M&P40 Pro for IDPA (10 rd mag?)

[Bushido]

Greetings, I am new to this forum and would like to purchase an S&W American made handgun to get into IDPA. That is my first objective. Glock and Springfield, as you know are not made in the USA...good guns, but I prefer to stay with an American product. I am looking at the M&P40 Pro as it has everything I am looking for (fiber optic front sight, 5"barrel, etc...) Seems like it would make a great IDPA gun. However, living in the great state of NY with our crazy gun laws, we are limited to 10rd mags. Does anyone know if MP40 Pro comes in a 10rd mag version? This is the M&P with a 5" barrel SKU178032. Does S&W manufacture a 5" semi in 50 with 10rd mag (compliant for NY)?

My option is to go with a SW1911 Pro Series, SKU178047 in 9mm which has a 10rd mag, 5" barrel.

Any other suggestions under the S&W for IDPA? Thanks a bunch guys and Thanks for having a new guy in your forum.

 

[OKFC05]

No offense, but you need to learn the IDPA Divisions for different types of guns before trying to buy the "best gun." Your choices are all over the map, and .40 is the orphan caliber in IDPA unless you handload to minor.

SSP is scored minor power no matter what you shoot, and the 9mm Pro fits it exactly. Limit 10 rounds in mag.

ESP is also scored minor, but is for single-action guns, including USPSA Limited guns loaded with 10 rounds. Your 1911 9mm would go into ESP. If you got the 1911 in .45, it would go into CDP, with 8 round limit.

Confused? Read the IDPA rules here:
http://idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf

A new IDPA rule book is being written as we speak.

By the way, the only difference is M&P "10 round guns" is the magazines.

 

[growr]

Amazing... the things you learn when you read the rule book!

When I shot IDPA I usually used my M19/66 4" and hks speedloaders. If I was shooting semi-auto then it was often my M39 or my 1911 Sc S&W.

Randy

 

[Bushido]

No offense taken.... I've read the IDPA rules....and yes, I am new to the sport, so there is a great deal to learn. But this was not what I was trying to find out.

Again, My primary question is "Does S&W's M&P40 Pro 5"barrel version of the M&P (SKU 178032) come in a 10 rd mag version....can it be ordered with 10 rd mags instead of the higher capacity mags, in order to be sold or purchased in NYS?" NYS has a 10 rd mag capacity limit and no handgun can be sold or purchased if it has mags of greater capacity. This really sucks for us, as it limits what can be sold or purchased, but we need to live with it. We can't purchase a handgun if it has a 12, 15, 17, 20 capacity mag. For example the Glock 34 and 35 are 5" barrel versions, but are sold with a configuration having 10 rd mags, as well as versions of higher capacity mags. The Springfield XDm on the other hand does not offer the lower capacity mag versions from the factory and Springfield tells me they have no intention of derating the advantages of a higher capacity handgun just to sell it in NYS....I understand their logicand good for them, but sucks for me. I would rather buy a handgun with a 5" barrel for IDPA competition if it is made in the USA... which makes S&W's M&P40 PRO the best choice. The SSP division of IDPA is ruled in NYS by the Glock 34 and S&W will need a 5" version to compete here in NY. If necessary, I will buy a foreign made gun like the Glock....nothing wrong with this handgun, other than not made in the USA.

Anyway, If anyone out there knows the answer to my question, please advise me. Thanks a bunch.

 

[rcpaul]

No offense I don't think an extra 3/4 inch of barrel will make that much difference compared to extra range time, extra dry firing drills, reload drills, ect. 10 rd m&p mags can be had relatively cheap off net

 

[rcpaul]

What I was trying to say is develop the skill sets to do good in idpa the gun is just a tool. You take someone that is really good and give him a different gun and a little practice he will be just as competitive

 

[growr]

Buy the gun from a NYS dealer and it will already be compliant....

Randy

 

[handgunner356]

S&W doesn't list the 5" Pros' with 10rd mags. You might have to order from out of state dealer willing to switch them out. If you really want the 5" you might also find someone willing to sell without the mags, but that just adds to the cost. Much easier to buy the compliant model, add the fiber optic and give up the extra 3/4".

 

[catcus-jack]

S&W also makes a 9mm Pro it was available before the 40 Pro.You can also shoot the M&P in ESP.If you have one in 45 you can shoot in in CDP.The 9mm is used in SSP the most.

 

[Canuck44]

To the OP re-read the post concerning the .40cal. My question to you is do you reload? If so the .40cal can be very soft shooting using 180 bullets at 130ish power factor. If you don't reload then factory ammo is more expensive then 9MM, far more snappier in recoil and won't serve you well in IDPA.

The M&P 40 Pro is sold with 10 rd mags wherever the 10 rd limit is in effect. All guns sold here in Canada are sold with 10 rd mags. Like another poster indicated buy the gun in NY and it will have the 10 rd mags.

Take Care

Bob
ps Go with the 9MM Pro for IDPA there is NO advantage to the .40 cal in IDPA SSP or ESP Divisions and right now it doesn't fit in CDP.

Take Care

Bob

 

[Bushido]

Yes, I reload. I found a dealer to order me the M&P40PRO 5" and he changed out the 15 rd mags for 10 rd mags to make it NYS compliant. Done Deal. Fiber optic front sight. Fits me like a glove. Love it.

As for my decision on 40S&W as my cal....I started with 40 and am sticking with it so I don't need to have multiple cals to retool my reloader, supplies, etc... I like the 40 and this is nothing against the 9mm. Just a personal choice...that it all. Planning to shoot SSP division.

Clearly this new M&P Pro will perform better for IDPA than will my CCW with 3" barrel....in anyone's hands. I'll leave it at that. Thanks for your comments guys. I sorted things out and am ready to go.

 

[atbarr]

If you might be considering shoot USPSA, the .40 Pro is still not on the 'Approved Production List'. I used to have several M&P's, and really enjoyed shooting my .40 Pro in Production (shooting minor). Then a friend of mine told me my gun was not approved! So, I sold all my M&P's and now I have Glocks.

 

[Spiffums]

No offense, but you need to learn the IDPA Divisions for different types of guns before trying to buy the "best gun." Your choices are all over the map, and .40 is the orphan caliber in IDPA unless you handload to minor.

SSP is scored minor power no matter what you shoot, and the 9mm Pro fits it exactly. Limit 10 rounds in mag.

ESP is also scored minor, but is for single-action guns, including USPSA Limited guns loaded with 10 rounds. Your 1911 9mm would go into ESP. If you got the 1911 in .45, it would go into CDP, with 8 round limit.

Confused? Read the IDPA rules here:
http://idpa.com/Documents/IDPARuleBook2005.pdf

A new IDPA rule book is being written as we speak.

By the way, the only difference is M&P "10 round guns" is the magazines.

Actually any SSP gun can be used in ESP and you can use a 45 in SSP or ESP with 10+1 in the gun. ESP is not just for single action guns. It's just factory ammo that isn't as nice as 9mm for easy shooting.

Since you reload you can make a nice puffy load. When they get enough guns in production you can use it in USPSA too. I looked at one for a backup to my glock if I get a different platform.

 

[Johnny380]

Buy the gun from a NYS dealer and it will already be compliant....

Randy

This might be a dumb question (I have a million of them), but doesn't he kind of have to purchase a handgun from a NYS dealer anyway? Or have it shipped to a FFL in NYS, at least. That dealer isn't going to let it go out the door without being NYS compliant.

Here in MA, I kind of feel like Barney Fife - I'm surprised the Attorney General doesn't make us carry one round in our shirt pocket for self defense...

 

[Gary H.]

as far as ESP being only single action pistols, that is wrong! I shoot my M & P 9 in IDPA and with the trigger done with Apex Tactical parts. This is the smoothest shooting gun I've ever found. You can really load some powder puff loads for that 40 when you get the right spring for it and go to town! In my opinion, these are the best ESP guns out there without spending $3000 or more!

 

[wantmoresmiths]

Bushido, I'm glad you were able to get the gun you wanted, despite the government's effort to protect you from yourself. I like your idea of using the .40 S&W for IDPA. The slightly larger diameter holes, are a big help in making up those shots you may have dropped into the hard cover. I always seem to miss them when shooting my 9mm, but don't have that problem with the .45. I know that I'm supposed to be able to call my shots, but it just doesn't always happen. I am using the Bayou Bullets 180 grain truncated cone bullet, and find that it cuts a nice clean almost full diameter hole, as if it were a SWC.

As other have noted, the .40 can be loaded down to mouse fart levels if desired. Which, when combined with the larger diameter hole, makes it a better choice in my opinion.

I was especially surprised to see some of the results of the 2012 IDPA national championship equipment survey. Of the approximately 265 shooters, 185 were shooting reloaded ammunition, yet only 15 people were shooting the .40. I could understand the reluctance to use the .40 if you were relegated to factory ammo, but with that large percentage of reloader's I would have expected to see more people using the .40. and loading it down. Maybe we're just ahead of our time. I'm considering a M&P for IDPA, and am leaning toward the .40 , with the intention of loading it down to a 125 to 130 power factor.

 

[Bushido]

Bushido, I'm glad you were able to get the gun you wanted, despite the government's effort to protect you from yourself. I like your idea of using the .40 S&W for IDPA. The slightly larger diameter holes, are a big help in making up those shots you may have dropped into the hard cover. I always seem to miss them when shooting my 9mm, but don't have that problem with the .45. I know that I'm supposed to be able to call my shots, but it just doesn't always happen. I am using the Bayou Bullets 180 grain truncated cone bullet, and find that it cuts a nice clean almost full diameter hole, as if it were a SWC.

As other have noted, the .40 can be loaded down to mouse fart levels if desired. Which, when combined with the larger diameter hole, makes it a better choice in my opinion.

I was especially surprised to see some of the results of the 2012 IDPA national championship equipment survey. Of the approximately 265 shooters, 185 were shooting reloaded ammunition, yet only 15 people were shooting the .40. I could understand the reluctance to use the .40 if you were relegated to factory ammo, but with that large percentage of reloader's I would have expected to see more people using the .40. and loading it down. Maybe we're just ahead of our time. I'm considering a M&P for IDPA, and am leaning toward the .40 , with the intention of loading it down to a 125 to 130 power factor.

I could not agree more. I'm trying to work up a nice puffy load for it now. I am currently using 5.5gr Longshot behind 165gr Delta Precision FMJ; but I feel there is something better out there. If anyone reloads for a 40 for IDPA, please provide your load details, type of powder, etc.... I am hearing that Clays and Bullseye will better serve me for IDPA. Any suggestions? Tx.

 

[Bushido]

This might be a dumb question (I have a million of them), but doesn't he kind of have to purchase a handgun from a NYS dealer anyway? Or have it shipped to a FFL in NYS, at least. That dealer isn't going to let it go out the door without being NYS compliant.

Here in MA, I kind of feel like Barney Fife - I'm surprised the Attorney General doesn't make us carry one round in our shirt pocket for self defense...

You are absolutely correct. Gun can't be sold in NYS unless it is through FFL who can not let it out the door without it being NYS compliant. We found someone in S&W who serves IDPA shooters and he swapped out the mags through my dealer. I had to find a dealer willing to jump through the hoops with me. S&W could make the process much simpler by having an order # for this M&P40Pro with 10rd mags. Simple concept, but perhaps they have a reason for not doing so. Some dealers will NOT jump through these kinds of hoops for us NY customers. They are simply too busy or lazy to deal with the mag swap issues. Anyway, I am glad I got this gun...fits me like a glove.

 

[Bushido]

If you might be considering shoot USPSA, the .40 Pro is still not on the 'Approved Production List'. I used to have several M&P's, and really enjoyed shooting my .40 Pro in Production (shooting minor). Then a friend of mine told me my gun was not approved! So, I sold all my M&P's and now I have Glocks.

I guess I won't be shooting USPSA right away....they need to get with the program. (Glocks are a great gun, but don't fit me right. The M&PPro fit me perfect and instantly loved it.) On the other hand, once wifey gets over this purchase, I may be working on the next one...haha.

 

[wantmoresmiths]

Bushido,
I currently load the Bayou Bullets 180 TC or the Berry's 180 gr RNFP over top of 3.7 grains of WW231 for a power factor of approximately 125 from a model 610 with a 5" barrel. I use this load for ICORE and steel. I did load these same bullets over a charge of 3.0 grains of Clay's to produce the same power factor. The Clay's didn't meter very well at such a small charge so I switched to the 231. I have seen posts from others who have experienced the same problem with light loads of Clay's. The 231 load may be worth a try in your M&P.