Midrange Load with HS-6

[ColColt]

I was looking for a medium power load for the 357 using HS-6 powder and the Hodgdon website shows 6.0-7.0 gr(max) at 15,500 CUP. I don't know what that translates to in PSI but seems low for a 357 round. Speer's #14 manual indicated 6.7 gr of HS-6 for the 38+P load and I would think the 357 could take .5 grain more than their max at least...maybe 7.2 gr.This is with the 158 gr LSWC and I'm not sure what Hodgdon is basing their number on. Perhaps the use of a softer(10-12 BHN) bullet.

If you were to use a hard bullet(BHN 18) I see no reason why you couldn't use 7.2 gr at least. The old Speer #9 shows 8.0 as max with this type bullet. Bottom line, I'm looking for a velocity of around 850-1000 fps from a 3 inch barrel while most data will indicated their figures for velocity from either a 6 or 8 3/4 inch barrel. I know I'd loose around 100 fps from a 4 inch to 3 inch barrel and even more if data were given from an 8 3/4" barrel. Hodgdon's Data online doesn't give the firearm used nor the barrel length. Does the 7.2 gr of HS-6 sound reasonable in light of the above?

 

[Skip Sackett]

Personally, I don't think that HS-6 is the powder for this kind of load. It requires a magnum primer to get reliable ignition and performs poorly at reduced pressure. That being said, get it up into +P 38spl pressures or upper end 357Mag pressures, and you will have a winner on your hands!

As for the Hodgdon website and barrel lengths, yes, it tells you, you just have to dig to get it. It will even tell you what primers were used.

Over on the right side of the "banner", there are 3 push buttons. The one in the middle is a print button. Select the caliber and other criteria you want, push that button and a .PDF file will pop up before going to the printer. If you look at that file, it is organized very well, you will see the other specifics of the loads listed.

For instance, the loads you are looking at are from a 10" barrel. Now, I'm sure they are around, Contender maybe, but there aren't too many revolvers geared like that in 357Mag!

At any rate, check the older manuals to see what they say. HS-6 has been around a LONG time and you might find some useful data for it in manuals of days gone by!

Be safe, have fun!

 

[ColColt]

I don't know why with HS-6 there is use of a magnum primer for this powder. The latest Hornady manual doesn't even list HS-6 with the 357 in any weight bullet. The Speer manual doesn't show it as an option with their 158 gr LSWC in 357 but they do show it with the 38+P with standard CCI 500 primers. The older Speer #9 manual doesn't show a magnum primer with HS-6 and the 158 gr LSWC although the charge is a max load of 8.0 gr. I thought magnum primers were for powders like 296, H110 and in some cases 2400. I use 8.2 gr of HS-6 in the 45 Auto with a 230 gr FMJ without magnum primers-can't understand the need for those in 357.

My old Pacific manual(2nd Edition) doesn't even show magnum primers with H110 or 296 and the 357 but, they too list 8.0 gr as max with the 158 lead bullet. Lots of conflicting data if you compare old with new manuals.

When I tried to click the Print button in the middle, nothing popped up. It looked like a window of some sort tried to but went away immediately before I could read it.

If those velocities listed at Hodgdon is for a 10 inch barrel, I'd probably only get 700 fps from a 3 inch barrel...if I were lucky. Most loads shown are not over 1150 fps.

 

[ColColt]

OK-I got the info to pop up. they're recommending a magnum primer(Win SPM) for every powder they show data for...even Clays? That don't make sense.

 

[Skip Sackett]

Well, seems that's what they did! Call them and ask. Might have something to do with pressure, dunno.

 

[Ron H.]

I don't know why with HS-6 there is use of a magnum primer for this powder. The latest Hornady manual doesn't even list HS-6 with the 357 in any weight bullet. The Speer manual doesn't show it as an option with their 158 gr LSWC in 357 but they do show it with the 38+P with standard CCI 500 primers. The older Speer #9 manual doesn't show a magnum primer with HS-6 and the 158 gr LSWC although the charge is a max load of 8.0 gr. I thought magnum primers were for powders like 296, H110 and in some cases 2400. I use 8.2 gr of HS-6 in the 45 Auto with a 230 gr FMJ without magnum primers-can't understand the need for those in 357.

My old Pacific manual(2nd Edition) doesn't even show magnum primers with H110 or 296 and the 357 but, they too list 8.0 gr as max with the 158 lead bullet. Lots of conflicting data if you compare old with new manuals.

When I tried to click the Print button in the middle, nothing popped up. It looked like a window of some sort tried to but went away immediately before I could read it.

If those velocities listed at Hodgdon is for a 10 inch barrel, I'd probably only get 700 fps from a 3 inch barrel...if I were lucky. Most loads shown are not over 1150 fps.

Sir, my old Speer No. 11 manual usually indicates magnum primers for HS-6. I've experimented with it in standard .45 Colt loads up to the top of Hodgdon's online data, only to get incomplete ignition, mediocre accuracy, and mess generally. Maybe it works well in hot loads (I haven't tried this), but for light to midrange loads, I'd use something else.

Hope this helps, and Semper Fi.

Ron H.

 

[ColColt]

I dug out my old Speer #8 manual and they indicate, by use of an asterisk, the use the CCI 550 primer for several powders for that bullet to include HS-6. Oddly enough, the #9 manual still has the same caveat the #8 did(*Denotes the use of CCI 550 Magnum Primer) but no indication they used it in the test as it had no asterisk by HS-6...most odd. In fact the #8 manual list a max charge of 10.0 grains!!

I suppose I'll try some other powder. I know Unique and Power Pistol works well but have several pounds of HS-6 and figured that would work with the 357 as good as it does in the 45 cal.

 

[cp1969]

HS-6 is a spherical (ball) powder, which means for a given weight of powder, it has the least surface area. That's what makes ball powders harder to light than flake or extruded tubular powders. Flattened ball powders, such as 231, have more surface area and are easier to light.

 

[Erich]

ColColt, I have an amigo (a forum member) who is something of an HS-6 evangelist, and he has told me that 7.2 gr HS-6 with a CCI 550 primer in a .357 case under a 158-gr LSWC "is more like a .38 Special +P than a .357 Magnum round." I'll let him post to give his recommendation for a moderate .357 loading, which makes sense when you see the numbers.

 

[ColColt]

ColColt, I have an amigo (a forum member) who is something of an HS-6 evangelist, and he has told me that 7.2 gr HS-6 with a CCI 550 primer in a .357 case under a 158-gr LSWC "is more like a .38 Special +P than a .357 Magnum round." I'll let him post to give his recommendation for a moderate .357 loading, which makes sense when you see the numbers.

That's interesting. I just went by Speer's data data on the 38+P data and they had 6.7 gr as a max load so, I figured with all the other data I had seen that about 7.2 would be a good moderate load in the magnum case. Hodgdon's online data showed 7.0 gr as max with this powder but older manuals indicate 8.0 as max. I just did a little interpolating and figured 7.2 gr would do well. Speer doesn't show HS-6 as a powder for the 357 nor does Hornady for this weight bullet.

I'm curious what the "evangelist" will say and await his guidance.

 

[Erich]

I'll send you a PM, Col . . .

 

[Ralph G. Briscoe]

From the Hodgedon website--

110 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.590" 10.3 1614 32,600 CUP 11.5 1776 42,300 CUP
125 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.590" 9.8 1493 34,400 CUP 10.9 1629 42,100 CUP
140 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.590" 9.5 1411 35,800 CUP 10.5 1539 43,000 CUP
146 GR. SPR JHP Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.535" 8.5 1330 32,900 CUP 9.5 1461 41,800 CUP
158 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon HS-6 .358" 1.610" 6.0 990 12,900 CUP 7.0 1106 15,500 CUP
158 GR. HDY XTP Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.580" 8.0 1182 28,000 CUP 9.5 1375 41,900 CUP
170 GR. SIE JHC Hodgdon HS-6 .357" 1.580" 8.0 1181 30,900 CUP 9.2 1321 42,900 CUP

I just finished a can of HS-6 using it for .38 and .357.
Did a lot of experimenting and ended up with--
6 gr/158LSWC
in .38 (Winchester primers)
7.5 gr/125 XTP (.38)
10 gr/125 XTP (.357)

HS-6 is not the powder for mild loads--too dirty. It cleans up as you load it hotter.

 

[cp1969]

From my Hodgdon #26 manual (circa 1993)

For 158-160 gr lead bullet:

7.0 gr gives 1100 fps @ 17,500 CUP
8.0 gr gives 1161 fps @ 21,500 CUP

They specify using a magnum primer and the loads were developed in a 7" barrel. FWIW, loads using other powders develop as much as 39,800 CUP so I would consider the HS-6 load to me "mid range."

From the Lyman #49 manual:
For a 160 gr. cast bullet (Lyman 358311)

8.5 gr gave 1046 fps @ 32,600 CUP
9.7 gr gave 1225 fps @ 41,000 CUP

Lyman's test setup lists a 4" barrel on a Universal Receiver. They also used magnum primers. Their max load is not what I'd call "mid range."

 

[ColColt]

I'll send you a PM, Col . . .

Got it-thanks.

From the Hodgedon website--

158 GR. CAST LSWC Hodgdon HS-6 .358" 1.610" 6.0 990 12,900 CUP 7.0 1106 15,500 CUP

I saw this and wondered why the older manuals seemed to show even more of the same powder with the same bullet. For instance, the Speer #8 shows a max of 10.0 grs. That's a substantial increase from their minimum of 8.0 grs. I've read of folks that really bashed this particular edition from Speer but can't relate to that. I can't correlate CUP to PSI either but know that with the 38 Special +P it's 20,000 psi and the magnum 35,000 psi.

I have an old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, not sure which one as there's no date on it but, there is an add in the back of the book about a free catalog from them and that date is 1973 so, this may be a #2 manual. It doesn't list HS-6 for any bullet for the 357.

Thanks to all as I now have something better to go by. Looks like I'll have to buy those magnum primers soon and try some loads out.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I have an old Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, not sure which one as there's no date on it but, there is an add in the back of the book about a free catalog from them and that date is 1973 so, this may be a #2 manual. It doesn't list HS-6 for any bullet for the 357.

If that old manual has loads for W540 you can use that data for HS-6 since both are the same powder.

 

[ColColt]

If that old manual has loads for W540 you can use that data for HS-6 since both are the same powder.

No luck with that powder. I think with the data I've gotten now I can start working up a load with HS-6, however. I looked in my old stash and thought I may have some CCI 550 primers but only had 500's. I guess it's time for a trip to the gun shop. I'll probably have to wait until the gun show next month as locals seem to want to sell Wolf primers and I don't care for those. I'd rather use something I've got confidence in.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

IMO the reason the charges are higher in the older manuals, there were only lead bullets around then and if you wanted Magnum performance you had to push the lead bullets faster. In today's manuals they try to keep the velocity and pressure down to prevent leading and they provide data for "hotter" loads using Jacketed bullets, not lead bullets. They should give us the data and let us work out any leading problems that come along. (which won't happen with the correct bullets)

I have pushed a 158gr LSWC to much higher velocities than listed in current manuals using HS-6. I won't post that data here because it's not published in any current manual but I will tell you it's close to the data in Speer #8.

Also, you can no longer go by what primer is used in the tests done for current manuals. If you look closely you will notice all powders in the .38 Special data use a standard primer and all powders in the .357 Magnum data use a Magnum primer. I think they do that just to make things easy on themselves during testing. Like said above, why in the world would you need a Magnum primer to set off Clays???