Letter sent to Obama on UN gun treaty

[McBear]

It's a safe bet there won't be specific language in the treaty that states American's will no longer be be able and buy and sell guns. While that may satisfy some, there are others with a longer view.

I think Former UN Ambassador, John Bolton, sums up general domestic concerns quite well. I particularly agree with Bolton when he says (paraphrasing) that the current administration knows they can't get much done with just a domestic gun control sales job, and will use an international agreement as an excuse to get domestically what they couldn't otherwise.

NO, NO, NO. That is just pure Fear, Uncertainty and Dread...nothing else. There is zero to support that premise. The FUD folks might as well say that, if passed everyone has to dye their hair purple. It's just not based on reality.

Oh, dang, I wasn't suppose to let that secret plan out. Forget you read that last part.

 

[redlevel]

Soverign nations are EXEMPT!! It is targeted to stop "illict" (their word, not mine) trade in small arms.

I'll not address your other arguments, although I think they are off-base. Only this . . . if sovereign nations are not affected, then what business is it of ours? What business do we have being a signatory? How can it do us any good?

Even though it does not affect internal laws in a sovereign nation, do you see how it might possibly make procurement of very popular sporting and self-defense weapons imported into the US each year?

One more point. You feel the efforts in opposition to our signing the Treaty are wasted. Far from it. There is nothing wasted when organizations such as NRA can illustrate their power and ability to rally the troops. My own Congress critter is mentioned in the linked article. Sanford Bishop is a liberal Democrat, with a miserable "10" rating from the American Conservative Union. However, he has become a staunch supporter of 2nd Amendment issues because he knows that loss of his "A+" NRA rating would spell the end of the line for his election chances. He signed the letter, and he signed the earlier letter to Eric Holder urging he and Obama not to pursue passage of another AWB. He knows which side his bread is buttered on, mainly because he has seen the power of the NRA.

 

[redlevel]

NO, NO, NO. That is just pure Fear, Uncertainty and Dread...nothing else. There is zero to support that premise. The FUD folks might as well say that, if passed everyone has to dye their hair purple and become gay. It's just not based on reality.

Oh, dang, I wasn't suppose to let that secret plan out. Forget you read that last part.

Can you assure me with 100% certainty that the popular Benelli and Beretta semi-automatic shotguns manufactured outside this country will be available to us if we become a signatory? That other guns regularly imported into the US will continue to be available? That foreign manufactured ammo that has become popular in recent years will still be available?

Do you recall Obama's statement that he would have to work "under the radar" to achieve anti-gun goals? Do you believe Obama is a friend of gun-owners? Do you believe he hasn't pursued anti-gun objectives because he isn't really opposed to gun ownership in a free state? Do you trust him?

 

[alabamabarry]

The United States needs to get out of the U.N. and tell them to kiss out*&^%

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

What violates the Constitution depends on who you ask in Washington.

Your question is like saying that since the 2A specifically says the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, how could a law be passed that infringed? I think laws like the NFA, GCA, AWB (now expired) and others are clear infringements. Using circular logic, they can't possibly be infringements because the 2A forbids infringement, and therefore no law ever written is an infringement.

Remember earlier in the thread someone posted the below.

[[[ "Respect for the sovereignty of state-parties and non-interference with "internal affairs" or "constitutional provisions;"

In other words...it in no way affects the 2nd Amendment or ANY gun rights for those of us in the United States. ]]]]

Well there you have it.... as long as it says it's not a violation of or Constitution, then it can't be, nor any interpretation for compliance that this administration dreams up could possibly violate our Constitution because it says so right there!

 

[jlrhiner]

Well, I give up.

Damn the UN! Throw them out!

Quietly searching for purple hair dye

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Well, I give up.

Damn the UN! Throw them out!

Quietly searching for purple hair dye

There ya go my friend! Enjoyed the friendly exchange.

 

[redlevel]

It is a shame that 130 congresscritters didn't take the time to actually read the language within the Arms Trade Treaty. If they had they would have seen the very specific language that says...

"Respect for the sovereignty of state-parties and non-interference with "internal affairs" or "constitutional provisions;"

In other words...it in no way affects the 2nd Amendment or ANY gun rights for those of us in the United States.

The unfettered spread of Fear, Uncertainty and Dread is a dangerous thing and one of the most harmful diseases to a democrazy [or Constitutional Republic].

Do I correctly infer from your posts that you think passage of the Treaty would be a good thing? Do you think the UN has, at anytime since the late 1950s, had the best interests of the United States at heart? I asked before, but what good do you think could accrue to the US from passage of the Treaty? I have studied International Relations and International Organizations both as a hobby and as an academic pursuit for 40 years now, and I know that the UN has been a tool used by the rest of the world, and in particular 2nd and 3rd World nations, to frustrate US policy.

Do you trust Hilary Clinton or Barack Obama to have the best interests of gun owners at heart? Do you think that informed, educated people are becoming victims of your FUD when we suspect the motives of Obama, Clinton, and their dalliances with the UN? Are you telling us that we should just trust them and everything will be OK?

I think I'll pass.

 

[McBear]

Can you assure me with 100% certainty that the popular Benelli and Beretta semi-automatic shotguns manufactured outside this country will be available to us if we become a signatory? That other guns regularly imported into the US will continue to be available? That foreign manufactured ammo that has become popular in recent years will still be available?

Do you recall Obama's statement that he would have to work "under the radar" to achieve anti-gun goals? Do you believe Obama is a friend of gun-owners? Do you believe he hasn't pursued anti-gun objectives because he isn't really opposed to gun ownership in a free state? Do you trust him?

Unless you are a terrorist group or an agent for a third party nation...yes. Just read the treaty. The working language has only been around for nearly a decade. This is not some big secret cabal trying to sneak something under the radar. It has been published for years in every format.

Now, specifically to folks like Beretta...should they make a marketing decision to sell to rogue groups or supply to terror groups...it might be possible that they will get smacked. Note that THEY have to make a decision to take a whiz in the international arms Wheaties. And note that it doesn't nothing to affect OUR 2nd Amendment rights. I have read it a million times. At no point does it say I have a right to a specific brand of foreign weapons.

 

[McBear]

Do I correctly infer from your posts that you think passage of the Treaty would be a good thing? Do you think the UN has, at anytime since the late 1950s, had the best interests of the United States at heart? I asked before, but what good do you think could accrue to the US from passage of the Treaty? I have studied International Relations and International Organizations both as a hobby and as an academic pursuit for 40 years now, and I know that the UN has been a tool used by the rest of the world, and in particular 2nd and 3rd World nations, to frustrate US policy.

Do you trust Hilary Clinton or Barack Obama to have the best interests of gun owners at heart? Do you think that informed, educated people are becoming victims of your FUD when we suspect the motives of Obama, Clinton, and their dalliances with the UN? Are you telling us that we should just trust them and everything will be OK?

I think I'll pass.

Your inference is correct but your interpretation of FUD is not. It is not MY FUD. I am not the one suggesting FUD and strongly believe it damages those of us who have been gun owners for decades.

As for the UN and its relationship with the US...it is not suppose to "have the best interests of the United States at heart". It is a global organization of which we are ONE member. It is suppose to have the "best interests of the World at heart". That does not always line up with US policy although there are times it certainly does.

As for trusting Obama or Clinton with gun rights...in 40ish months they have done nothing to suggest that they are against my gun rights.

 

[Biginge]

Oh my. Blessed are those that do not expect much for they shall not be dissappointed.

Regards

Bill

 

[ladder13]

We are the world, we are the children(sing along now)....... No, I am NOT the world, I am American.

 

[redlevel]

As for trusting Obama or Clinton with gun rights...in 40ish months they have done nothing to suggest that they are against my gun rights.

You do not believe there was any nefarious intent to further the gun control agenda associated with Fast and Furious?

Appointment of an Atty General who expressed the opinion that American children should be "brainwashed" until they support gun control "every day (at) every school, at every level" does not suggest to you that they are against your gun rights?

There are plenty of other facts to support Obama's anti-gun stance. The fact is that an anti-gun push has not been politically expedient since he has been in office. The blood-letting by Democrats after passage of the Clinton AWB has become a cautionary tale for Democrat politicians.

Question for you, McB . . . are you a member of NRA? An other national or state pro-gun organizations? I'm just curious.

 

[ladder13]

What's a "cop killer" bullet?? Ban "assault" weapons? Is this someone with a Holder mask on?

Holder : Make Assault Weapons Ban Permanent - YouTube

 

[Biginge]

See my previous post once more.

Regards

Bill

 

[nipster]

Do you recall Obama's statement that he would have to work "under the radar" to achieve anti-gun goals? Do you believe Obama is a friend of gun-owners? Do you believe he hasn't pursued anti-gun objectives because he isn't really opposed to gun ownership in a free state? Do you trust him?

You mean the statement the BRADY FOUNDATION said he said...

This whole UN treaty thing and "obama is gonna take our guns" nonsense is complete FUD and honestly, if they are going to lock threads about politics and zimmerman, they should lock every one of these too, because they are utterly factless

Point is, Obama's first term is almost up and he has directly said nothing on gun control, not one thing. And there is no reason to believe he will ever do anything to do any arms control...

But the NRA dont like him, so they make stuff up. Sometimes I am embarrassed to be a member of the NRA. Like him or not, he's the president. Show the guy just 1 little bit of respect, and dont make stuff up to further your own political gains.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Holder : Make Assault Weapons Ban Permanent - YouTube

NRA video editing trickery... just making stuff up.

 

[redlevel]

NRA video editing trickery... just making stuff up.

More NRA trickery . . .

Eric Holder "Brainwash People" about Guns - YouTube

 

[McBear]

You do not believe there was any nefarious intent to further the gun control agenda associated with Fast and Furious?

Appointment of an Atty General who expressed the opinion that American children should be "brainwashed" until they support gun control "every day (at) every school, at every level" does not suggest to you that they are against your gun rights?

There are plenty of other facts to support Obama's anti-gun stance. The fact is that an anti-gun push has not been politically expedient since he has been in office. The blood-letting by Democrats after passage of the Clinton AWB has become a cautionary tale for Democrat politicians.

Question for you, McB . . . are you a member of NRA? An other national or state pro-gun organizations? I'm just curious.

Fast and Furious is a continuation of Gunrunner which started in 2006. Trying to attach a single party philosophy to it is erroneous.

And yet again there are no lists of things DONE by any administration that are anti gun. Just FUD.

To your NRA question...I became a member in 1970. I stopped when they engraved the 2nd Amendment on the side of the building, leaving out part of the words. That spoke volumes.

 

[McBear]

NRA video editing trickery... just making stuff up.

Other than the obvious little edit cuts in there...let's just look at what the Administration HAS ACTUALLY DONE. That would be zero.

So, we have a 1 minute clip where Holder references an off camera question, answers it honestly and...four years later there has been zero on it. Gotta admit...doing nothing is really a sneaky way to get things done.