Mystery Gun- What is it?

[Masterpiece]

Well, I have a professional photographer lined up that is willing to participate in this project. Now I need to talk with the owner of the mystery gun and see if he is willing to bring the gun to the studio and pull the side plate off again. My photog is very skilled in shooting (pics of) guns and told me he has macro lenses that allow him to shoot about a half inch object full frame.

Stay tuned.

Greg,

Thanks for the update!! Hopefully your photographer & the owner will be able to work something out so Charlie will have some high definition photos to aid in his search for the Mystery Gun's Provenance!! Good Luck!!

 

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

Owner and photographer are in touch. Turns out they actually know one another already!

On another note, the owner's wife was out visiting with source of the mystery gun and while going through things they found a box of very early Remington black powder 41 Short Colt ammunition. Obviously this does not mean the mystery gun is necessarily chambered for that, but I'm sure they would work and what good is any gun without ammo....

 

[DWalt]

Every sideplate screw is .120-44?

 

[Hondo44]

DWalt,

No, as usual the bug screw (top sideplate screw with large head) is different: #4 -48.

 

[dewey]

HONDO !

One page one I 'THOUGHT':

Prototype, 1901 .41 LC, I stand on that....for awhile anyway
dan

 

[Hondo44]

One page one I 'THOUGHT':

Prototype, 1901 .41 LC, I stand on that....for awhile anyway
dan

Well Dan,
I'm thinking at this point and with what we now know, you called it closer that anyone right from the gitgo!

Based on what Charlie Pate said in post #325: "....I believe it was submitted to the Army for their examination in the late 1890s....", your time period is certainly in the ballpark.

I also believe the .41 cal. is correct but not Long Colt. The chamber mouth to chamber shoulder has been established as too short for the inside lubricated bullet Long Colt (1.125" case).

The measured cylinder chamber dimensions quoted in post #157, pg. 4 and again in #320 above, the two .41 Long Colt cartrdiges dimensions post #320 above on this page, and the matching shortness of the .41 S&W cartrdige to the 1.055" chamber, the most logical and likely candidate is the .41 S&W.

 

[Varangi]

I thought i'd bump this with the latest info: The owner is working with a photographer to document the MG. There was a scheduling conflict but the process should start within the next couple of weeks. Should be interesting. I was not in the loop as to what happens after the pics are taken. When and where they are published is the ultimate question.

God Bless America!!

Mike

 

[Masterpiece]

Hi Mike,

Appreciate the update!! I'm very anxious to hear what Charlie has to say when he gets the new photos in-hand to work with!! I'm hoping they'll help in his search through Rock Island's Records!! Keep us posted if you hear of anything!!

Thanks Again!!

 

[Goony]

I thought i'd bump this with the latest info: The owner is working with a photographer to document the MG. There was a scheduling conflict but the process should start within the next couple of weeks. Should be interesting. I was not in the loop as to what happens after the pics are taken. When and where they are published is the ultimate question.

God Bless America!!

Mike

Mike, if somebody will contact me (a private message would be fine) once this photography has been done, I'll recontact Charlie and determine what manner would be best for furnishing these images to him. Also, I imagine he'll want some sort of release from the photographer and the gun's owner permitting his publishing them (I'm supposing the photographer will want byline credit for the work, regardless).

 

[Varangi]

Mike, if somebody will contact me (a private message would be fine) once this photography has been done, I'll recontact Charlie and determine what manner would be best for furnishing these images to him. Also, I imagine he'll want some sort of release from the photographer and the gun's owner permitting his publishing them (I'm supposing the photographer will want byline credit for the work, regardless).

I'll follow up with the owner and let you know- As far as the photographer goes- hopefully he will be cooperative and realize that we're not in this for the money or fame and release the photos with little fanfare...

Mike

 

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

Well, the glamor shots have been taken and are being provided to those individuals that will be doing further research on the mystery gun. I have heard nothing new otherwise, but just thought everyone would like an update that the wheels are turning.

During the photo shoot, I also got to see for the first time some very nice artifacts from the previous owner from his tenure at Rock Island Arsenal. I'm very excited to hear the final word on this gun and where it fits in the S&W puzzle.

Cheers!

Greg

 

[Masterpiece]

Hi Greg,

Thanks for the new update!! Sounds like things are progressing well!! Please keep us informed as time goes on!!

If you don't mind me asking, since you made mention of it, what else of interest was he able acquire during his time with Rock Island?? Not imperative to get too detailed, but just curious as to what else he may have acquired!! Thanks!!

 

[Varangi]

Hi Greg,

Thanks for the new update!! Sounds like things are progressing well!! Please keep us informed as time goes on!!

If you don't mind me asking, since you made mention of it, what else of interest was he able acquire during his time with Rock Island?? Not imperative to get too detailed, but just curious as to what else he may have acquired!! Thanks!!

This is the one TEASER photo I received from the Photographer- low resolution, but interesting non the less...

Mike

 

[Eddy's Shooting Sports]

Hi Greg,

Thanks for the new update!! Sounds like things are progressing well!! Please keep us informed as time goes on!!

If you don't mind me asking, since you made mention of it, what else of interest was he able acquire during his time with Rock Island?? Not imperative to get too detailed, but just curious as to what else he may have acquired!! Thanks!!

I don't know of any other items he may have acquired from RIA. What I was referring to are the artifacts in the photo just published. They support the provenance of the mystery gun having come from this gentleman and ties it to his obituary. Seeing as he had no apparent connection to S&W, it solidifies the notion that this revolver somehow was acquired from RIA.

BTW, the small medal is a 30 year service award from the arsenal.

 

[twaits]

Goony has a very good point about standard component usage....

Here are a few snapshots of an 1899 in my collection....

Serial No. 785, which should date from this same aproximate era....

Note the differences between the cylinder release, ejector rod and hammer.

Close copies maybe, but just not the same....

Drew

Drew, not to hijack this thread but this is a really great revolver. Is this sort of a "pre-M&P"? It took me a minute to realize there was no forward lock for the ejector rod. Is it .38 spl?

 

[twaits]

Hi Twaits,
I agree! And I'm so glad you posted your Model 1896 .32 because I think I see the little pad to protect extractor rod from being bent on the underside of your barrel like the mystery gun. But it could be a reflection. Pls see my post #332 above. Does yours have the pad?

I'm not sure what the pad is exactly but i took my other 1896 apart to compare the crane's. The 1896 also has the little detent that holds the cylinder in the open position.

Here's the mystery gun:

And here's my 1896:

 

[twaits]

Oh okay, I see the pad now. Yes mine has that:

Here's the one on the mystery gun:

 

[Muley Gil]

"Is this sort of a "pre-M&P"? It took me a minute to realize there was no forward lock for the ejector rod."

That is an 1899, the first K frame M&P. These were available in the .38 Service Cartridge (.38 Long Colt), .38 Special, and .32 Winchester (.32-20, .32 WCF).

 

[red9]

Yes, but it's a square butt model 1899. Is that the only known example of a second prototype?

Bob

 

[Hondo44]

Yes, but it's a square butt model 1899. Is that the only known example of a second prototype?

Bob

Bob,
There's only one example of the Mystery Gun. The M 1899 was a regular production model. Not sure what you mean by a second prototype??