I feel let down by the NRA speech

[2hawk]

Ok, then....

I see some thought Wayne should have done it another way. Stronger, more conciliatory, yadda, yadda.... but what is the MSM talking about now? School security, not another AWB. That right there was important.

Funding: always a matter of priorities, if it's important we fund it, even if we pay the Chinese exorbitant interest. We put armed guards wherever there are large sum of money, are our kids not more important? The Israeli people seem to think the kids are worth carrying guns for.

I posted this over in the 2A section, so if it's too political the mods can edit. But.....

This is the picture in my mind's eye:

The sheep are bleating, no surprise. They don't like sheepdogs, because they have fangs and look too much like wolves. And the sheep resent having the sheepdogs herd them. But when the wolves do come, then sheep blame the sheepdogs if they are not there. (credit to Col. Grossman for the simile)

Wayne came out like a sheepdog today, when he said ".. The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun." The sheep were shocked! They have no fangs and can't comprehend using them. But I think this is the plain truth we need to push to the sheep- when you call for help, who do you want to be there RIGHT ****ING NOW? A good guy with a gun. A sheepdog.

This is a "common sense" solution, and it will drive the banners nuts trying to say it isn't so. They can only get so far lying, either to themselves or to what they consider "their" constituency. But, more Americans own guns than anytime in the last 20 years, and they know why they own them. I think we're in for a good fight, but I have confidence in the future, if we can all push in the same direction. If you still think the NRA is not at the point of our flying wedge, you haven''t been paying attention.

 

[DelFuego]

DelFuego,
Do you feel the other side has stuck to the talking points that you've pointed out? .

No, they haven't. I've seen Bloomberg holding a 15-22 (because it is an evil assault rifle?), some senator referring to high capacity clips, somebody saying that the NRA should pay for mental health care, and a myriad of other crazy stuff. They are ALL OVER THE MAP! This is why the NRA should have come out blazing with some kind of meaningful discussion to derail their absurd misguided arguments.

 

[DelFuego]

I am sorry that I upset a few of you because that was not my intention at all. It's just that for a whole week I waited for someone to tell the "other side" that they really lost it and that opportunity was squandered. Heck, many would say grossly mishandled. The NRA decided to preach to the choir instead of trying to convince the masses. I am not sure how we (the gun owners) are going to emerge from this. I can see almost all the politicians caving in because many of them go up for re-election in less than two years and don't want to be labeled as baby killers.

Above all else, I don't want people to lose sight of the fact that innocents lost their lives a week ago. The sad thing, that the "other side" doesn't realize, about the whole matter is that there really is no way to stop these things from happening because many in our society are just plain evil. You can't legislate evil out of society.

 

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

So, How or What do you naysayers propose?

If you don't like it, come up with Your Better Answer/Program.

The Wife and I think it's similar to what the Israelis have and theirs seem to work very well.

As the Wife says, teach Mama how to use an EBR and try to harm her kids
and you'll find out how vicious a Mama Bear can get.

Don't know about your wives, but I trust mine to watch my back when things fall apart.

 

[Big Fred]

The bottom line here is that the NRA is the best thing we have going for us so.....STAND UP AND SUPPORT THE NRA. Don't nit-pick it apart, don't get mad because they said one little thing you did not agree with. MAN UP. Join, rejoin, sign up your spouse and kids, grandkids, neighbor.

 

[David LaPell]

Let me ask you this, and from a perspective of seeing even little counties like mine reap the benefits of grants from Fed and state money, I can tell you the money IS out there. How much money did NASA spend sending the last rover to Mars? Probes to outer space what have you? I would like to see space exploration too, but there are too many things here at home that need funding. For the cost of that rover to Mars, how many cops could be put in a school? I would have liked to see Wayne Lapierre get into specifics, like how much money Obama's vacations could have put cops in schools. We see all the time on TV where you see studies and grants going to stupid things like monkey brain research, and many other things. They are called earmarks (bribes) for votes from lobbyists and constituents. I guarantee though if we drug tested food stamp recipients and made the bums on the government teat who are capable of working actually get out and work, well I bet we could fund those cops for a good six months that way. Trust me the money is out there. Think of all the money that is out there from drug seizures, where does that go? Usually a percentage of that goes to the agency. How much in a year does the DEA get do you think? Millions? Billions? The money is there, it can be done but the problem is no one will want to. I like Wayne Lapierre's idea. If he had mentioned arming all the teachers he would have looked like a loon, because while they do it in Israel, and it is a good idea, look at some of the teachers we have here. You have teachers unions protecting them. I know some of the teachers I had in school I would barely trust with chalk and a board let alone a firearm. I could imagine some of these twenty year wonders that remind me of Aunt B and Floyd the Barber trying to use a gun. Heck I have people I work with who at the annual qualification can't hit a cow in the teat with a tin cup, I can't even imagine some of them doing work in a school. It won't happen, but with the heat on the NRA it was I think the best speech they could give. It wouldn't matter if he got up and started speaking Latin backwards, it was going to get torn apart by the media anyways.

 

[PA Reb]

That is down to a reluctance to speak ill of the dead, even when they were clearly disturbed. This is why few will say out loud that the mother was partly to blame for not securing her firearms when she had doubts about her son's mental state. Nobody wants to go there except a very few like me. Wayne is of the generation that feels inhibited that way.

That's absurd! Unless you have inside access to the information the police found inside the house where she and her son lived, its not right to make statements that are, at best, pure conjecture. By all the accounts I've heard to date, this woman was a responsible person and very well liked within the community. The police have just finished investigating the scene at the house and haven't as of yet released it to whomever owns it now. Until the investigative findings are revealed, I believe everyone should respect the dead and hold judgement on her until all the facts are disclosed. Maybe, just maybe, she had all her guns locked in a safe and her son, being as intelligent as he supposedly was, found a way to access them without her knowledge.

As far as the statement released by the NRA goes, I believe it did nothing to help the matter at hand. I would also go one step further and say that I believe it probably sounded ridiculous to the millions of people on the far left and added fuel to their fire. I'd bet good money that the AR market (and accessories) as we know it today will soon be a thing of the past because people want "something done" but the people that are about to "do something" have no idea what truly needs to be done. It is my belief that training and arming chosen individuals working in schools coupled with "layered" and secure school entrances, no entry what-so-ever into the school proper after lockdown might keep unwanteds out or at least deny those wishing to do harm the element of surprise.

As a side note, on our way to Maine this past May we stopped at a Subway restaurant in Sandy Hook, Ct. for no reason other than we were hungry and it looked like a nice place to stop for an hour or so. As it turns out, CNN was broadcasting all last week from a spot behind this Subway along a creek that winds through town. The elementary school where all this took place is roughly, give or take, just a few blocks from that Subway. If a nutcase shooter can unleash their fury in a beautiful and quiet town such as this, then it can definitely happen in Anytown, USA. While we were there, I saw a group of young children with adults on some type of outting. I remarked to my wife the other day that I'm haunted by the thought that some of those youngsters may not be with us any longer. True innocents that became victims of a twisted individual who was able to slip through the lose nettings of our society and act on his demonic thoughts. I feel as though American society as a whole shares some of this guilt for allowing it to get this far.

 

[george minze]

Join the NRA.
Maybe they can hire a better speech writer with your dues.

Perfect or not, the NRA has protected YOUR gun rights better than any other single entity.
Why aren't we all members?

Are you on target!!! I think it is time for Wayne to retire. First of all he was great when the normal things the NRA entered into. Youth markmanship, NRA match shooting, hunter safety. and education. This CCW stuff I think was hard for Wayne to swallow, and I do understand. 20 years ago it was a fringe issue at best....The NRA (Wayne) had little to say about it. I, (and just my opinion) think Wayne was not a proponent of concealed carry. or didn't put much effort in advancing carry proposals. He came from a different time..I do understand...Concealed Carry has brought up many different issues...I watched the press release and was immediatly reminded of the Deer In the Headlights....Come on Wayne you have made one great living over many years and have done a good job. Let face it if carrying a weapon is part of the NRA programe maybe it is time to look for another spoksperson. (Probably needs someone that believes in the premise), and has progressed up trough the changes in the law of CCW.....What ever you do stay off of TV untill you are really ready to make a point.....That appearence was just plain bad......Could I have done better (heck no) but I ,like you come from a time long past....As law enforcement has (some say) progressed I guess I have not and I must accept it. Wayne this is a new area and lets face it maybe it is time to let those who are coming up in the NRA and have more invested in the new ideas about gun ownership, carry, and the problems associated with it. I remember when you had to finally change your picture in the Rifleman, it happens to all of us......Could be you are past your prime for this fight......Yep it is a cruel world, but what ever you do stay off of TV.......... Thanks for your loyal sevice to shooters over the years......

 

[Lenny_D]

The NRA provided a solution that could be deployed in a very short time. Granted, probably on a volunteer basis at first while the money thing is worked out. I don't know what some of you expected. Perhaps the heavens opening up and celestial angels blowing horns.I know I would be willing to pay a little more for my school taxes to employ one more employee. It sounds as though some of you expected the NRA to endorse more gun laws and restrictions. I've heard nothing from the other side that would have stopped this madman period. I believe no laws could have stopped this carnage. If one of you have any idea please bring it into this conversation. The money keeps on coming up but the school districts can bring it up for an increase vote and I doubt the constituents would vote it down. Will it stop a madman 100% of the time absolutely not. If I were somewhere that there was an active shooter I sure would like a chance even if its a small one.

 

[badam0112]

We already have armed uniformed sheriff deputies in all of our middle and high schools in the county I live in. They call them school resource officers. I'd happily pay more in property taxes if it allowed the sheriff to add additional staff to protect the elementary schools.

 

[PA Reb]

The NRA provided a solution that could be deployed in a very short time. Granted, probably on a volunteer basis at first while the money thing is worked out. I don't know what some of you expected. Perhaps the heavens opening up and celestial angels blowing horns.I know I would be willing to pay a little more for my school taxes to employ one more employee. It sounds as though some of you expected the NRA to endorse more gun laws and restrictions. I've heard nothing from the other side that would have stopped this madman period. I believe no laws could have stopped this carnage. If one of you have any idea please bring it into this conversation. The money keeps on coming up but the school districts can bring it up for an increase vote and I doubt the constituents would vote it down. Will it stop a madman 100% of the time absolutely not. If I were somewhere that there was an active shooter I sure would like a chance even if its a small one.

BINGO!​

You're right there sir!​

I believe "DelFuego" is correct (and I do not know him or her in any way). Why does everyone here get their panties in a wad when someone speaks their mind and doesn't agree with companies or organizations like S&W and the NRA? I have alot of S&Ws' and I belong to the NRA but that doesn't mean I have to bow down to either and act like their word is gospel! I truly believe the NRA and gun owners have now come up against insurmountable odds and neither has a good idea right now about how to fight the battle from this day forward. I also agree that the NRA had their chance to talk to Americans on both sides the other day but failed to do so by seemingly to only speak to its base. That however, doesn't mean I've given up on them just like I didn't give up on S&W when they caved in and put locks on their revolvers. Disagreement is not dislike but rather the American way to voice opinion. If, God forbid, your child had been inside that school or one of the other venues used to stage similar events over the last decade or so, you would more than likely disagree big time with the NRA stance issued yesterday. That's not to say that their stance isn't a good starting point however. For anyone here that might want to challenge my feelings towards someone for or an event that took their childs young life away by saying I have no idea how those parents feel and have no right to speak out, all I can say is think it over before you post it.

 

[NFrameFred]

"As for having to register every gun that I have to purchase, so be it." DelFuego

Tells me everything I need to know about trying to reason with such a poster.

 

[BigBill]

For what? So that more public employees can be hired. Teachers...administrators....security...counselors...cafeteria workers....janitors....you name it...

When will people realize that the public school system has little to do with education and everything to do with providing government employees with jobs.

May I also remind everyone that there was a sheriff's deputy at Columbine on that tragic day?

Deputy at Columbine

As tragic as school shootings are, kids are much more likely to drown, get poisoned, or killed in a car!

Andrew

They all stood outside rather than going in during the shootings. This is where an experienced combat vet knows how to enter the rooms/hallways and take out the shooter/badguy under pressure. I would only trust a combat vet in this position.

 

[ladder13]

If, God forbid, your child had been inside that school or one of the other venues used to stage similar events over the last decade or so, you would more than likely disagree big time with the NRA stance issued yesterday.[/FONT]



NOPE!

 

[Sebago Son]

If, God forbid, your child had been inside that school or one of the other venues used to stage similar events over the last decade or so, you would more than likely disagree big time with the NRA stance issued yesterday.[/FONT]



NOPE!

+1 .......

 

[NFrameFred]

If, God forbid, your child had been inside that school or one of the other venues used to stage similar events over the last decade or so, you would more than likely disagree big time with the NRA stance issued yesterday.

Not so - I have mentally put myself in that place and can honestly say I believe that my grief, anger, rage, and frustration would be directed somewhere else since I strive to make my decisions based on rational fact instead of emotion.

 

[Stophel]

There is no "solution" to events like this (assuming it actually happened as we are told in the official story...). People need to understand that. Unfortunately, they won't.

Gun control is not an issue where you can convince one side or the other of anything. There is nothing to debate. Either you believe in the RIGHT to bear arms, or you don't. It is a basic philosophical position, you hold to one or the other. The government, and society as a whole, have been quite successful in indoctrinating the public into believing that "rights" are granted by government, which is so trustworthy and there to help you and knows what is best for you. Rugged individualism (of the real, old fashioned variety) has been almost thoroughly purged from the landscape. People who believe in Liberty rather than license are dying out. We are being inundated with people from other lands, religions, and cultures which are utterly incompatible with American Liberty. Our culture and morality have been systematically corrupted. Simply put, we have allowed ourselves to be overwhelmed.

The puppetmasters have been pushing gun control for decades, and they will continue to push, and push, and push, until there are more of "them" (thanks to this indoctrination and massive multicultural immigration) than there are of "us". Well, there aren't many of "us" left, and there are way more of "them" now.

 

[Delos]

Come on! How on earth can we fund cops in every school in the United States? I can't believe that I waited a week for this.

Sent from my IdeaTabA2109A using Tapatalk 2

How do we fund armed guards at schools?

Simple.
We stop paying for the United Nations.
We stop foreign Aid.
We stop rescuing failing dictatorships.
We stop letting our factories move to places like China.

Once a factory moves to China it pays taxes in china to china. It buys the power to run the factory from china. It pays wages to Chinese workers who then pay sales tax over there.

The save money list is endless.

 

[2hawk]

Here's one to make you think: Bill Clinton had the same idea as the NRA for school security. That will make liberal heads explode!

Flashback: Clinton Requests $60 Million to Put Cops in Schools

 

[PA Reb]

Not so - I have mentally put myself in that place and can honestly say I believe that my grief, anger, rage, and frustration would be directed somewhere else since I strive to make my decisions based on rational fact instead of emotion.

^ B O L O N E Y ^​

To "ladder13" and "Sebago Son" - Although the both of you are entitled to your opinions and seem to enjoy trading "likes", all I can do at this point is sit back and laugh because, well, just because! If I typed the response I really want to I'd more than likely get banned from the forum.