It is indeed. I would imagine after the trial convicting "it" of multiple murders, the civil suits will begin.
Carrying where "No Guns" signs are posted.
- Thread starter blujax01
- Start date
It is indeed. I would imagine after the trial convicting "it" of multiple murders, the civil suits will begin.
Beats me, I'm in Ohio.
As a CC holder it is your responsibility to be aware of local laws, right? You may want to read your manual.
Well played lol. I thought you were playing all the angles at one time and you proved there was a additional angle you could play.
StatesRightist
Member
Try walking around your store nude and let me know how that works out. Have sex with your wife on a display couch in your furniture store business hours and see how that goes. Got sot faced, falling down drunk in your store and see if you get charged with public intoxication. Clearly your home with the blinds closed and your business are not the same in the legal system. Just as the second poster told you, you have your position and that's all it is, your position, it is not the only logical one. Obviously many people on here, don't think your position is the only one.
As I said in my original post, I generally avoid places with signs to be polite and avoid the hassle, but that does not mean I fail to see both sides of the issue. I tend to go your way more times than not, but at times for example, when I am driving out of town, need gas and see thugs all over the parking lot, I could care less what your sign says and I'm not running out of gas to appease you either.
I'm not trying to hassle you, but your argument is the simple part of the debate, not the answer. If it were a clear cut deal, the consensus would agree with you and it's clearly split.
Either way, good post, it's led to an interesting debate.
Here in the 49th and final state to allow concealed carry of guns, the law is clear.
If the owner posts a sign it must be 5"x7" minimum, and can say just about anything as long as it conveys the idea that you shouldn't have anything that could be construed as a weapon.... So just about any sign will work.
The punishment for ignoring such a sign is a fine of $200.
I know I'm not turning around and walking away in most cases. I am concealing and nobody knows.
I DO believe any business that REMOVES my right to defend myself should be responsible for my protection while in their establishment.
If the owner posts a sign it must be 5"x7" minimum, and can say just about anything as long as it conveys the idea that you shouldn't have anything that could be construed as a weapon.... So just about any sign will work.
The punishment for ignoring such a sign is a fine of $200.
I know I'm not turning around and walking away in most cases. I am concealing and nobody knows.
I DO believe any business that REMOVES my right to defend myself should be responsible for my protection while in their establishment.
This topic always cracks me up. There is no logical basis for establishing a gun-free zone. It accomplishes the opposite of what is intended, making an area more dangerous, not less. The people putting up such signs are being foolish. One of the C's in CCW stands for concealed. Keep it concealed and the foolish will be none the wiser. For those of you all bent out of shape over concern for the foolish one's property rights, well gee, I have to admire your sensitivity, if not your opinion.
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Not trying to be mean...but I think this is a strange mentally for an LEO.
As has already been said, comparing property rights and the God given right of self protection is not a valid arguement nor does it make sense.
If you posted a no tresspassing sign on your PRIVATE property, I would not tresspass. If I did I would expect to be approached. But either way, you would never know I was armed.
If you owned your own business and posted such a sign, I might enter if I chose to do so. And again, you would never know I was armed.
If I had to defend myself on your property, the last thing I'm concerned about are your property rights.
The right of self protection and preservation trumps any and all such property laws.
I defy and oppose anyone who tries to prohibit me from protecting myself because they don't like guns. Of course I will abide by Federal and state laws but that's it.
One major factor that some of you are forgetting is CONCEALMENT. If I was open carrying then maybe you would have a valid arguement.
If you posted a no tresspassing sign on your PRIVATE property, I would not tresspass. If I did I would expect to be approached. But either way, you would never know I was armed.
If you owned your own business and posted such a sign, I might enter if I chose to do so. And again, you would never know I was armed.
If I had to defend myself on your property, the last thing I'm concerned about are your property rights.
The right of self protection and preservation trumps any and all such property laws.
I defy and oppose anyone who tries to prohibit me from protecting myself because they don't like guns. Of course I will abide by Federal and state laws but that's it.
One major factor that some of you are forgetting is CONCEALMENT. If I was open carrying then maybe you would have a valid arguement.
What's so strange about it? That's normal thinking to me.
No man or no sign has the right to deny you the right to protect yourself unless they are supported by law.
And what about the people at the Colorado theater shooting? Where were their stinking rights?
Everybody is worried about their sorry property rights! What about those who died or were injured?
Your property rights or anti gun sentiments do NOT supercede human flesh and blood!!
Everybody is worried about their sorry property rights! What about those who died or were injured?
Your property rights or anti gun sentiments do NOT supercede human flesh and blood!!
One more thing. I'm on a roll, yes.
"No Guns Allowed" signs are not neccesarliy posted because the business opposes guns. They are also posted for insurance reasons and to avoid litigation if someone was injured by a firearm while on their property.
So again, I oppose such signs and will continue to carry there if I chose to. I'm not concerned about their worries.
"No Guns Allowed" signs are not neccesarliy posted because the business opposes guns. They are also posted for insurance reasons and to avoid litigation if someone was injured by a firearm while on their property.
So again, I oppose such signs and will continue to carry there if I chose to. I'm not concerned about their worries.
I can't believe you don't understand. Concealment is everything. It lets me quietly go about my business anywhere I choose within the law to protect myself.
Open carry does not. Now this isn't a discussion about concealed vs open carry, but my point is that concealed carry negates the discussion about property rights vs the right to self protection. What you don't know won't hurt you.
I can't believe we are even discussing this.
A) He denied you nothing. You chose to enter the store under the conditions he set, which is his right. You, and you alone, decide whether or not you will enter the store under those conditions - regardless of how much you really "need" something.
B) See above.
Your own post displays the lack of logic - and common sense of people who keep saying they are being denied their right to self protection. If self defense is so important to you; if protecting your wife is so important to you; if carrying a gun with you at all times is so important to you - don't go in, no one is forcing you to enter!
Yes, it's that simple and it's that black and white.
No it ain't that simple or black and white. If it was, 55 posts later, we would all agree. But we don't.
What you don't understand is that a SIMPLE sign like "We Reserve The Right To Refuse Service To Anyone" would suffice instead of singling out gun owners.
I mean can you think of any more idiotic sign to post in your place of business? I bet not. That's because they don't care about infringing on our gun rights. So why should I care about their stupid sign? Because they own the place? I don't think so. Selfishness and stupidity need to treated as such.
And I can go/walk anywhere I please and have the basic God given right to protect myself anywhere anytime whether you or someone else doesn't like it. And no man can deprive me of that basic right. Nor should they try.
I maintain what I said earlier, if you don't know I'm packin, what's the beef?
lhump1961
US Veteran
I don't want to rain on anyone's parade but all this talk about "rights" is giving me a headache. Let's face it...the only rights we have or will ever have are those recognized by the next person and given to us by whatever ruling authority we live under. Historically speaking worldwide there have never been "rights"...only what was allowed at the time. What we have is "ability". We are able to do what is allowed or made lawful up until such a time when the ruling authority changes their mind or is ousted. Where were the rights of the Jews in Europe in WWII? They didn't have any because the Nazi's wouldn't GIVE them any! How about the rights of any of the conquered peoples in history? All the slaves in history? The injustices of humanity are endless. These people's "rights" didn't come into play...only the reality of their situation. Some English monarchies required the populace to have personal weapons while others outlawed it entirely! Same place...different time.
I run a restaurant and can't believe the amount of people that thing they have the "right" to service...they don't. Misbehave and you are out!
We are lucky to live in a time of tolerance in a country that allows it. Only when we respect the choices of others can we then expect the same in return. If the sign says no guns then I have to respect that...take my gun off or don't go in...that's it. The alternative is worse. If no one recognizes your rights then you don't have any.
I run a restaurant and can't believe the amount of people that thing they have the "right" to service...they don't. Misbehave and you are out!
We are lucky to live in a time of tolerance in a country that allows it. Only when we respect the choices of others can we then expect the same in return. If the sign says no guns then I have to respect that...take my gun off or don't go in...that's it. The alternative is worse. If no one recognizes your rights then you don't have any.
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PA Guns & Ammo
Member
I carry everywhere I go legally. Even with places with signs saying "no guns", I carry. Only places like the post office, court house and some state land is off limits. The "no firearm" signs are not laws so if for some reason they find out I have one, they can ask me to leave which I have to or it is trespassing other than that I carry.
James
James
I guess I'm seeing this in a different way.
If you REALLY think that you need a firearm when you are
out and about, carry one. If not, leave it at home.
Since we're talking about businesses, if you carry, then
you are the only one that knows it.
It is ALWAYS about whether you think you need to carry.
I would imagine that many otherwise law-abiding people
in Chicago carry, every day. They know they're breaking the law,
but they want to live, too.
Your conscience is the final rule, not a sign or ordinance.
JMHO, TACC1
If you REALLY think that you need a firearm when you are
out and about, carry one. If not, leave it at home.
Since we're talking about businesses, if you carry, then
you are the only one that knows it.
It is ALWAYS about whether you think you need to carry.
I would imagine that many otherwise law-abiding people
in Chicago carry, every day. They know they're breaking the law,
but they want to live, too.
Your conscience is the final rule, not a sign or ordinance.
JMHO, TACC1
mc5aw
Member
Try doing all those things on the same visit ... Just don't carry a firearm, you might get in trouble.
Not until we discuss +P!
But thank you, it is a good debate. I'm most intrigued with those who acknowledge that the CC laws have specific statements about the "No Guns" sign, agreeing that in quite a few states that it "unlawful" or "forbidden" to carry in an establishment where such a sign is posted. Yet these folks feel that it is not breaking the law unless you get caught doing so.
And to those who say "I do not care if it is breaking the law I'm carrying anyway" I say: Why have a license in the first place?
The law is meaningless to you - save your money. You cannot enjoy the freedoms a law allows without also respecting it's restrictions.
