Why isn't 357 sig popular?

[firecracker6]

It seems like 357 sig would be popular w/ IPSC or IDPA shooters but from what little I've seen it isn't. It's supposed to be an extremely accurate round and it's about as powerful as 38 super so why don't more people use it? It's also said to be extremely reliable.

 

[gkitch]

I like it. It is an excellent round for many things.

For shooters who handload it provides complexities that a straight walled casing does not. For a shooter who does not handload, it is more expensive than 9mm, 40, and 45. These are the disadvantages that keep the round a less-than-popular option.

It is an ideal round for carry though. Accurate, powerful, reliable, and all in a high-capacity yet handy sized weapon. I have one on me now.

 

[Mack]

Because it doesn't perform any better than a good 9 MM unless you are shooting at targets in cars and like gkitch stated it is even more expensive than .45.

 

[Will Carry]

Actually the .357 Sig does perform better than the 9mm, .40S&W and the 45acp. That is why my local police dept uses them as standard issue. I don't own any pistols in that caliber but I may soon.

 

[JamesFlowers]

For competition it offers no benefits....

Against 9mm, the larger case means less ammo in the same magazine. Approximately 3-5 rounds difference in a 140mm magazine.

Against 40 S&W it means a hotter load to make the same power factor.

Plus since 357 SIG is a 9mm bullet, it does not make major by rule in any Division except OPEN and REVO. IPSC (not USPSA) now allows it to make major in Standard but that is due to "Not larger than .358" civilian handgun laws.

 

[Mack]

Actually not really better, here is a link to gel tests done my Doc Roberts, unlike in the past all good quality bullets perform extremely well. Again unless you are shooting through barriers a 9 MM is just as good. Speed is not everything, notice the heavier .40 outperforms the .357.

Self Defense and Duty Load Information - 1911Forum

 

[gkitch]

For carry, it offers 357 Magnum ballistics in a high-cap semi auto with lower felt recoil and lower muzzle flash than the tried and true wheelguns. Not a bad resume' indeed.

I have a full size M&P in 357 Sig with a spare 40 S&W bbl. I am quite pleased with this arrangement.

 

[Mack]

I don't see any big advantage to the .357, compare it to the 9 MM 147 grain on this chart.

http://le.atk.com/pdf/GoldDotPoster.pdf

Yes the .357 has a big energy advantage, 528 ft lbs to 301 but that does not buy you any more stopping power. What matters is penetration and expansion. With the ammo costs and reloading draw backs .357 is not for me. YMMV.

 

[CCWKY]

I recently saw some information about the Virginia State Police that have been using 357 Sig for many years, if I remember correctly every officer involved shooting using 357 Sig has resulted in a one shot stop except for one incident. I would call that pretty impressive.

 

[StatesRightist]

The .357 Sig does not match the .357 magnum ballistics, that is an urban legend. It does not perform better from a defensive stand point than +P 9mm rounds and is more expensive to shoot. It's only advantages are it shoots flatter at distance, but minimally, it's louder and harder to find ammo for.

What you essentially have is a 9mm bullet sitting on top of a .40 body. If you feel compelled to buy a .357 Sig, buy a 10mm, then at least handloads provide some of the advantages claimed for the .357 Sig.

Everybody is different, but there is no distinct advantage to the .357 Sig.

 

[StatesRightist]

I recently saw some information about the Virginia State Police that have been using 357 Sig for many years, if I remember correctly every officer involved shooting using 357 Sig has resulted in a one shot stop except for one incident. I would call that pretty impressive.

I'd like to see your source for this.......

 

[growr]

In any of the competitive games it offers no advantage with significantly higher expense.
Randy

 

[colt_saa]

The .357 Sig does not match the .357 magnum ballistics, that is an urban legend. It does not perform better from a defensive stand point than +P 9mm rounds and is more expensive to shoot. It's only advantages are it shoots flatter at distance, but minimally, it's louder and harder to find ammo for.

What you essentially have is a 9mm bullet sitting on top of a .40 body. If you feel compelled to buy a .357 Sig, buy a 10mm, then at least handloads provide some of the advantages claimed for the .357 Sig.

Everybody is different, but there is no distinct advantage to the .357 Sig.

I am not sure that there is a single correct statement in this post.

The .357 Sig does not match the .357 magnum ballistics, that is an urban legend. .

The goal of the 357SIG was to develop a semi automatic duty cartridge that would offer ballistics similar to the number one stopping cartridge of all time. The 125 JHP 357 Magnum when carried in 2 1/2" - 3" revolvers.

According to most published factory figures the 125 JHP 357 Magnum leaves a 4" ported barrel at 1450 FPS. As we know most factory statistics are slightly exaggerated. Winchester 125 JHPs averaged 1315 FPS when fires from three different 3 1/2" model 27s that I had access to on that day.

In contrast the Federal 125 JHP 357 SIG load was chronograpned out of a P229, P239 and USPc. The firearms produced 1350, 1341 and 1331 respectively.

To me that sounds like SIG achieved their goal for the 357SIG

It does not perform better from a defensive stand point than +P 9mm rounds and is more expensive to shoot. It's only advantages are it shoots flatter at distance, but minimally, it's louder

Based on your thinking the 357 Magnum would fall into EXACTLY the same category as not being a better stopper than the 9MM +p.

After all a 357 Magnum is only a faster 9MM. The difference between .355 diameter and .357 diameter is meaningless for stooping power.

If you feel compelled to buy a .357 Sig, buy a 10mm, then at least handloads provide some of the advantages claimed for the .357 Sig.

You have got to be kidding me. The 10MM requires a full size platform to be fired from. Also for firearm longevity it requires a steel frame whereas a 40/357/9 can all be place on alloy framed firearms. One of the goals of the 40/357SIG cartridges was to put more than 9MM power in a platform that is 9MM sized.

Everybody is different, but there is no distinct advantage to the .357 Sig.

Simply not true. For a 9MM to begin approaching 357 SIG performance it is necessary to exceed SAAMI pressure limits for the cartridge by a significant degree. This is why +p and +p+ designations exist, as a warning to users that this is intended only for firearms of modern design that are in good mechanical condition. The 357SIG achieves it's performance without exceeding the pressures it was designed to work at.

 

[colt_saa]

My appologies to the OP since my previous post is off topic

 

[StatesRightist]

I am not sure that there is a single correct statement in this post. ---well you would be wrong.

The goal of the 357SIG was to develop a semi automatic duty cartridge that would offer ballistics similar to the number one stopping cartridge of all time. The 125 JHP 357 Magnum when carried in 2 1/2" - 3" revolvers. ----you are attempting to qualify the argument on your terms----fail. Also, most troopers, road officers carried 4" guns.

---I could care less what the "goal" was---the original .357 mag loads were at 1500 fps and it offers loads up to 180 grains. My primary point was the .357 sig does not offer the same flexibility in loads or mirror the standard 4" carry gun.--thanks for playing. Put a .357 in an 8 inch barrel with a 180 gr round and you have a deer stopper.

According to most published factory figures the 125 JHP 357 Magnum leaves a 4" ported barrel at 1450 FPS. As we know most factory statistics are slightly exaggerated. Winchester 125 JHPs averaged 1315 FPS when fires from three different 3 1/2" model 27s that I had access to on that day.

In contrast the Federal 125 JHP 357 SIG load was chronograpned out of a P229, P239 and USPc. The firearms produced 1350, 1341 and 1331 respectively.

To me that sounds like SIG achieved their goal for the 357SIG

Based on your thinking the 357 Magnum would fall into EXACTLY the same category as not being a better stopper than the 9MM +p. ===you have 180 gr 9mm loads, really? A we're talking results not paper tigers, you must be a numbers junkie, I'm a results guy.

After all a 357 Magnum is only a faster 9MM. The difference between .355 diameter and .357 diameter is meaningless for stooping power.

You have got to be kidding me. The 10MM requires a full size platform to be fired from. Also for firearm longevity it requires a steel frame whereas a 40/357/9 can all be place on alloy framed firearms. One of the goals of the 40/357SIG cartridges was to put more than 9MM power in a platform that is 9MM sized. ====ever heard of 10mm glocks?

Simply not true. For a 9MM to begin approaching 357 SIG performance it is necessary to exceed SAAMI pressure limits for the cartridge by a significant degree. This is why +p and +p+ designations exist, as a warning to users that this is intended only for firearms of modern design that are in good mechanical condition. The 357SIG achieves it's performance without exceeding the pressures it was designed to work at.

---so in other words--yes as I said there are 9mm loads which come very close to Sig .357 loads and no one, no police dept etc is worried about using +p rounds in their polymer guns....except maybe you and a few exceptions.

My over arching point was whether you look at Doc Roberts data or street results the .357 Sig's results are no better than a +p 9mm round. You can do your dance and talk about fps etc, it's irrelevant, what is relevant is end results, which are no better than top 9mm loads.

 

[David LaPell]

The .357 Sig isnt as popular as it should have been because it didn't deliver on it's ballistics. Sig Sauer created the .357 Sig to be an equal to the .357 Magnum so the shooter would have the power of the Magnum in a pistol. It didn't happen. Don't get me wrong, the .357 sig is a great round, but the .40 is better and if you can the same size gun with more power, well which would you choose?
The 125 grain Hornady XTP in a .357 Magnum is 1,500 fps and the 124 grain XTP is 1,350 fps. It is still a good round though, better than the 9mm.

I did this one a while back. Don't get me wrong, I like the .357 Sig and will probably buy one someday, but it just didn't live up to the hype.

Noble Experiment meets Tried and True: The .357 Sig versus the .357 Magnum - Gun News at Guns.com

 

[StatesRightist]

9mm vs .357 Sig results according to Doc Robers.....it clearly says NO, there is no appreciable difference between 9mm and .357 Sig.

Best Choices for Self Defense Ammo

Someone want to claim to be better versed on the subject than him?

 

[StatesRightist]

The .357 Sig isnt as popular as it should have been because it didn't deliver on it's ballistics. Sig Sauer created the .357 Sig to be an equal to the .357 Magnum so the shooter would have the power of the Magnum in a pistol. It didn't happen. Don't get me wrong, the .357 sig is a great round, but the .40 is better and if you can the same size gun with more power, well which would you choose?
The 125 grain Hornady XTP in a .357 Magnum is 1,500 fps and the 124 grain XTP is 1,350 fps. It is still a good round though, better than the 9mm.

I did this one a while back. Don't get me wrong, I like the .357 Sig and will probably buy one someday, but it just didn't live up to the hype.

Noble Experiment meets Tried and True: The .357 Sig versus the .357 Magnum - Gun News at Guns.com

Nice write up on .357 Sig's...

 

[finishman]

not mainstream because it's not easy or fast to reload. ok for police who don't reload but i will have no interest in it because of the necked case.

 

[CCWKY]

This information came off another website

I'd like to see your source for this.......

Because of its relatively high velocity for a handgun round, the .357 SIG has a very flat trajectory, extending the effective range. However, it does not quite reach the performance of the .357 Magnum with bullets heavier than 125 grains (8.1 g), with the same usable barrel lengths, the typical commercial loadings using 125-grain (8.1 g) bullets, fired from a four-inch (102 mm) barrel; a typical commercial .357 Magnum load propels a 125-grain (8.1 g) bullet to 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s), while a typical .357 SIG load propels the same bullet to 1,350 ft/s (410 m/s), with only a usable 2.85-inch (72 mm) barrel. Specialty loads, such as Double Tap Ammunition, are able to propel a 125-grain (8.1 g) bullet to 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s) from a four-inch (102 mm) barrel. Offsetting this general slight disadvantage in performance is the fact that semi-automatic pistols tend to carry considerably more ammunition than revolvers.
Also like the Tokarev, the .357 SIG works well when shooting through barriers. There has been a documented case in Texas where a police officer's .45 round did not penetrate a tractor-trailer's shell, but a .357 SIG round from a backup officer's gun did, killing the suspect inside. The round's ability to penetrate barriers is the main reason for its adoption by law enforcement agencies. However, other documented police shootings have confirmed the round's ability to not over penetrate the body, even though ballistic gelatin shows 16 inches (410 mm) of penetration through heavy clothing (125 grain Speer Gold Dot). The Virginia State Police have had several documented officer-related shootings involving the .357 Sig, and in every case, not only were the felons stopped instantly with one shot (except one who was shot several times while attempting to murder an officer), the bullet either didn't exit the felon, or was stopped in the clothing upon exiting, proving that even at such high velocities, the round when used with adequate expanding hollowpoints will not over penetrate soft tissue. The same department has also reported that attacking dogs have been stopped dead in their tracks by a single shot, whereas the former subsonic 147 grain 9 mm duty rounds would require multiple shots to incapacitate the animals.[11]