee to 9% on items up to $1000.00. Now one must pay 12% to Ebay and PayPal. This is comparable to the consignment fee at some gun stores.

Ebay recently employed a Buyer Protection Program. Basically if a buyer is not happy with the product they purchase they can open a “case“. If the seller doesn’t resolve the case with the buyer, Ebay gets involved and decides the “case”.

This just happened to me. I sold a somewhat high end Randall Knife. It was as new and a limited production knife by the Randall Collector’s Society. The buyer “sniped” it in the last 30 seconds of the auction and outbid a reputable dealer. When the buyer received the knife he claimed that there was a crack in the stag and he wanted to return it. I countered that there wasn’t a crack in the stag that any imperfections were characteristic of stag. This went back and forth for a while. I offered to refund a portion of his money to compensate the buyer for his dissatisfaction. He was not interested. He then opened a “case”. As soon as the case was opened , I received a message from Ebay to reimburse the buyer to avoid a penalty. This was before any evidence had been heard. The buyer sent two extremely high resolution pictures of the “crack”. If you magnify anything enough it will look faulty. I should add that I posted several high resolution pictures in the original listing. However, Ebay reduces the clarity so it is almost impossible to show any detail.

Ebay then decided in the buyer’s favor and sent him a shipping label. I was sent an e-mail from Ebay to examine the knife upon return and then refund the buyer within 3 days. If I did, I would not be charged the 9% final value fee. I received the knife back yesterday. The buyer had apparently thrown away the original Randall wrapping paper and covered the shipping box with tape. Yesterday evening I logged onto Ebay to refund the buyer. I was greeted with a message from Ebay that they had already refunded the buyer and now I needed to refund them. During this entire process, Ebay put a freeze on my PayPal account in the amount of the total sales price plus shipping.

Since I wasn’t given the opportunity to refund directly to the buyer, I will be charged the final value fee.

After talking to several lovely representatives from India, I haven’t been able to find out what happened. I appealed my case in an attempt to recoup my fees for services that I didn’t receive.

I apologize for this long winded, whiny post, but I think some of you may benefit. Selling on Ebay no longer is a pleasure. Give the business to someone else.
 
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I stopped dealing with ebay when they went pay-pal only. I bought and sold hundreds of items, and never an un happy camper on either end.

No way I would ship anything of value to an anonymous internet contact without having CASH in my hand first.

You are lucky you got anything back at all, I am seeing more and more reports of "not received" or "received destroyed" and ebay refunding the buyer with no need to return anything.
 
I still buy quite often on eBay but haven't sold anything there in a couple of years. Not likely to change.
 
I have always enjoyed buying over eBay and have been using PayPal for a while now. I don't sell over eBay though, but I have taken payments via PayPal. I look at the PayPal percentage the same way as credit card machines have a percentage that retailers have to fork over. You are using them for their convenience that brings in more customers. I have yet to be burned in a PayPal transaction. Now to I think they are getting a little silly with their cut of the deal? YES! But at this point I'm more worried about getting a fake USPS MO than I am getting burned in a PayPal transaction. Come to think of it, I used to select "PayPal only" or some setting in my eBay searches to make sure I only looked at listings that I could pay via PayPal. I doubt I'm alone. Also, PayPal allows buyers to use their credit card to make a purchase from a seller. I don't know what the cost of a setup is to take CC payments these days through a bank, but I know it's a lot more than the percentage that PayPal gaffs you. No system is perfect, but I still keep waiting for something better to roll out. Heck, I'm even sketchy about many people's checks. I hate holding up shipping on something since it comes across as saying the buyer may be a lying cheat, but the reality is that I have in the small bit of selling that I have done, I have had several bounced checks come back. It's hard to make a system that really holds everyone correctly accountable for their actions and this stinks that the OP was burned (taking his word for it), but all it would take is for people to be honest in all things for this to go away. Since that will never happen, this is the best we can hope for and have to put up with. I say make the best of it.
 
Intersting story. I just got off a 3 day suspension for abusing the listing rules. I was guilty, just didn't know it was against the rules and my wrist have been slapped. I will be good now. Promise.

I use eBay, buying and selling and look upon their charges as just part of the business, overhead, if you like and just add it to my price. I don't know where you can get a bigger audience for selling.

I've had very few problems in my almost 20 yrs now. I don't sell (or buy) high $ items and stay away from the high volume sellers who are just middle-middle and sometimes more middle men. You got to know the value of what you want. I like the one-of-a-kind items that I would never see if it wasn't for eBay.
Those items are getting more rare as the market (not just eBay) is flooded w/the latest electronic wizard device that nobody's life is complete without. :rolleyes:

And the value of PayPal to me is how it speeds up the transaction. Instead of it taking weeks, its 3-5 days w/PP :).
 
My first infraction, a few years ago, was when I tried to sell a knife with an Ivory Micarta handle. It was pulled from Ebay. I tried to explain that it wasn't Ivory, but no go. The second was the M14 bayonet. You can't use M14 or M16 because M14's and M16's are bad. You can use M1, M6 or M7. Go figure.
 
I haven't sold recently because if you sell through e-bay you MUST accept Pay Pal.

Last purchase I did with e-bay a guy sold me some J frame grips with one broken in half, something he failed to mention. He refused to take them back. and e-bay/PayPal didn't want to get involved.
 
i don't deal with e-bay and I don't accept paypal for payment for stuff I sell. I have been known to accept various kinds of livestock such as pigs, chickens or goats and lately I have had a powerful urge to get me a good monkey to hang around the shop with me.
 
I'm into PP and Ebay for 11 years now. They have become a Buyer's Agent and seem to care little for the seller. They consistently make it harder for a seller to keep a good rating. Most buyers are genuine, but there are definitely "flakes" out there...those who don't understand that they are buying used, but expect new. My "very Good" description of an item may not meet yours, especially if you are a PITA. Ebay always sides with the seller. Their "investigation" is BS. They do nothing, but refund the buyer. That said, they are still the best out there because they are the most widely used. Twelve percent is outrageous, but the service is quick.
 
I stopped using PayPal after my bank account was hacked. I was told they had security problems, I found out the hard way.
 
Paypal sucks - and I refuse to buy anything from anybody who requires I use them - did I tell you Paypal sucks? If I didn't - Paypal sucks!:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Pete
 
I've sold on ebay for some years now and still do occasionally, not as much since I've turned to other markets to sell my sight tools. There are other methods that you can accept payments by such as credit cards if you are set up for that and a couple of other online payment companies that I'm not familiar with, along with the option that someone can pay when they pick it up if it's a local buyer. On my website, checkout is done through Paypal or a buyer can choose to snail mail me a USPS or Walmart MO or cashier's check, I don't care either way other than with a Paypal payment I can ship the item to the buyer much cheaper than if I walk into the PO and do it over the counter.

It's not that Paypal is "anti-gun", this is an internet forum fact that is based on someone using Paypal to purchase a firearm then was surprised then their account was frozen then closed. Simply reading the rules for using Paypal would have prevented this, since it's very clear that you cannot use it to purchase firearms or ammunition unless the seller has been pre-approved by Paypal. This is along with a bunch of other items that are prohibited purchases, it's all about reading the fine print just like anything anymore. They're based in California, is anyone surprised that they restrict firearm purchases? It's more about being "anti-being-sued" than anti-gun, and we all know how California is as far as litigation. If someone used Paypal to buy a firearm, then went all nuts and blew away 47 people at their workplace with it, guess who would be included in the ensuing lawsuit? It's just business.

Yes, their sellers' fees are getting to be a bit stifling, but then again where can you get the exposure for your sales that their site offers? For a grand total of .20, my listings get seen in the United States, the UK and I'm assuming everywhere else since I've sold tools to eight countries. I know that Google certainly isn't driving all those sales to my website at the current time. I can't buy advertising for that amount, for sure.

ebay is a tool. If used properly it can work to expose your stuff to the world, if you figure out how to use it. Just keep track of the costs yourself instead of relying on them to do it for you, then the monthly bill won't be such a surprise. It's not a viable market for a business unless you deal in high volume high profit items that aren't likely to be returned by the buyer, but it's fine for occasional sales or getting rid of that old camera or holsters.
 
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i don't deal with e-bay and I don't accept paypal for payment for stuff I sell. I have been known to accept various kinds of livestock such as pigs, chickens or goats and lately I have had a powerful urge to get me a good monkey to hang around the shop with me.


I understand there is a LARGE one available in Georgia!!:D:D
 
I've basically stopped selling on ebay after they stopped letting sellers post negative feedback on buyers.
 
And there are definately some sorry buyers out there. Not being able to give them negative feedback is a big mistake by E-Bay. It's causing a lot of sellers to go elsewhere. Eventually with no sellers you'll have no buyers. Jr. ran into something similar to the OP. He sold an old Abu Garcia reel that was unused in the box. The fool took it apart and couldn't get it back together and sent it back to Jr. and claime it had a bent handle.(it didn't) Ebay had refunded the buyers $ and told Jr. to send it to them. Jr. appealed and sent them proof of what happened. Ebay ate that one and told Jr. not to send them the $. Bottom line: Jr. got the $ from the fool and got the reel back. He then sold it to some guy in England who apparently is satisfied with it. Someone somewhere with deep pockets needs to compete with Ebay and PP for less money. It would put them out of business as right now they have a monopoly.
 
i don't deal with e-bay and I don't accept paypal for payment for stuff I sell. I have been known to accept various kinds of livestock such as pigs, chickens or goats and lately I have had a powerful urge to get me a good monkey to hang around the shop with me.

best post ever!!! you just made my night lol thanks man
 
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