Converting a model 29 to 45LC?

[EsquireMagnum]

I've been doing some research on model 25's and the consensus is that while good guns, they have softer frames that dont tolerate hotter loads well and are subject to excessive endshake if used for such.

Since the model 29 received the better heat treat ( i'll never understand why S&W didn't just give all their steel frames the same heat treat) and is the stronger frame I'm sitting here wondering if its possible to simply swap the barrel and cylinder from a model 25 into a model 29. Would this be possible since they are both N frame guns? If not how about just swapping the barrel and then boring out the 44 mag cylinder or having an aftermarket beefier cylinder fitted?

I'm not looking for something to shoot ruger rocket loads (I have a ruger for that), just something that will have no trouble with a constant diet of the old black powder load (255 @ 950fps) and maybe something a bit hotter for outdoors use now and again.

Thoughts?

 

[max]

IMHO, the cylinder is the weak link. I believe all N frames use the same cylinder. After you bore .45 holes in it there is not much metal left. Skeeter wrote about this 40 years ago or so. What is left is paper thin. I have a 25-5 and just don't see the need for super hot loads. If you read Taffin and others, they contend that a 250 gr swc at 900 fps will totally penetrate just about any animal in North America. If you want a hot 45, use a Ruger.

 

[EsquireMagnum]

IMHO, the cylinder is the weak link. I believe all N frames use the same cylinder. After you bore .45 holes in it there is not much metal left. Skeeter wrote about this 40 years ago or so. What is left is paper thin. I have a 25-5 and just don't see the need for super hot loads. If you read Taffin and others, they contend that a 250 gr swc at 900 fps will totally penetrate just about any animal in North America. If you want a hot 45, use a Ruger.

According to Linebaugh the frames are the issue and not the cylinders...

"It may surprise many but the cylinder on the S&W .45 Colt is the same diameter as the Ruger Blackhawk. The webs (between chambers) and outside chamber wall are also the same. So basically the Ruger and S&W cylinders are identical in strength and dimension. We recommend handloads for the Rugers single action in .45 Colt caliber to 32,000 PSI levels."

 

[1911bphil]

Why would you do this? After spending all that money, you would double the price and not get the performance that you get from the Ruger

 

[Stu454]

255gr at 950 should be fine for a 25-5. Read up on this at Linebaugh's site.

I wouldn't do the conversion primarily because anything you'd gain would be greatly outweighted by the costs of the base gun and a quality conversion.

 

[keith44spl]

I've built several conv. to 45LC...Even one on a M29 frame(just cause it was lying around handy).

There's nothing to gain...It's all at the wall thickness at the bottom of the cyl. notches which ain't all that much.

IIRC, that's why a lot of the ol timers gave up on hot roddin' the long colt and continued their experiments with the 44 Spl that led to the magnum cartridge.

Su Amigo,
Dave

 

[BUFF]

Anything you would want to do with the .45 Colt in a Smith & Wesson, you can do with the .44 Magnum, and then some.

Everything, except, shoot .45 Colt ammunition!

Save the money if you want to hot-rod the .45 Colt.

 

[Doug M.]

He said he is NOT wanting to use the hot rod loads. I really doubt that a decent M25 would have any trouble with the loads he said he wants to use.

 

[Shooting4life]

A 25 will be fine for regular loads. I have always wanted a pre war 38/44 heavy duty 4" converted to 45 colt though.

 

[Allen-frame]

If your desire is simply to CREATE a Smith in 45 Colt start with a model 28.

Good platform, use your choice of 45 caliber barrels and have the .357 cylinder opened out to proper dimensions for the ammunition you are using.

Or, find one on gun broker and get it.


SMITH & WESSON 28-2 45 LONG COLT 6 1/2" .45 LC S&W : Revolvers at GunBroker.com


Allen

 

[Dennis The B]

...Since the model 29 received the better heat treat ( i'll never understand why S&W didn't just give all their steel frames the same heat treat)...

To answer your query, the primary reason is called cost. Heat treating all N frames to the need of the .44 Magnum, is a colossal waste of money. The Model 29 is only a fraction of the total N frame production. The other N frames (Models 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28) don't need that level of tempering.

 

[Dump1567]

Here's some info. you might find useful on .45 Colt I put together a few months ago after doing some research.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/ammo/216047-45-colt-self-defense-ammo-s-w-25-625-my-thoughts.html

 

[cp1969]

I would be surprised if there is any difference in heat treat between a M25 and a M29. To do so would require keeping track of the frames and designating them for use only on certain calibers. They're ALL going to get heat treated and cost between different heat treatments is so little that whatever savings there might be would be eaten up with logistics costs.

 

[EsquireMagnum]

Why would you do this? After spending all that money, you would double the price and not get the performance that you get from the Ruger

Performance is relative. The only thing going for the ruger is its ability to handle hot loads. Fit, finish, aesthetics, and the rest go to the smith.

 

[EsquireMagnum]

There's nothing to gain...It's all at the wall thickness at the bottom of the cyl. notches which ain't all that much.

So then linebaugh is wrong?

 

[EsquireMagnum]

To answer your query, the primary reason is called cost. Heat treating all N frames to the need of the .44 Magnum, is a colossal waste of money. The Model 29 is only a fraction of the total N frame production. The other N frames (Models 20, 21, 22, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28) don't need that level of tempering.

Ruger HT's all of their frames the same between 44 and 45.

 

[EsquireMagnum]

I probably should have prefaced my question because I'd rather not venture down the rabbit holes of 'why' or 'cost'. The short answers are 'because I can' and 'its not prohibitive'. What I really want to know is if you can in fact swap the cylinders and barrels, and if not are there beefier aftermarket cylinders available for such a build?

 

[Satoken]

I beleive you can easily swap the cylinders and barrels. There is no aftermarket cylinders for N frames as I know of. Although, Bowen makes cylinders for K frames so if there is enough demand, they may look into this venture. I too have read Linebaugh's writing many times and understand what he's saying. What he doesn't mention is, it is not the pressure, but the recoil that beats the S&W N frames. Have you shot enough rounds through any of S&Ws? If you shoot a lot, almost all of them get loose, including M17s, M27s, and even M500s. I know because I've done it. Newer design with heat treated yoke & retention screw is a great improvement and I haven't seen any yoke end shake with these guns yet. Cylinder end shake is another story and you still need to keep your eyes on even the gun is more recent one. If your goal is 250gr@950fps, I would have to say; stick with your 44 and spend the money for bullets, powder and occasional tightning up.To be honest with you, I love M29s!

 

[44wheelman]

I converted a tired old, well worn, and condition challenged 38/44 Outdoorsman to 44special. I see that there are several advantages to doing this yourself. (or if you have a bucket of money burning hole in your pocket)
#1, I got to cut the chambers myself. That means they are all uniform and to the size I chose.
#2, Set the barrel gap to .004/.005 and perfectly square. Yes had to turn the barrel down to do it.
#3 End shake & side play now minimal.
#4 Oversized hand made timming right

Tell you what, it was a very rewarding project, and ended up with a gun that shoots very well. I personally feel you are not going to wear out a 25 with the load you mention, but you may like the exersize of changing the 29. While your at it, pick up an extra crane/cylinder to fit it for ACP!

 

[buckeyeshooter1]

if you want to 'hot rod' a 45 buy a 460! Much better in my mind, I don't want to hold a grenade when it goes off!