First AR15 - Mistake?

[andyo5]

OK couldn't find it on S&W site SKU 150645

here is link to Ganders page for it suppose to be Gander Exclusive

Smith Wesson MP 15 Optics-Ready Centerfire Rifle Package - Gander Mountain

The Gander Mountain page that you listed shows a rifle with a flash hider. If yours has none, I believe that alone is grounds for a refund. If they refused to do this, I would stop doing business with them and tell everyone I know how they conducted themselves.

 

[oneyeopn]

some states flash hiders or even threaded muzzles are illegal!!

 

[bunkshaner]

I stopped by a Gander Mountain in Salisbury, MD for the first time in my life a few months ago on our way down to Chincoteague,VA. Anyway, we just loved all the inventory they had and figured on spending a descent amount of money while we were there. But we couldn't get anybody to wait on us. After an hour and 30 minutes we decided to stop back by on the way home. Same thing...nobody would wait on us...customer service reps would just walk right past us (we even had to take a number at the gun counter and they still refused to wait on us with number in hand!). Finally we left without spending a dime. By the time I got home (1hr30min drive) I was really ticked off. I usually don't do this type of thing but I sent them an email about my experience there. A manager called me the next day explaining they have been busy and they have been using different dept personnel to cover the extra business at the gun counter. But overall I didn't think he truly gave a fart one way or the other. From the conversations I heard while standing in line the employees didn't know their products and worst of all really didnt seem like they cared to even be there. Sorry had to get that off my chest about Gander Mt. but I wont step foot back in there after the treatment I received. I am glad they seem to be working things out for you. You should surely be getting what you paid for.

 

[ARGH]

Use home defense ammo, like winchester pdx 60 grain hollow point, and it will solve the over penetration issue. One center mass placement with a 60+ grain 2700+ fps hollow point round will end the fight.

I prefer to have on standby an ar15 tactical setup over a shotgun for critical home defense. 30 rounds, an eotech 512 cowitnessed, and tactical light with laser.

dont get me wrong, though. For a simple intruder one shotgun blast will tear off chunks from his torso. But what if there is more than one? The violent home invasions are planned and bring 2 or 3 armed bad guys. I just dont feel that a shotgun is really the best home defense weapon when u factor everything in.

 

[cyphertext]

For a simple intruder one shotgun blast will tear off chunks from his torso. But what if there is more than one? The violent home invasions are planned and bring 2 or 3 armed bad guys. I just dont feel that a shotgun is really the best home defense weapon when u factor everything in.

Many shotguns hold more than one round...even Joe Biden's holds two!

At hallway distance, nothing beats the shotgun. With 00 Buck, I am putting 9 .30 cal pellets into center of mass with one pull of the trigger. At the distance from my bedroom doorway, down the hallway and into the living room, those 9 pellets have about a 4 inch spread.

 

[ARGH]

They dont spread at short ranges. They need 25 yards to start spreading. You still have to aim with it. I prefer 30 rounds over 7 with less recoil.

 

[cyphertext]

They dont spread at short ranges. They need 25 yards to start spreading. You still have to aim with it. I prefer 30 rounds over 7 with less recoil.

You are mistaken. You don't need 25 yards before they spread. If I had to shoot 25 yards before the shot would spread, I would never hit a flying dove when hunting. You have just proven that you have no clue what you are talking about.

My HD shotgun has about a 4 inch spread at 7 yards. I know this, as I have tested my shotgun with my particular load at that range. I know what kind of pattern to expect.

I am not concerned with recoil, as I have grown up hunting with a shotgun and am capable of handling it. If you are involved in a gun fight in your home that requires 30 rounds, you probably are not walking away from it.

The rifle exceeds the shotguns capabilities when it comes to distance and / or precision shooting. But again, down the hallway, the shotgun is king.

 

[cyphertext]

Cyphertext- The wounds are nasty indeed and the shots were from 15-30 ft on 3 different individuals. They were all deceased at the time I saw them and were missing large portions of their sternum, lungs, and heart. After looking at them and comparing shot size, 4,5,6 were used respectively and only one shot was fired. Clothing was tshirt + shirt/, t shirt/ light jacket, t shirt+ shirt+ light jacket. I do not know the choke of the shotguns used, and no I can not post photos. I do not know of any gelatin tests that I could compare/contrast, maybe the 20 would not do well on gelatin! I only have these 3 examples that I saw. I would prefer a 12 ga with 00,000 buck for myself and that is what I use. Be Safe,

That is interesting, as it goes against gelatin tests, but when one loses large portions of their sternum, lungs, and heart, they are probably going to stop. Any idea on how long it took for them to shut down and no longer be a threat? I would assume with that damage, it would be immediate.

 

[oneyeopn]

For very close in house personal protection my wife has a 20 guage pump. Our house is 24ft wide and 36ft long. Even with number 6 shot that would hurt alot. Part of our protection scheme is our farm animals. To protect the poultry and pygmy goats I have to be precise. So I can see a purpose for owning both. For our farm protection I can see where a savage 42v would be awesome.

 

[cyphertext]

For very close in house personal protection my wife has a 20 guage pump. Our house is 24ft wide and 36ft long. Even with number 6 shot that would hurt alot. Part of our protection scheme is our farm animals. To protect the poultry and pygmy goats I have to be precise. So I can see a purpose for owning both. For our farm protection I can see where a savage 42v would be awesome.

Agree Grover, both have their place. I don't have much land outside the walls of my home, just the average suburbia sized yard, so I just don't need the range that the rifle gives. There are limited scenarios that I would possibly need the precision, but most are unlikely.

 

[ARGH]

You are mistaken. You don't need 25 yards before they spread. If I had to shoot 25 yards before the shot would spread, I would never hit a flying dove when hunting. You have just proven that you have no clue what you are talking about.

My HD shotgun has about a 4 inch spread at 7 yards. I know this, as I have tested my shotgun with my particular load at that range. I know what kind of pattern to expect.

I am not concerned with recoil, as I have grown up hunting with a shotgun and am capable of handling it. If you are involved in a gun fight in your home that requires 30 rounds, you probably are not walking away from it.

The rifle exceeds the shotguns capabilities when it comes to distance and / or precision shooting. But again, down the hallway, the shotgun is king.

you are taking what i wrote out of context.

of course the shotgun round will spread but not such a spread where you can just fire from the hip rambo style in home defense distance. you still need to aim the damn thing.

recoil is ok with you but may not be by a female shooter during this panic situation.

i agree that down the hallway, on a single target that doesn't shoot back, shotgun is king.

but if you are faced with bad guys that intend to do harm i prefer an ar15 over the shotty.

Armed Homeowner Shoots Robbers During Daytime Invasion (AZ) - YouTube

 

[august242]

Good eye on catching that "Maryland compliant" fineprint / caveat at the end of the product description, Bobermo.

Well done indeed.

 

[vipermd]

Cyphertext: I was told that "hostile" intent stopped immediately. PM Sent. Be Safe.

 

[cyphertext]

you are taking what i wrote out of context.

of course the shotgun round will spread but not such a spread where you can just fire from the hip rambo style in home defense distance. you still need to aim the damn thing.

How did I take anything out of context? You said it takes 25 yards for the shot to spread...I quoted your whole message. No one has said anything about shooting a shotgun from the hip except you. No one has assumed that you don't have to aim... But 9 .30 caliber pellets in a 4 inch circle center of mass has a much higher chance of stopping the threat with one shot, than one 5.56mm round. That is where the shotgun is more advantageous. At close range, such as home defense, it causes massive damage.

recoil is ok with you but may not be by a female shooter during this panic situation.

There are reduced recoil loads for 12 gauge, and the 20 gauge with the proper loads is effective as well. Hits with the same punch, just less payload. I would never advocate birdshot based on what I have read, but ViperMD has provided some first hand experience where results of actual shootings differ from gelatin tests.

i agree that down the hallway, on a single target that doesn't shoot back, shotgun is king.

but if you are faced with bad guys that intend to do harm i prefer an ar15 over the shotty.

What does the bad guy shooting back have to do with anything? Is the shotgun less effective if the bad guy shoots back? I am unaware of any evidence to support that position.

Armed Homeowner Shoots Robbers During Daytime Invasion (AZ) - YouTube

I would like to know more of the story on that video. Looked like it was gang or drug related, possibly hitting the wrong house. The firearm is a very small piece of the total home security package. The video cams are what gave that home owner the advantage there, not the AR. Had he grabbed a shotgun and put several rounds towards them, the outcome would have been the same. The thugs were not prepared for resistance.

Again, both have their place. If you are more comfortable with an AR, then use it. I have had a shotgun in my hand since I was knee high to a grasshopper, so that is what I tend to grab. If I were to take the fight outside, I would grab the rifle for more precision since my shot would spread too much at longer distance. However, living in suburbia, I have no reason to take the fight outside during a burglary. It is only property outside, and while in Texas I can legally shoot to defend property, the legal costs make it not worth it.

 

[crofoot629]

I'd want a flash hider on my HD AR.
And I just stick with M193 for range and home.
I stacked the IMI M-193 deep when it was cheap.

And fwiw I load my 12GA's with double 00. Both for home and woods. With slugs on the side.

Emory

 

[oneyeopn]

I don't know how it is late at night when you are asleep...But in my house if I have to get up and grab a gun...its going to be a 1911, so the shotgun/MSR debate is kinda mute in reality. I keep my rifles cased, the shotgun is in a scabbard on the wife's side. She will back me up as I head out with a 1911 and a couple of mags. But outside is a different story... LOL

 

[Lost Lake]

I see two more back in stock and neither say compliant for any state. Although one if 400.00 higher.

https://secure.gandermountain.com/modperl/cart/cart.cgi for 1099.00

Smith Wesson MP 15 Optics-Ready Centerfire Rifle Package - Gander Mountain for 1499.00

pro's or con's for either? Or is it just better to be patient and wait for a more reasonable 699.00 or 799.00 model? I really want the S&W over and above a Bushmaster. I think the quality is better with S&W or I could be wrong.

Any opinions? I doubt I find one locally anytime soon. They have people waiting around on the days FedEx delivers and they are immediately snatched up.

I'm late to the party and your first link doesn't work anymore, but that second one wasn't a bad deal. An M&P OR with an Eotech 512.

I'm siding with you Quackertoo, especially as this was your first AR. The seller should insure they are depicting their products properly. Your card was charged already, and maybe the flash suppressor was in a bag of parts. You are not the expert here, they are supposed to be.

The only thing I would have done differently is told them I want my new AR NOW, as they screwed up, I need it for a training course and an event or two and I won't wait at the back of the line for the AR they already charged me for!

And I would have taken that argument right up the chain of command until I got to someone that would make it happen.

.

 

[Maddmax]

But what if there is more than one? The violent home invasions are planned and bring 2 or 3 armed bad guys. I just dont feel that a shotgun is really the best home defense weapon when u factor everything in.

You need a better shotgun that holds more than a couple shotgun shells.

 

[JaPes]

You need a better shotgun that holds more than a couple shotgun shells.

Amen brothers Maddmax and Cyphertext.

I have this handy:

So I can get to this:

Whatever I shoot, aiming is key. That's why I chose the Benelli. The ghost ring sight is easy and fast to use. Extended tube is loaded with 00 Buckshot, rifled slugs in the stock saddle.

The AR15 is last in line. The AR means that a local or regional disaster has occurred.

 

[oneyeopn]

Yeah our Winnie 20ga Pump holds 8. I promise you, you wanna make somebody go potty in their pants. Let them be sneaking around and hear a pump shotgun and a 1911 slide. They will lay down at your feet!
Although JaPes's pistol makes me think a flashlight/strobe mounting on the Shotgun would work.