HS-6 in 38 Special?

[Erich]

Dad's up at his place 80 miles N. of the Soo right now, Last of the Mohicans - you've got a pretty country up there.

I have only done a couple of HS-6 .38 Special (+P) loads, but I found that the more pressure-y ones worked better. In my limited experience, I've found that the 158-grainers worked better for me with this powder/cartridge than the lighter bullets. I was closer to ArchangelCD's load than yours (hint, hint), and got what I felt to be good results.

Using more powder than present data suggests I should, hardcast 158-grainer RNLs from CO Cast Bullet Company, CCI 550 mag primer, and a medium roll crimp, I got the following:

4" GP-100: M 966.5/ES 83.28/SD 32.77
3" S&W 36-1: M 887.0/ES 29.15/SD 11.40
2 1/8" DS: M 841.4/ES 24.07/ SD 8.88

You know, I was pretty happy with this. It was dirty (both the DS and the GP actually sort of clogged up with schmutz and had slow mechanisms during firing this loading) but it worked well and felt like the real deal.

Group pix offhand at 10 yards:

The GP clearly liked it - I shot quite a lot of it offhand DA and had no problem keeping the groups around 1".

 

[Last of the Mohicans]

Erich, that's useful information indeed. And, I'm liking the looks of your results. Thanks for the advice.

And yes, this part of the country is very interesting. If your dad is 80 miles north of the Soo, he is about 4 hours drive west-northwest from my location (Sudbury). We don't have too much snow so far this winter, so he's probably able to get out and enjoy himself more!

 

[WILDPIG]

I have had the best success with HS-6 and 125gr. JHPs and standard primers (never tried magnum primers with it) for 1,000ish fps in a model 15.

WILDPIG

 

[Erich]

His neighbor's webcam:

Welcome to Montreal River Harbour Canada

Sudbury! I see your Wolves facing off against the ' Hounds sometimes in the online version of the Sault Star. Dad and his wife drive over there from time to time, but I can't recall why. Might be something to do with the college.

Enjoy your reloading season!

 

[Skip Sackett]

Just a word of caution.

Hodgdon lists a charge of 7.0gr with pressures of only 15,500 CUP in .357 Magnum brass using a Magnum primer. Granted the Magnum case is 1/8" longer but it's hard to believe you can increase the charge weight that much and have such low pressure from only 1/8" more capacity. This is only my opinion, I'm not telling anyone to do something they feel is unsafe. I'm only thinking out loud and extrapolating data.
.

The one thing I notice about the 357Mag data and the XTP bullet is how fast pressures rise with such a little increase in powder.

Tony, we have talked about this before only on a different load.(I don't remember now which one!) There is very little "wiggle room" in some of the data for HS-6. What I have seen before, both in published data and in real life tests, it that some powders (haven't tried this with HS-6 myself though) small changes means big differences in pressure. Case in point: Clays.

Maybe I'm "over thinking" this but it would seem that Hodgdon seems to think that is true about HS-6.

I know that I have had better results with SR4756 when building 38spl +P loads.

Just me though and I wouldn't be afraid to use any of the loads posted by ArchAngle.

FWIW

 

[WILDPIG]

The cannelure on 158gr. XTPs sits higher on the bullet than most others that I have used, thus, the base sits deeper in the case. My favorite .357 mag loads (used for 20 years, warm but not hot) got too hot when I switched to XTPs. The model 28 would not handle them (primer setting back and cratering to the point of dragging). Had to shoot them in the Blackhawk. Now I always reduce powder charges more than usual (in any caliber) when switching to XTPs, then work up a new load.

WILDPIG

 

[ArchAngelCD]

The one thing I notice about the 357Mag data and the XTP bullet is how fast pressures rise with such a little increase in powder.

Tony, we have talked about this before only on a different load.(I don't remember now which one!) There is very little "wiggle room" in some of the data for HS-6. What I have seen before, both in published data and in real life tests, it that some powders (haven't tried this with HS-6 myself though) small changes means big differences in pressure. Case in point: Clays.

Maybe I'm "over thinking" this but it would seem that Hodgdon seems to think that is true about HS-6.

I know that I have had better results with SR4756 when building 38spl +P loads.

Just me though and I wouldn't be afraid to use any of the loads posted by ArchAngle.

FWIW

Skip, I agree some powders will spike pressures even with small changes in charge weights. Those powder though seem to be the faster powders like Clays and Bullseye and a few others. HS-6 is a hard to ignite powder that sits right in the middle of the pistol powder range and as far as I can tell doesn't spike pressures like Clays easily can. Of course I would have to defer to the powder company because they do all the pressure testing whereas I can't.

 

[Ralph G. Briscoe]

I have experimented with HS-6 in .38 with cast bullets of 105 and 125 grns., the Speer 158 gr LSWC and the 125gr. Hornady XTP with powder charges ranging from 4 grains to 7.5 (125 Xtp only). I settled on 6 grains with the 158gr Speer as a pretty nice moderate practice load for my older snubbies.
Any less powder was prohibitively dirty. 7.5 under the 125 XTP (listed max is 7.8) shoots very well in my Trooper III. I also like 10 grns with the 125 XTP for a .357 load.

 

[Erich]

Was out at the range today with the max loading for 158-gr LSWCs in .38 +Ps, shooting them (after a lot of .357) from my Chiappa Rhino. The HS-6 loads just kept going into one hole at ten yards. Even after I reloaded.

Big shout-out to ArchangelCD for turning me on to this powder: I'll be using this load again!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I'm glad you found a load using HS-6 your new revolver likes Erich.

 

[Erich]

Me too, paisano! Thanks!

 

[jbeardduck]

HS-6 in .38

I use HS-6 in 9mm and am well pleased with it in a number of loads. I am trying to get my wife to shoot her snub .38 more often, so I thought I'd load some Hornady Cowboy 140 gr. lead with a light load. Used 5.5 gr. HS-6 and it's a great light load. I haven't shot for accuracy, but I think 5.5 gr. to 6.0 gr. will do the trick. I will move up to 6.0 gr. and see how that goes.

 

[Nevada Ed]

As mentioned HS-6 is a good powder for 38 +p loads but I have to note..........

SR4756 was mentioned and in my snub nose a near maximum load of 5.8grs only gave 729fps with a 158Lwwchp bullet. This powder works much better in my 6" guns.

 

[Risasi]

Since this thread has been resurrected I don't feel too bad posting here. I actually had to join this forum just to talk to you fellows that seem to be using HS-6 a lot. Even though I don't own a single S&W (I feel a little sheepish about joining)

I have plenty of .38spl brass, and a fair amount of CCI 550's, and Hornady is a stone throw away from where I live, so there is a plethora of the 158gr LSWC and LSWCHP bullets available. I also have a few pounds of HS-6. So I figured, "meh, why not?"

I'm trying to work up a load close to "the FBI load". I'm not after barn burners, but a well rounded load that I can use for practice, but would still be sufficient against wild dogs, two-legged intruders, etc. So somewhere in the 850-950fps range seems reasonable. I have a 3" SP101 and 4" GP100. I will always stick to at least a 3" barrel.
---

I started at 5.9gr of HS-6 under the LSWC and worked up, starting with the SP101 first. I had a really hot load around 6.7gr and I'm not sure why. Extremely stout recoil, flattened and cratered primer, it was also pretty obvious that the case was under extreme pressure as it was slow to release from the cylinder wall as it slammed backward scrape marks and wall thinning at the bottom of the case. I also noticed I was losing accuracy past about 6.4-6.5gr. I ended up firing the last round of that cylinder without issue. And then ended up firing two more cylinders full in 6.8 and 7.0. No more hot loads, but continued poor accuracy.

This was over the winter at an indoor range, so I couldn't really use my chronograph. I'm planning on going fishing over memorial day weekend with my wife and kids, and some other friends. Nowadays I stick to using a Huntington Compac handpress and carry all my gear in a bag. I'll also take my chrony with me. So my questions;

- If I'm getting anywhere over 850fps on 6.3gr or less of powder, do you think it's worth going higher?
- Do you guys trim your cases, if so what length? I plan to make sure I have 100 cases trimmed before I go.
- Roll crimp, I assume. How much? Light, heavy? I'm supposing heavy because I want good pressure for HS-6, but I would like to confirm.

Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks.

 

[Rollbar]

HS-6 will get you some serious +P velocities. It just won't happen with current data. HS-6 HAS GOT TO HAVE A MAGNUM PRIMER. Otherwise you are going to have abysmal results. Unburnt powder and wide ES and SD.

Does this mean you are supposed to use a mag primer w/9mm ?

I have some HS-6 and it reads on the front label for 9mm

Thanks,
Jim

 

[ArchAngelCD]

- If I'm getting anywhere over 850fps on 6.3gr or less of powder, do you think it's worth going higher?
- Do you guys trim your cases, if so what length? I plan to make sure I have 100 cases trimmed before I go.
- Roll crimp, I assume. How much? Light, heavy? I'm supposing heavy because I want good pressure for HS-6, but I would like to confirm.

Anything else I should be aware of?

Thanks.

-If you're getting the velocity you're looking for and the accuracy is good I see no reason to add more powder.

-I have never trimmed a straight walled handgun case and don't ever intend to.

-I use a medium to a little heavier roll crimp when loading with HS-6. I treat the loads more like a magnum load than a Special load.

-Anything else, yes, please use magnum primers when loading with HS-6, they just work better. (but I see you already mentioned you will be using CCI-550 primers, good) Don't forget the range report when you shoot them over the Chrono...

 

[Risasi]

- we shall see if I get the speed I'm after.

- I'm trimming more for consistency in getting a good consistent crimp.

- And yeah, only magnum primers for HS-6. Standard primers for 2400.

So I'm guessing Rollbar will get better consistentcy with mag primers, no?

P.S. I will post a follow up on chrony results, accuracy, etc. Thanks for the prompt reply.

 

[Risasi]

I'm starting from scratch here. I'm starting at 5.8gr and will probably work up in .1 gr increments. My goal is 900fps out of my 3" SP101.

I have a feeling I'm not seating them deep enough. The attached pic is seated at 1.584", trim length is 1.145".

ArchAngelCD,

Do you have a specific seating depth you like to use? And what do you think of the crimp, go a little heavier?

 

[rwsmith]

- Do you guys trim your cases, if so what length? I plan to make sure I have 100 cases trimmed before I go.

Thanks.

I trim new brass the first time I use it to even out inconsistencies in different makes of brass. The Lee trimmers I use will only trim to the proper length for the four calibers I load.

 

[Nevada Ed]

Just thought I would toss this info in about HS-6;

Lyman has its 6.7gr (4") load with a 160gr (#2 Alloy) bullet at 901 fps and a 16,200 cup.

18,500 cup is a +P pressure in the 38 spl.

The "Atomic" Speer manual with a K frame list the maximum at 8.0 grs with a mag primer.

Seems that HS-6 would work as a +P load in a J frame snub nose but it is one powder I have yet to try.
I have used w540 but did not have a snub nose at that time.........bummer.