627 city hunter
Member
I am curious, if any of you posters have opinions based upon
experiences with solar power.
experiences with solar power.
Solar Power Opinons?
- Thread starter 627 city hunter
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It's good for small application such as off grid houses/cabins, but fails on a larger scale due to base load power requirements. Essentially, you have to have a base load power plant of coal, nat gas, or nuke to maintain the power supply when the skies go dark, as there are no batteries or capacitors large enough to hold that much electricity. In the real, meaning un subsidized world, it makes more sense to build out the coal, nat gas or nuke power plant to meet the entire need, as the cost per KwH is much smaller.
The panels are also very expensive, as are the inverters needed to use AC appliances. After consideration and seeing some friends spend lotsa dough on panels, I'm opting for a diesel/electric system for my cabin. Diesel genny with inverter that charges a battery bank that will carry the needed load when I turn off the generator. I can add panels later if they come down in price, but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon. They have come down in price over the last few years, but are still very expensive IMO. These guys have the best pricing that I've seen:
Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar
The panels are also very expensive, as are the inverters needed to use AC appliances. After consideration and seeing some friends spend lotsa dough on panels, I'm opting for a diesel/electric system for my cabin. Diesel genny with inverter that charges a battery bank that will carry the needed load when I turn off the generator. I can add panels later if they come down in price, but I don't expect that to happen anytime soon. They have come down in price over the last few years, but are still very expensive IMO. These guys have the best pricing that I've seen:
Solar Panels from Wholesale Solar
truckemup97
Member
Kinda depends on what you want to do with it. If you are connected to the grid, you can generate during the day, sell it to the electric company, then buy it back at night. Off grid, you need batteries. Lots and lots of batteries. You can get around some of the inverter load by using 12V lighting. LEDs are particularly efficient and usually available in 12V. Other 12V appliances are available from RV dealers, but can get a little expensive. And you will be paying more for any appliance you want to use because you will be trying to get the most energy efficient appliance possible (or buy more panels and batteries).
Some folks have solar with a battery bank and a secondary charging option, like a small diesel engine turning an alternator. Just another option in case of too many dark days.
Some folks have solar with a battery bank and a secondary charging option, like a small diesel engine turning an alternator. Just another option in case of too many dark days.
I use solar panels mounted on trackers to supply power for submersible pumps in wells providing water in pipelines up to 5 miles long for cattle. Initial cost was high, but cost free now for many years.
There are no batteries, and they only run in the daylight and I have large supply tanks for the cattle to drink from.
I have had no problems of any kind in over 8 years of operation. The trackers follow the sun, thus reducing the number of panels needed by 40%.
It would take many years to be cost effective at my house in town, but on the ranch they can't be beat.
There are no batteries, and they only run in the daylight and I have large supply tanks for the cattle to drink from.
I have had no problems of any kind in over 8 years of operation. The trackers follow the sun, thus reducing the number of panels needed by 40%.
It would take many years to be cost effective at my house in town, but on the ranch they can't be beat.
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USAF385
US Veteran
It depends on your location and panel setup. I have a buddy from the service who lives in AZ and went fully solar when he built his house. With his battery setup he's totally independent. His home is just over 2,000 sq ft. Of course he's in AZ and has a high amount of peak solar hours.
sipowicz
Member
I once layed out in the sun, figuring the solar power would recharge me...but it only made me tired and red.
I used a solar-powered fence charger for the electric fences around my pastures for awhile. Never again. When it was sunny, it was okay. Just okay. During the winter months, you could touch the fence with your tongue and nothing would happen. The animals knew it, too, and took advantage of the fact.
After fixing several acres of fence one spring, I finally gave up and said, "By golly, I've paid my dues and lived long enough to deserve a huge carbon footprint! I mean, if Al Gore can justify wasting all that energy, why can't I?" So...I went out and bought the plug-in Commando 550-size fence charger that will discourage grizzly bears.
Haven't had a problem since. Of course, that's just my experience. Your mileage may differ.
After fixing several acres of fence one spring, I finally gave up and said, "By golly, I've paid my dues and lived long enough to deserve a huge carbon footprint! I mean, if Al Gore can justify wasting all that energy, why can't I?" So...I went out and bought the plug-in Commando 550-size fence charger that will discourage grizzly bears.
Haven't had a problem since. Of course, that's just my experience. Your mileage may differ.
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HOUSTON RICK
Member
I have not licked any electric fences, but I do know that the technology is changing so quickly and becoming rapidly more cost effective that now is a bad time to buy into large solar investments.
kozmic
Member
A local guy, pretty interesting fellow, had a solid business plan and a great idea to build portable solar-powered generator plants to provide remote electricity to construction jobsites, etc. He build working prototype. Just trailer it to the site, point it at the sun and presto...instant juice.
I thought the idea was great and well conceived. He even had a decent marketing scheme together. The guy did his homework. I figured he'd be on the cover of Popular Science or something but, no. I think he finally gave up because of lack of financal backing and general interest. He tried to grab some start-up cash from Uncle Sam but seems he "improperly voted" in the previous national election and gave up on that route as well.
I think solar will become a viable option for more and more applications in the not too distant future but not the end-all, be-all (read: taxpayer money pit) that the current administration seems to think it is. If it does I believe it will be done (and should be done) in the private sector with mostly private capital.
I thought the idea was great and well conceived. He even had a decent marketing scheme together. The guy did his homework. I figured he'd be on the cover of Popular Science or something but, no. I think he finally gave up because of lack of financal backing and general interest. He tried to grab some start-up cash from Uncle Sam but seems he "improperly voted" in the previous national election and gave up on that route as well.
I think solar will become a viable option for more and more applications in the not too distant future but not the end-all, be-all (read: taxpayer money pit) that the current administration seems to think it is. If it does I believe it will be done (and should be done) in the private sector with mostly private capital.
jaykellogg
Absent Comrade
I looked into passive solar for domestic hot water years ago. It wouldn't have paid for me unless the next buyers paid a premium only because we lived there only 4 years. I did speak to someone who had the exact same system and she spoke very highly of it.
As an investment, I would say it is not time yet.
As an investment, I would say it is not time yet.
Go for it, great systems whether grid intertied PV, battery BU PV, solar hot air or solar hot water.
PV has a payback period of about 20 years, solar hot air about 3 and solar hot water about 5.
Research incentives and tax credits, they can make the difference. Also many states help businesses get more solar installed so check that out.
For great info read Home Power Magazine
PV has a payback period of about 20 years, solar hot air about 3 and solar hot water about 5.
Research incentives and tax credits, they can make the difference. Also many states help businesses get more solar installed so check that out.
For great info read Home Power Magazine
OP
627 city hunter
Member
I work for a solar company as head of sales department also performing project management for the construction company partnership.
I will state that solar in LA and states with tax credits incentives along with the federal tax credit incentives are saving people money by purchasing and financing versus some companies leasing plans.
I wanted to get an idea of the forums opinions.
I think it is the best passive energy source in sunny climates.
Solar also happens to be very lucrative financially at the moment.
I will state that solar in LA and states with tax credits incentives along with the federal tax credit incentives are saving people money by purchasing and financing versus some companies leasing plans.
I wanted to get an idea of the forums opinions.
I think it is the best passive energy source in sunny climates.
Solar also happens to be very lucrative financially at the moment.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Okay, here is my UNEDUCATED opinion. When you do someone a favor, you are "twisting" someone else. "I will state that solar in LA and states with tax credits incentives along with the federal tax credit incentives are saving people money by purchasing and financing versus some companies leasing plans." Other people are paying to selected areas to "prove" the green ideas work. THEY DONT WORK! With windmills when the wind dont blow, no power. With solar panels they dont work at night and on cloudy days. With ethinal corn squeezings or whatever, the land now doesnt produce needed editable crops causeing all vegtables and grains to go up in cost.
Batterys cost a fortune and go bad. Sure, we can try to prove a point
by throwing fortunes at a project that oil can do at a fraction of the cost.
Oil has been trapped in the ground for eons. There was zero use for it until we arrived at the mechanical age 180 years ago. Strange isnt it how God saw fit to have it stored up for the day when we finaly got smart enough to need and use it.
They tell me there is still at least several hundred years left of it that they know of right here without even haveing to go overseas to buy it.
I belive we need to go all atomic energy for all our electric grid. We need to go big time with shale oil now.
There is a huge area here that applys even more than the weak views I gave that I wont go into as I dont want to get thrown off this site.
Batterys cost a fortune and go bad. Sure, we can try to prove a point
by throwing fortunes at a project that oil can do at a fraction of the cost.
Oil has been trapped in the ground for eons. There was zero use for it until we arrived at the mechanical age 180 years ago. Strange isnt it how God saw fit to have it stored up for the day when we finaly got smart enough to need and use it.
They tell me there is still at least several hundred years left of it that they know of right here without even haveing to go overseas to buy it.
I belive we need to go all atomic energy for all our electric grid. We need to go big time with shale oil now.
There is a huge area here that applys even more than the weak views I gave that I wont go into as I dont want to get thrown off this site.
Good information so far. The value of a pure solar system very much depends on your intended use. My honey and I lived off a hybrid electric power system (panels, inverter, deep cycle battery system and a generator for sporatic higher loads) for about 6 months and it did everything we needed. We were in Arizona at the time. The wet side of Washington State probably isn't the best place for a pure solar system, but a hybrid including a wind turbine along with the other elements (batteries, etc.) would probably work out. Total cash outlay to rig my house would be in the 30K range, so it would take me about 25 years for it to pay itself off. Of course, there is always the possiblility of the grid going down or the energy prices (necessarily) skyrocketing, so that payoff could change.
Panels should last at peak power for around 20 years, then efficiency starts falling off. Technology is improving, and cost is coming down.
Panels should last at peak power for around 20 years, then efficiency starts falling off. Technology is improving, and cost is coming down.
feralmerril
Absent Comrade
Lets see. That same $30,000 at a very modest return of 5% average for 25 years would be worth $101,590.63. Now if we average a more likely 8%, it would be worth $205,452.41. Go`s up from there.
OP
627 city hunter
Member
Basically the system I work with saves between $70-90 per month of an average electric bill which is $120.
Over 25 years they save $37,000 in electric bills because energy is going up nearly 2% annually.
The technology is here now to decrease electricity costs as well as consume less energy.
The tax incentive programs are making it very affordable in some states and solar business is booming here.
Not all solar systems are designed to be battery back up.
Prices are dropping rapidly.
I am not discussing other forms of energy just solar.
Solar is passive and constantly producing some energy even when cloudy because UV is consistently being radiated from the sun.
Over 25 years they save $37,000 in electric bills because energy is going up nearly 2% annually.
The technology is here now to decrease electricity costs as well as consume less energy.
The tax incentive programs are making it very affordable in some states and solar business is booming here.
Not all solar systems are designed to be battery back up.
Prices are dropping rapidly.
I am not discussing other forms of energy just solar.
Solar is passive and constantly producing some energy even when cloudy because UV is consistently being radiated from the sun.
Fort Bliss is building a lot of family housing to accomodate the 1st Armored Division which arrived a short while ago. When I go on post I see many of the housing units, mostly duplexes, with solar hot water heaters on the roof. Some other system is needed to supplement the solar heating, but I'm sure it saves a lot of money, once installation costs are amortized. We sure got plenty of sun all year long, and plenty of wind, too.
Edited to add: In the paper today there was an article on a new solar power initiative at Ft Bliss. They will have a solar array working by 2014 to supply 20 megwatts of power to the post. This is about 12% of their daily consumption.
Edited to add: In the paper today there was an article on a new solar power initiative at Ft Bliss. They will have a solar array working by 2014 to supply 20 megwatts of power to the post. This is about 12% of their daily consumption.
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LoboGunLeather
US Veteran
I use a portable solar power system for emergency back-up at home and also while camping. 12-V 120-AH deep cycle battery, 1000-W 12VDC-120VAC power inverter, 30-W solar panel. This will run a few lights, laptop computer, small TV, radio, mini-fridge, and other small stuff all night if needed, then can fully recharge with 3 to 6 hours of sunshine.
Works very well for tent camping or a small camp trailer set up. Will also provide emergency lighting and run the refrigerator at home for 10 minutes every hour overnight.
Once used it to run a 32" TV for several hours without excessive discharge of the battery, kept the Super Bowl on at my club during a power outage. Everybody there was buying my beers in appreciation, so I ended up with enough bar credit to just about pay for my little solar set-up.
Everything mounts on a small dolly, easily moved around. With the 12-V deep cycle battery it's also easy to jump-start a vehicle if necessary, and a power-port connection cord allows me to recharge the battery while running the truck in about 30 to 40 minutes if needed.
Total cost was under $300, so very practical for limited requirements.
While researching the concept and shopping for components I noticed that every company involved in the solar power industry uses the tax credit scheme as part of their sales pitches. That tells me that solar power is not economically viable on its own merits for general use.
Works very well for tent camping or a small camp trailer set up. Will also provide emergency lighting and run the refrigerator at home for 10 minutes every hour overnight.
Once used it to run a 32" TV for several hours without excessive discharge of the battery, kept the Super Bowl on at my club during a power outage. Everybody there was buying my beers in appreciation, so I ended up with enough bar credit to just about pay for my little solar set-up.
Everything mounts on a small dolly, easily moved around. With the 12-V deep cycle battery it's also easy to jump-start a vehicle if necessary, and a power-port connection cord allows me to recharge the battery while running the truck in about 30 to 40 minutes if needed.
Total cost was under $300, so very practical for limited requirements.
While researching the concept and shopping for components I noticed that every company involved in the solar power industry uses the tax credit scheme as part of their sales pitches. That tells me that solar power is not economically viable on its own merits for general use.
If solar got the same tax benefits that gas and oil do there would be no need to those incentives. The nuclear energy did a very well researched peer reviewed study on the government incentives and tax breaks for various forms of energy. Nuclear for example is subsidized on the insurance side and also in building plants and disposal of waste. Still nat. gas and oil had the highest subsidies of anything. I say we eliminate all of those subsidies and then see where it all shakes out. Personally we'll be installing solar as fast as we can afford it as it's always a good long term investment IMO.
I am not in the solar industry at all, just been a user of solar systems for many years.
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A lot of determining if solar power is worth it for YOU is your climate and where geographically you are located. In a place that gets a lot of rain, snow, and is over-cast a lot - it makes little sense. In San Diego I would think it's GREAT!
