M&P vs. my 17HMR and other .22s

[PHXSHOOTER]

I have read all of the accuracy threads so I know my 15-22 is no tack driver. I know guns and ammo vary. I've seen the 1 inch groups some guys have posted here at 50 yards but I just can't do it. Until now I have been assuming my 3, 4 & 5 inch groups at 50 yards were my fault. I figured the gun could shoot better than me. Now I'm not so sure.

I wanted an economical bolt action rifle purely for accuracy. I had heard so many good things about the 17HMR I picked up a Savage bolt action that came with a Bushnell 3x9 scope. My 15-22 has a Nikon P-22 2x7 on it.

With the Savage I wanted a tack driver and I GOT IT! But here is my point. Same shooter (me) same conditions, as close as I could get them for both rifles and the Savage blew me away. Out of the box I walked in zero with the factory bore sighted scope in less than 15 rounds. After that I was consistently getting the one inch groups I have been after with my 15-22. The damn thing is so accurate and easy to shoot you can't miss. Switching back to the 15-22 I was still at 3 to 5 inch groups. I shoot mostly blazer. Next I am going to try a big varity of ammo testing to see if I can find a sweet one. Or maybe I am doing something wrong? Any suggestions for accuracy testing will be appreciated. I want to find out if maybe I have a 15-22 that is plainly just not accurate. Other than the large groups my M&P shoots like a dream. I am 4 or 5thousand rounds into it and it NEVER fails. It will run like a sewing machine no matter what I put in it.

The savage does have a variable trigger set at 2.5 pounds – my M&P is stock, maybe I am pulling them off wrong with the combat trigger? I will let you guys know if I can figure out how to get more accurate. Also, I have several other .22 rifles, I can shoot them all better than the M&P, even with iron

 

[Noahsdad]

Rimfires are horrendously known for being finicky about ammo. While the 15-22 wasn't designed to be a bench gun with accuracy in mind you may very well find one particular brand that performs much better than another. The biggest problem is that your limited to high velocity ammo. It's not uncommon to have different rim thicknesses and other variables as well. All of which directly relate to accuracy.

 

[Majorlk]

Another problem is the factory trigger in the 15-22. It takes a skilled shooter to overcome S&W's lousy, 7 lb trigger. If you really are out for accuracy, replace the trigger. There are several, reasonably priced, triggers that will give you a crisp, 3.0 lb (or less) pull.

You are doing your accuracy testing from a solid bench rest using a scope and not iron sights, aren't you?

 

[w0ady]

right trigger and right ammo first, until then its apples to oranges.

 

[Majorlk]

right trigger and right ammo first, until then its apples to oranges.

You got that right.

 

[rraisley]

right trigger and right ammo first, until then its apples to oranges.

Well, yeah, but considering that the Savage costs close to half what the 15-22 does, WITH a scope, it's an honest comparison. Of course, the ammo cost will catch up after a while...

 

[w0ady]

Well, yeah, but considering that the Savage costs close to half what the 15-22 does, WITH a scope, it's an honest comparison. Of course, the ammo cost will catch up after a while...

not really, they're built for 2 completely different purposes. the 15-22 will always be a lot more FUN than any bolt action rifle. however, the slow and methodical bolt action will be more about accuracy. personally i like modifying and dumping 25 rds down range fast.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

If you're doing your job, 3-5in groups at 50yds sounds like a loose barrel nut, optic or optic mount issue.

 

[hkyplr]

not really, they're built for 2 completely different purposes. the 15-22 will always be a lot more FUN than any bolt action rifle. however, the slow and methodical bolt action will be more about accuracy. personally i like modifying and dumping 25 rds down range fast.

Agreed, two different rifles, using 2 different types of projectiles, built for two different jobs. But I understand what you are questioning. Those groups out of the 15-22 do seem large. As Phil suggested check the barrel nut, leave the end cap loose, lock it down on a bench and then test it's accuracy. Remove as much human influence out of the equation as possible, if the accuracy is still bad, think about sending it back to S&W, may be something wrong with the firearm.

 

[mag318]

M&P15-22s have really good barrels so you should be getting better accuracy than that. I experimented with several loads in mine and found Federal 40 grn 710s to be the most accurate. This copper plated solid bullet load performs so well in my MOE model I bought 2 cases of it which should last a good while. If your rifle still shoots large groups with several different loads definately check the barrel nut.
Here's a large group I fired, but this was at 100 yards on a windless day. At 50 yards my groups are a third of this size. When you find a load your rifle favors you'll be amazed at the accuracy the 15-22 is capable of.

 

[PHXSHOOTER]

Thanks for the suggestions guys. I will check the barrel nut.

I am totally aware of the M&P 15-22 and a Savage 17HMR being two completely different guns. The point here is that with my skill level as THE shooter being the equalizer my 15-22 is the least accurate of the 5 rimfires I own.

I believe if you want to find out how accurate YOU are then you need to shoot an accurate gun. That is what I got the Savage for. The 15-22 will always be my "fun gun". And as RRAISLEY said for $279.00 fully equipped the Savage can serve as my target rifle. That little .17 is fast and true. Now I am trying to figure out if my 15-22 is less accurate than it should be. I can out shoot the 15-22 with my 70 year old Winchester Model 62 pump .22. Something must be wrong.

 

[weatherby]

I can out shoot the 15-22 with my 70 year old Winchester Model 62 pump .22. Something must be wrong.

and why is that?

 

[copper06]

I don't think you're comparing apples to apples is the issue if it's not the barrel nut or some such other thing that may be wrong with your rifle.

The 15-22 is more about being an AR platform that is for fun/training than it is about being accurate. Even comparing it to your pump action 22 isn't right. Compare it to another semi-automatic 22 rimfire if you want fair comparisons with you as the shooter. You'll find plenty of those comparisons here on this forum and elsewhere, probably with the vast majority of them being with the Ruger 10/22. That rifle has much lower mounted sights and with money invested can be a real tack driver. You'll spend a bit to get it there going by what I've read, but it's very possible.

Got a buddy's 10/22 you can bring to the range?

The best comparison I can give you is a father had posted here about his son beating him at target shooting with his bolt action rifle. The father, however, handily beat his son at steel plate timed shooting. My suggestion to him was to switch with his son for awhile.

The ranges you're shooting at will make a difference also again because the 15-22 sights are mounted rather high. I'd say a fair comparison can be had by keeping your ranges at no greater than 50 yards for the 22 round.

Hopefully you'll find the ammo. your rifle likes best as to accuracy/functioning and be the happier for it.

 

[PHXSHOOTER]

The Model 62 has iron sights, the 15-22 has a Nikon scope. I am usualy better with a scope at 50 yards.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

As far as comparing the 15-22 to other rifles, I think the only useful comparison is with other .22s in it's category.

American Rifleman did a comparison test of Tactical .22s in their Dec 2010 issue. They tested the Ruger SR22, Rem 597 VTR, Sig522, HK 416, GSG-522, Colt, 15-22 and Mossberg 702 tactical. The ammo used was CCI Tactical, RWS and CCI Select. As far as accuracy, the 15-22 came in the middle of the pack with an overall average of a little under 2in groups at 50yards. The top 4 came in this order- Ruger SR22, Rem597 VTR, Sig522 and 15-22.

my 15-22 is the least accurate of the 5 rimfires I own.

We can fix that. Get rid of your other rimfire rifles. According to the American Rifleman test, all you need to do is buy the HK416, GSG522, Colt and Mossberg 702 Tactical. Then you'll have 5 rimfires with the 15-22 being the most accurate!

Edit - Also check the top round in your mag after firing a shot. I had this happening.





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[Majorlk]

Anyone who attempts to equate the accuracy of a bolt-action rifle to a semi-automatic is due a high level of frustration. Besides, nowhere is the 15-22 advertised, or even suggested, that the 15-22 is a match or target-grade rifle.

It IS a reasonably accurate semi-automatic capable of 3-4 MOA with ammo it likes. I wish someone would explain why MOA accuracy is necessary in the type of shooting the 15-22 is used for.

Like another poster said last month, I can bust clay pigeons at 100 yards all day from the bench. If you want better than that, buy a Volquartsen. You sure won't get one for $450.

 

[rraisley]

If you want better than that, buy a Volquartsen. You sure won't get one for $450.

Or, buy the Savage for the better accuracy, and pocket the $180.

 

[ral2ooo]

Things to consider, trigger, ammo, bolt vs semi and the 17 HMR is just a damn accurate round. Bought a Marlin cheapy bolt action on a whim right when the 17 first came out. Paid about $180 nothing special just that old 22 mag cheapy they have made forever with a 17 HMR barrel on it. Considering how little it cost and how much better it shoots than some pretty expensive guns it kinda ticks me off.

RAL

 

[w0ady]

"combat accurate" is all i asked for and its what i got.

 

[hkyplr]

Dammit, now this thread is making me want to get a .17HMR.