Time for Revolver Reality Truth?

[arc2x4]

BTW I have two children ages 14 and 16, both started shooting .22 rifles at age 5. Pistols when they were ready , My daughter at age 7 and son at 8. They both started with a J frame sized Taurus model 94 revolver and then a Browning buckmark. Both have shot Glocks, sigs, HK USPs and 1911's that I own. They still like revolvers and ask to take them to the range.

My daughter always refers to revolvers at Cowboy Guns, and yes I have an SAA she also shoots.
My son will tell you his favorite center fires are:
1. My S&W PC 627 8 shot .357 which is a 2006 vintage,
2. My Kimber CC Target 1911, and
3. my HK USP ELite.

Recently we shot a steel plate match at our club, he used the USP which jammed (I only had semi wadcutter loaded) we then switched guns and he used the KCCT to finish the match.

Next time he told me at the end, He is using the 627 PC "as it's the most accurate gun we own, and IT NEVER JAMS EVER."

 

[DonD]

I agree with gettting the younger generation involved but until they can find a quality revolver why bother.Chuck

Geez, another "they don't make them the way they used to". For the most part it's good they don't. New S&Ws are fine firearms. Don

 

[DonD]

This may have been said already: It's not old school attitudes that's hurting our "sport"...it's poor quality control, poor customer service, poor metallurgy, and the less than desirable products these things produce as a whole that's hurting our "sport".

Poor customer service? That isn't what S&W is known for. Current guns, particularly the big bores are made of better materials held to tighter tolerances. Don

 

[CWH44300]

Poor customer service? That isn't what S&W is known for. Current guns, particularly the big bores are made of better materials held to tighter tolerances. Don

I couldn't agree more with you, I hope I don't get kicked out of the club for this, I own stainless 44magnums from the year they were introduced all the way through to the new era, I have been shooting 44's since I was a teenager and the newer guns will shoot just as good as the older versions the only difference is they will last a lot longer , yes I hate the lock and the MIM, but that has been my experience , I have old 629's that will never get shot, I have old 629's that I shoot, but the ones that get shot the most are the newer ones and I've had no problems what so ever ,and I have nothing bad to say about them...

 

[SixGunHunter]

With S&W the lock verses no lock is not the problem as there are plenty of both out there and used revolvers in great shape are still cheaper then new ones in most cases. The real problem is getting new shooters past the hi cap semi auto pistol because to young people that's where it's at for them based on what they see in the action movies and hear their peers talking about.
My son was zeroing his bolt action rifle last year in NY for an Elk hunting trip in Colorado and when he looked down the firing line there were 15 black semi auto rifles for every bolt action rifle on the line. It's the same at my shooting club here in Arkansas because when I go I'm usually one of the few shooting revolvers and bolt action rifles.

Wow! What an interesting thread. Thanks OP.

I read as far as #25 and had to stop. Talk about a perfect analogy. Bolt Rifle and the Black Semi Rifles!

Back to reading post #26.

My Dad had a M28 HP. Long sold off. We are a hunting family, so our home growing up did not have M37's M10's or any auto to speak of. Lever actions and shot guns took care of what we wanted to hunt.
Today, I own M60 (CC), M28 HP (because Dad had one) and M686 6" I use for hunting. I was hunting with Ruger 44's, but was lured to S&W just a yr. ago.

My Wife is "the future" as far as I am concerned, as I don't have kids.
Because of failure with her .22 auto I got her to handle and fire my M28 shooting 38's. Hooked!!! I know for a fact that someday I am going to find a M10, 19 or similar and she is going to be in her glory.

Why?

She can bang off 10 rds. of .22 and slap another mag. With a revolver She has to hand load 6 rds. into each chamber. Pull the hammer back and fire or she can just pull the trigger for DA. She is taking her time! She is enjoying those 6 rds. each and every one of them. She has enough recoil to make it fun, but not scare her. Open the cylinder and all the spent brass falls into her hand, unlike the .22 she has to pick up off the ground.
Her Accuracy is better and that makes Her Proud...me too.

If I put a bolt or semi in front of her she will pick the bolt most times, for the very same reasons I just posted.

Revolvers are Fun, Bolts are Fun. They can teach you better than an auto or semi, although all of them have their place and I would not be without any of them.

Back to reading post #26.

 

[stantheman86]

New S&W's are stronger than ever............30 or even 20 years ago, I don't think the X-frame would have been possible.

Advances in CNC machinery, precision fitting and better metallurgy have made for stronger, longer lasting revolvers.

 

[DonD]

New S&W's are stronger than ever............30 or even 20 years ago, I don't think the X-frame would have been possible.

Advances in CNC machinery, precision fitting and better metallurgy have made for stronger, longer lasting revolvers.

Absolute truth in my view.

Understand my biases, of course some of the older Smiths are beautiful guns, deep lustrous blueing and so on. Guns well worth having and appreciating but saying the new guns are junk is simply laughable. Don

 

[northslope]

By far the most important thing is to get new shooters excited about the sport; to make them passionate about firearm safety, and to get them invested in the desire to keep it a part of American life.

I'm all for sitting around to debate the merits of non-rebounding hammers on Winchesters, or whether or not S&W should have moved the gas ring from the yoke to the cylinder in the -4 revision of the Model 19...but let's not fool ourselves: that kind of intense bickering occasionally featured on gun forums drives people AWAY from our sport.

Let's not lose sight of the important thing: minting as many new shooters as we can.

--Neill

 

[Practical]

I really enjoy shooting revolvers and as range guns they excel.

For all situations self-defense, they are obsolete.

If you realistically compare the ammo payload, ease of training a new shooter, ease of carry and current reliability, semi-autos are likely MORE reliable for current police issue pistols when compared to todays revolvers due to revolvers being a COMMERCIAL product.

If you really think about the time to reload, ability of the average shooter to handle a revolver versus a semi-auto, I consider todays revolvers, to be the modern equivalent of a a 2 shot derringer. You have to break the gun down to reload and the ammo capacity is 2.5 times for a semi-auto to a revolver. The same as a single action revolver to a derrienger.

From a realistic perspective of looking at all possible criminal encounters, only a hi-capacity auto offers a competitive option.

 

[M3Stuart]

I really enjoy shooting revolvers and as range guns they excel.

For all situations self-defense, they are obsolete...

To the extent that totality of opinion can be expressed in our current metaphysical realm; I respectfully disagree.

I would articulate further, citing statistics of every imaginable variety. But methinks though mind is made up. As is mine.

 

[gumpys]

There is really no reason to own a revolver for self defense when the semi auto can shoot 2X+ the rounds more accuratly and faster than a revolver.

Not true one bit. I can reload my Smith 625 v-comp and shoot it more accurately and faster than any semi-auto you own. Hole through hole, through hole, like to see your semi- auto do that non stop.
Eric

 

[arc2x4]

For all situations self-defense, they are obsolete.

If you realistically compare the ammo payload, ease of training a new shooter, ease of carry and current reliability, semi-autos are likely MORE reliable for current police issue pistols when compared to todays revolvers due to revolvers being a COMMERCIAL product.

If you really think about the time to reload, ability of the average shooter to handle a revolver versus a semi-auto, I consider todays revolvers, to be the modern equivalent of a a 2 shot derringer. You have to break the gun down to reload and the ammo capacity is 2.5 times for a semi-auto to a revolver. The same as a single action revolver to a derrienger.

From a realistic perspective of looking at all possible criminal encounters, only a hi-capacity auto offers a competitive option.

You are so right, NOT, a couple of years ago the Philadelphia police department armed with Glock 17s managed to fire 126 rounds of ammo at a fleeing suspect in a crowded neighborhood at 2 pm in the afternoon. Fortunately no one was hit by the stray rounds, a miracle in itself to be sure. The fleeing felon had stolen a police car, and was later found to have been hit one time in the side, a wound that did not slow him down as he escaped.

Had the officers been armed with revolers instead of G17s perhaps they would have been able to actually shoot, and would have hit the suspect instead of turning a crowded neighborhood into swiss cheese.

It ain't the arrow its the injun... Being able to shoot more rounds and miss faster never wins a gunfight, its being able to hit what you are shooting at. The fewer rounds fired the safer it is for everyone.

Here is a more recent tale of the effectiveness of autos in police hands:

http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/la_cops_fire_120_rounds_unarmed_suspect.htm

and another:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-201_162-57413702/more-than-90-rounds-fired-at-la-chase-suspect/

JMHO YMMV

 

[18DAI]

M29since14 - Model 53, 6 inch blue. My cousins revolver. My uncle bought him a second cylinder, 22 LR, for it. Sorry, I thought that the 53 was a K-frame.

It was very similar in size to the 6 inch 19 I had at that time. I'm recalling from 1973 and was only 13 at the time. Regards 18DAI

 

[Shooting Padre]

The reality around here is young guys have almost zero interest in revolvers. They see them as an obsolete weapon platform. There is some interest in J frames as casual carry guns, but if someone is going to wear a belt and holster they are going to carry a semi auto with double the revolvers ammo payload.

That being said you will sometimes find a younger guy who like revolvers. That guy should be cultivated revolver wise but you don't find a guy under 30 who is interested in carrying a K frame concealed very often.

Sad but those are the facts. Young guys view carrying a six shooter about like we view carrying a cap a ball revolver.

I'm 64 and in love with my S&W Revolvers. Does that mean I'm still young? I own a 10, 36, 15 and 18 plus M&P 9 and 22.
Great guns all, but the wheel guns have special place in my heart. My first introduction to S&W revolvers was a Model 15 in the Air Force as an AP.

 

[Invictus357]

Absolute truth in my view.

Understand my biases, of course some of the older Smiths are beautiful guns, deep lustrous blueing and so on. Guns well worth having and appreciating but saying the new guns are junk is simply laughable. Don

I concur. I sampled a brand new 629 at the gun shop and it was exquisite in every detail.

 

[Badquaker]

Yada yada yada
my guns better than yours
Yada yada yada
My technique is better than yours
Yada yada yada
My magic bullet is better than yours
Yada yada yada
Your revolver is as ancient as a rock, my Tupperware super capacity semi automatic is a laser.
Yada yada yada


Lots of people have been killed by rocks. It only takes one well placed shot, and most gunfights take a lot less than six rounds. Extra bullets have become a crutch to those that can't hit their target.

Now for a game gun, where 10+ targets are the norm, the auto should have the advantage. Even then, its more about the competitor, than the gun. A $5k race gun does make a bad shooter good, it just helps him miss faster.

 

[DonD]

Now for a game gun, where 10+ targets are the norm, the auto should have the advantage. Even then, its more about the competitor, than the gun. A $5k race gun does make a bad shooter good, it just helps him miss faster.

Funny and true. I would never criticize someone who carries a Glock 17 with two spare mags for CCW, it if makes them happy, fine by me. But, how many civilians in the US have ever been in a situation where they needed 57 rounds (19X3)?? I'd be surprised if you could find any and if you did was the shooter just spraying the general area out of panic? Don

 

[Maximumbob54]

Basically, my main argument is that the "older generation" always thinks the "older stuff is better".

I think the real truth is that many people are resistant to change. It's just human nature, I'm sure when I'm much older I will be the same way, "when I got into shooting we didn't have this, and that, and laser guided bullets........etc...."

If you grew up shooting when S&W's were hand fitted, you won't think a CNC and MIM revolver is any good. If you grew up in the "era of technology" like I did, you're more accepting of new technology.

I am a firm believer that the "problems" of S&W's new revolvers are magnified by the internet. When someone buys a used Model 10-8 made in 1981 and it has issues, they really can't blame S&W as much. But when a guy buys a new 686 with issues, before sending it back to the factory he goes on every internet forum bashing the gun and S&W and then starts a countdown of the days his gun has been gone..........and then half the time you never hear from him again because the "problem" got corrected and he got his gun back in 8 days.

How many guys back in the 1930's got a new S&W with a crooked barrel, bad timing, spits lead etc. Back in those days you just brought it back to the store and they gave you a new one, and the shop owner shipped the lemon back to S&W. Guys weren't jumping on their laptops and Blackberries to trash the new 32-20 M&P they just bought that was a piece of garbage.

So these days it's up to the company if they are allowing a retail store to do that kind of thing, if the retail store is willing to put up with that headache, and then Johnny Law says you have to pay for another back ground check to pick up the gun that you already got the blessing on in the first place. So maybe the issue isn't quite just the quality control rolling off the factory floor but also a reality check with modern day business theory on customer service and what we have allowed generations of politicians to push into law books. Forget ILS's, MIM parts, and CNC milling, we have allowed the people factor to ruin more things than guns.

 

[TNDave]

I'm 64 and in love with my S&W Revolvers. Does that mean I'm still young? I own a 10, 36, 15 and 18 plus M&P 9 and 22.
Great guns all, but the wheel guns have special place in my heart. My first introduction to S&W revolvers was a Model 15 in the Air Force as an AP.

Just young at heart I guess. I love my round guns too but like the old song "Devils Right Hand" says, they shoot as fast as lightening but they load a might slow.

 

[PuertoRican]

arc2x4. You cite an interesting scenario but you assume too much. The cops inaccurate shooting cannot be objectively attributed to the use of semis. They may well have simply been lousy shots & not none any better had they been using revolvers. It happens.
I will admit that at any significant distance I am much more accurate with my revolvers than my PT-145. However in a close encounter of the worst kind, distance will be an unlikely factor. In those situations I feel a lot more secure with 11 rounds of 230gr HP at my disposal if I choose to use them.