Question about shoulder holster usage.

[USAF385]

If you aren't comfortable...DON'T USE IT! A shoulder holster is no more dangerous than any other holster. It is the operator not the gun, not the holster!

A properly holstered gun presents no danger to anyone whether it is a shoulder holster, IWB,OWB, ankle, *** or any other configuration.

A gun goes bang because someone did something to MAKE it go bang.

Randy

That being said, would you feel comfortable with someone walking around with an un-holstered gun pointed in front of them? Even with no finger on the trigger? It's properly secured, they have a good grip.. there's no way the guns is going to "go bang". The operator has control and wont fire by accident. Really no different than in a shoulder holster pointed behind them from under the armpit.

You might say it's an extreme comparison (and it is), but in reality there isn't much difference, other than the obvious fact that holding a gun out like that would be brandishing.

Nobody has said that the holster is unsafe.... it's just the concept of a loaded gun pointing at things you don't want to have shot. Normally when carried, the guns is pointed downward.

 

[Silversmok3]

Hmmn. I see a great deal of paranoia and hand wringing going on here.

Let us begin with my background on the matter of shoulder holsters . I use a Miami Classic shoulder holster for my Beretta and S&W 4566 when concealed carrying.It is a satisfying condition to have a holster which fits two different pistols safely and comfortably, which is why I am dismayed at the hand-wringing happening here.

For one, you do NOT sweep people to your right as you draw unless your shoulder holster is improperly adjusted. If your holster is adjusted like you are Don Johnson starring in Miami Vice 2012, it is improperly adjusted. When the piece is suspended at waist level in such a manner the user must fold themselves in on the draw to acquire an angle to reach the weapon, resulting in the unfortunate problem of 'sweeping' anyone to the immediate left side of a right handed shooter.

When the gun is properly adjusted in the holster with the leather retention component as close to the armpit of the user as comfortably possible this index changes. Once the strap is broken and the weapon is free of the holster completely its already facing a 90 degree direction to the right, and a split second later its pointing forward and on target. In this manner one has a much reduced draw radius and the risk of sweeping the right side is signifigantly reduced.

As to lasering people behind you with a firearm, this is an aspect of image trumping reality. A S&W semi auto is no more likely to fire in a shoulder rig than it is in a waistband holster.The difference is that a S&W holstered on the hip is aimed at the floor, which appears to be a more responsible direction than in a holster pointing back at the wearer's 6 o'clock. While firearm safety is a creed for all who keep and bear arms, let us no preoccupy ourselves with absurd determinations. If a shoulder harness is unsafe because it points a loaded and inert firearm behind the shooter, than police, military, and citizens who live and work in multi-story prefab buildings are practicing quite rude behavior carrying guns pointed at their neighbors and co-workers beneath their feet.

To adress the reaction to a loaded .45 ACP pistol in a holster pointing at me, I consider it no more dangerous than a parked car or an idling vehicle waiting for me to cross the street. Becoming freaked out because I visually see a gun pointing at me in a harness is illogical when said weapon would still be pointing at me had the user kept a jacket on.

There is a major difference between a holstered gun and one in hand ready to be used. I would hope that all who carry weapons regularly will know the difference.

 

[StatesRightist]

Find some articles about a properly holstered gun going off on it's own, you can't. There are plenty of examples of people with guns in their hands falling and the gun going off etc.

Having a gun in your hand and pointing it at someone vs having it holstered is NOT the same thing..if you are disagree go try both with your local LEO...concealed means the shoulder holster/gun not being visible.

....sit in the back of the restaurant etc so the gun is pointing at a wall.

The OP not wearing one at his house, that I get. This other stuff is opinion and nothing else. Don't use a shoulder holster if you don't want to, it's fine with me.....

Silversmok3 makes some excellent points.

 

[growr]

Silversmok3 said it better than I could.....Thank You for your eloquent reply. Well thought out, well reasoned in all regards!

Randy

 

[photoman]

So you would have no problem having a loaded 1911 hammer cocked pointed at your child's head as long as nobody touched the trigger? That's how I'm looking at it. I know it doesn't happen, but nothing is impossible, and it goes against one the the most basic gun handling rules.

It just seems to me this basic gun rule is broken with this method of carry, if you think about it, that loaded gun is pointed right t the head of children behind you, or people sitting down behind you. Mechanical malfunctions can and do happen.

I guess I'm just overly cautious. I was around a ND when I was in my teens which resulted in a death of a friend, and have been overly paranoid ever since, to the point I can't chamber a round until I'm ready to shoot EVER. Now I realize it was a PERSONS fault when it happened, but in my head that doesn't matter.

Thanks for discussing this with me, been on my mind for awhile now.

I'm very sorry to hear about your friend. Very sad indeed. I lost a very close friend to a self-inflicted gunshot wound and you never forget those events.

Regarding shoulder holsters: I'll grant you that they are not the perfect design but I don't think they are as dangerous as they might appear. I've been around handguns seriously for almost 40 years and can't recall a case of anyone being harmed due to a shoulder holstered handgun.

Now, if you want to talk about dangerous... I'm a big fan of appendix carry.

 

[USAF385]

My issue still goes back not pointing a gun where you don't want to shoot. The point about a downward pointed gun in an office building is totally valid. Yeah, if we followed the rule strictly then we could only carry with guns pointing downward and in one story buildings. It's not going to happen. Have I aimed a holstered gun toward something I'd rather not shoot? Sure. It's going to happen. If I can reduce the frequency in which this happens, I will.

As far as the gun being inert and therefore of no risk, this is true. Still, how many of us would sit down at a table and place a loaded firearm toward someone else or at our self? We wouldn't. Would any of us rest a loaded rifle pointed toward a crib? Obviously not. This is bad etiquette as well as a safety no-no. The rifle could be sitting there on a desk with nobody else in the room but a sleeping baby. We still wouldn't do it. Again, these are extreme examples but a valid comparison.

When my fiance rests her head on my lap when we're watching TV, I either move her or the gun I have holstered at 1:00. I know it's not going to go off, but I still won't point a loaded, albeit inert, gun at my fiance's head. I just won't. Despite years of civilian and military training during which I learned the mechanical actions which have to occur in order for a firearm to fire, I won't do it.

It has nothing to do with paranoia or lack of knowledge or anything of the sort. It has do do with etiquette and standards I have set for myself.

 

[USAF385]

Now, if you want to talk about dangerous... I'm a big fan of appendix carry.

It takes a special breed to carry a gun pointed at that......

 

[ASA335]

I'm a fan of shoulder holsters.

Be reasonabley safe, secure, and comfortable with whichever mode of carry you choose for yourself.

Currently I carry only DAO firearms in my horizontal shoulder holsters. I limit my horizontal carry to DAO because I figure it's pretty hard to get a DAO firearm to go off without a substantial pull of the trigger, so carrying horizontally isn't much of an issue in my mind - as long as the gun's trigger isn't touched in my drawing it.

To me, handling and carrying are not the same thing.

Once, at a LE shotgun training course where the four golden rules were strictly enforced, I had my Remington 870 unloaded, slung, muzzle down, safety on and action open, with my hands nowhere near the trigger. While I was talking with some of my fellow trainees one of the range masters walked up to me and said "Do you know your muzzle is pointing at this officers foot?". I looked down and sure enough it was.

This event got me to thinking about how easy it is, without any intention, to "sweep" another person in the course of carrying a firearm. I started watching others. Heck, even LE instructors, with their keen sense of firearms safety, occasionally and unintentionally point a holstered, slung or encased firearm's muzzle at someone else or theirself at least some of the time, regardless of the holster, sling or case used.

I've often seen folks I consider very safe with firearms and well versed and practiced in the basic firearms safety rules, carrying a cased gun vertically as they moved about.

I've been in many places where a firearm was just sitting on a table, counter top or in a case and the muzzle may have been pointing at me or others; gun shops, homes, businesses and in the field.

In my decades of firearms use and my decades of following of firearms safety rules, I've come to believe that rule one (All firearms are always loaded, treat them that way) of the basic four is the one you have to practice all the time; and rules two through four apply while handling.

Rules two (Never point a firearm at anything you're not willing to destroy) and three (Keep your finger off the trigger, unless you're prepared for a shot) would be difficult, maybe even impossible, to religiously adhere to, unless you only handle your firearms alone, in an underground bunker lined with bullet absorbing materials. Rule four (Be sure of your target and what's beyond) clearly only applies while handling a firearm.

I'm not saying ignore any of the rules; I'm saying let's not become so wrapped around rule two we're afraid of firearms carried in reasonably secure and reasonably safe fashions. It is the handling of firearms that should be our utmost concern.

 

[papajohn428]

I was thinking of getting one for long road trips. I think it would work well while driving.

I use mine primarily for days when I'll be in a car a lot. There's NO way I can get to my holstered (IWB) handgun while it's covered by a coat and a seatbelt. The shoulder holster makes great sense. And while I don't like looking at the muzzle of any gun, if it's not in someone's hand, it's not an issue. I'm careful.............but not paranoid.

 

[sigp220.45]

Wow, who would have thought shoulder holsters would inspire such vigorous debate?

I work violent crime matters on two remote Indian reservations. That means when I arrest someone, we get to take a three hour ride together to federal court. Me, the bad guy, and my Sig Sauer. As has been noted, there is no more accessible way to carry a gun while driving.

I also like being able to put on all my gear - gun, mags, cuffs, and badge - in one swoop, and dump it at once at the end of the day.

While I consider the safety issue a moot point, since my gun is well trained and will not shoot people without my input, I would note that in many carry options (in the waistband, crossdraw, appendix, some belt holsters and ankle holsters) the loaded gun is pointed at human flesh 100 percent of the time. Mine? Maybe 10 percent of the time, and even those folks are blissfully unaware since I learned my lesson at Jack Dempsey's.

 

[Neumann]

If you have a belt holster, do you stay on the ground floor so it doesn't point at someone in the floor below?

A weapon in someone's hand point in all directions is something to be concerned about. A holstered, usually safed weapon is not going off by itself. However, the process of holstering is always going to require special care.

 

[9c1 lover]

Wow lots of responses, thanks guys.

One thing I want to point out is the second floor thing, unless its a house 9 times out of 10, the floors in tall buildings are poured concrete, so a firearm pointed down is not gonna go through 10 inches of concrete.

 

[CelticSire]

One thing I want to point out is the second floor thing, unless its a house 9 times out of 10, the floors in tall buildings are poured concrete, so a firearm pointed down is not gonna go through 10 inches of concrete.

True. However, it will most likely ricochet...

 

[Enframe]

I frequently carry a 1911, cocked and locked, in a horizontal shoulder rig. The retention snap lies between the hammer and firing pin. If this is not snapped, the gun will fall out. I make sure it's snapped in place firmly before I take a step. It will not go bang in this condition.

It also has a series 80 firing pin safety. Even if I drop it, it still won't go off, unless three safeties break all at once.

Not anything to get tensed up about. Every man has to know his limitations, as Harry said. JMO

 

[9c1 lover]

True. However, it will most likely ricochet...

Well that would happen on the sidewalk too.

I frequently carry a 1911, cocked and locked, in a horizontal shoulder rig. The retention snap lies between the hammer and firing pin. If this is not snapped, the gun will fall out. I make sure it's snapped in place firmly before I take a step. It will not go bang in this condition.

It also has a series 80 firing pin safety. Even if I drop it, it still won't go off, unless three safeties break all at once.

Not anything to get tensed up about. Every man has to know his limitations, as Harry said. JMO

What's a series 80 firing pin safety, not to jack my own thread, lol. Also what are the 3 safeties you speak of, I'm unfamiliar with the 1911, I do want one bad though.

What about carrying a DAO with no safety like a glock in a horizontal holster, what's your thoughts on that, as these plastic guns are becoming more and more popular with the younger crowd.

A 1911, I'm learning, is not so bad, having 3 safeties and all, but some other guns still have me thinking.

I do want to clarify I'm not trying to get anyone to change their carry or anything like that, it's not for me, but you guys like it so cool, just wanted to talk about it, I was kinda gettin the hint from a few posts, that I should shut up and not worry about others, so I'm sorry if that is how this thread came across. Just a friendly discussion.

Thanks for all the replies.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

The same thing bothered me at first, but so long as all the other rules are observed, nobody is in danger. It is equivalent to having my gun in the dresser, technically speaking at some point if my .45 magically went off as I walked past, the thin wood wouldn't stop it and I'd have the quickest tracheotomy ever completed. But guns don't magically discharge, the pointing rule applies when the gun is in your hand.

 

[Springfeildkid585]

Well that would happen on the sidewalk too.


What's a series 80 firing pin safety, not to jack my own thread, lol. Also what are the 3 safeties you speak of, I'm unfamiliar with the 1911, I do want one bad though.

I assume the third he's referring to is the series 80. The three I know of are the grip safety, the thumb safety, and the right(or left) number 2 digit.

 

[Enframe]

The Kid has it. Thumb Safety, Grip Safety, and Firing Pin Safety, which on a Series 80 weapon, blocks movement of the firing pin unless the trigger moves to the rear enough to operate the FPS up and out of the way.

Your trigger finger is an integral part of the S80 mechanism, as it has to operate the trigger.

 

[Drail]

I think this is an interesting discussion. Personally, horizontal shoulder rigs have never bothered me, either wearing one or working with someone else wearing one. The whole concept of not POINTING a barrel at something you do not want to destroy can be taken too far sometimes. When I did smithing work I had to learn to be very concious of handling guns so none of them EVER got pointed at a customer (or another employee or myself). Then you get into the habit of never allowing a gun to point at another person even when working on a frame that has to barrel, or no trigger, or no cylinder, or no hammer. At some point you start to ask yourself, where do we draw the line between safety and paranoia? If you're driving down a highway behind a truck filled with new S&Ws on their way to the market and they are all laying in boxes with their barrels pointed back at your car do you worry about that fact? I carry DA revolvers in a Galco shoulder rig. The hammer is down and there is a heavy leather strap pinning the hammer down and securing the gun in the holster. I have taken falls including one from a motorcycle onto concrete and the gun never moved, never came out of the holster, or discharged. I don't think there is a real problem there. What does worry me is someone carrying certain types of semi auto pistols cocked and locked horizontally in an old worn out holster with a worn out snap on the retaining strap. If you're going to use a shoulder rig you MUST inspect it carefully for retention and make sure none of the stitching is failing and the snap is tight and snug and takes a little effort to release and that all of the rivets and fasteners are solid.

 

[martywinston]

I've been (editorially) looking into shoulder holsters.

Historically, as I understand it, the first was forged by a blacksmith using a "U" of spring steel wrapped in leather to hold a revolver vertically.

As noted in this thread and elsewhere, a vertical carry is intrinsically safer but with a usual (more or less long-pocket) holster, inconvenient and slow to draw, especially with full-size barrels.

I recently reviewed a SpringTac holster - slit along the bottom so it can hold a rail light - and to my thinking, a good starting point for a vertical-carry holster that, on a shoulder harness, might allow a draw that comes out barrel down in one motion then lets the barrel swing up to acquire its target.

I don't think a shoulder holster is a bad idea but I do think that the current designs of them may account for their relatively low popularity.