Thoughts on the Ammo Situation

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And I do disagree with you on one point, ammo IS a need. Without it you can't really protect yourself and loved ones from people who have it. ;)

A few hundred rounds? understandable. A few thousand? Come on. You'll be dead by the time you can fire off .22LR's. What are you going to shoot at as a threat? The hoard of rabid jackrabbits?
 
just look at the in stock .22lr ammo thread. look a peoples posts that mostly joined this year. their posts are all for the in stock .22 ammo thread, no interest in 15-22s, just ammo. I say shut it down for good.
 
just look at the in stock .22lr ammo thread. look a peoples posts that mostly joined this year. their posts are all for the in stock .22 ammo thread, no interest in 15-22s, just ammo. I say shut it down for good.

Agree'd. Its not a tight enough community to help each other out. It helps the lurkers that quietly charge up their credit cards then true shooters.
 
So this is an amusing thread and from a different perspective. I notice that almost all posters here are new to the forum and it seems like shooting. Add young on top of it and we get the expected results. There is a different view. We've had ammo shortages and component shortages for years. They come and go, but about the only real common element is they reoccur.

For some background, back in the early 70s we had gasoline rationing caused by the "Arab oil embargo". The then liberal congress felt the fair way to solve it was to just allow everyone to buy a small amount and keep the price "reasonable." What happened was everyone found a way to cheat or they just didn't have enough. Some folks, like retirees or the unemployed actually had more than they needed. Others like those who drove long distances didn't have enough.

The current system seems better for ammo. If you want ammo, you can get it. Might not be at a price you want, but its out there. I have a friend who had 300 gallons of Shell's finest in his barn. He had connections and he used them.

I'm even amused at the guy who thinks 10,000 rounds is a bit much. Once you've been through this, you won't think that at all and you'll have that much as a "safety stock". I do, but I'm considering selling it because there are guys who want to shoot so badly they'll pay $100 a brick. But if they're building a supply at that kind of pricing, they'll be taking a huge loss. Sooner or later we can pretty accurately predict things will sort of return to normal. Meaning the Walmarts will all have their 550 packs for anyone who wants them. Sure, they'll cost more than the $13.42 I was paying 5 years ago. But keep in mind all prices are going up. You can't run trillion dollar deficits without igniting some inflation. I don't look at government numbers, I look at the price of a burger and fries. It keeps going up.

So what happens to the guy with 100,000 rounds who paid $100 a brick? :D He'll have to shoot it because he can't sell it for anything like his cost.

Another interesting parallel comes up with components. Todays price for a "brick" of primers, 1,000 of them, is about $37-40. Depends on the brand and seller. In my ancient stock I've still got some that were around $7. I was incensed when they doubled to $14. When supplies stabilized and I saw some at $9 I bought a bunch. Then I stopped buying because I had enough. Then in the early 1980s (when most of you weren't even born) I got another rude awakening. Primers had slipped up above $20. Then when Clinton showed up, they went to nearly $30. Things were OK for a while and they remained just under $30. Now suddenly they've taken another jump and some of the much maligned hoarders are dumping them at $50 and above if they find a buyer. Yes, I still have some of the $7 ones. :) Better still I have a few hundred from my father that he bought in the 1950s (you can tell because they have wooden trays.)

If you're upset, its OK with me. Consider it a lesson in being prepared. If you're not, either find another hobby or tough it out. The most sound economic policy for those without ammo or anything else is to buy as little as you can survive without. We're all telling you the same thing. In the past every single shortage has been relieved by the free market system. Sure, there will be a higher "new normal", but it won't be nearly as high as us scalpers demand. Its foolish to attempt to buy a multi-year supply at the high rates. But remember there will be another a few years out. Learn from your mistakes.

The Japanese introduced a model of just-in-time. For shooting that means stop at Wallyworld on your way to the range and pick up a box of ammo. Works great until a few guys decide they want more than the single day's supply. Then what you see is what we currently have. Doesn't work so well. The marketplace is populated by guys who feel 100 rounds is plenty and then old coots like me who feel 50,000 is a good round number. All we can say with any certainty is that the guys with 100 rounds won't be shooting much an will spend a lot of time visiting WalMart trying to find more. Gasoline to get there, too. We also can say with a pretty good certainty that I'll still be shooting for a while.

Actually I am not too young myself, remember the gas shortages and all the other mentioned things. I have an emergency storage of many things, food, water , ammo, ect in case things get ugly, and I have for years. The military if nothing else teaches you to be prepared. (not to mention boy scouts lol!)

As I have said in numerous posts, I don't have any problems with the system, and I am not upset that I got caught without a stock of .22lr. (I actually never considered for a second that .22 would be an issue and that's my fault)

What bothers me is the greed, and lack of ethics in the market. Especially in stores that cater to gun folks. They have to know about repeat business and word of mouth, and their business was built on the backs of gun folks, yet they jump on the $1.00 a round for .22lr bandwagon. I expect that from auction sites and scalpers, but I don't expect it from gun stores. I appreciate an overhead and a decent markup to cover it. But this is NOT what's happening and we both know it.

I find it odd when I can trust walmart to keep the prices normal and not my lgs, when I have been loyal to my lgs, and spent more gun related money there to support them than I ever did or will walmart. At these prices I feel like they owe me a dinner and a kiss for what they are trying to do to me. And that, to me, is the problem. It's unethical and greedy flat out.
 
A few hundred rounds? understandable. A few thousand? Come on. You'll be dead by the time you can fire off .22LR's. What are you going to shoot at as a threat? The hoard of rabid jackrabbits?

If necessary, yes. :D Actually .22lr is one of the primary calibers in a survival type situation for food gathering. Cheap, light, accurate, quiet, and can kill a large variety of game. I would hunt with it for anything smaller than deer before I would use up my larger, more expensive ammo.
 
I can't believe this post is still going. We all know the ammo "shortage" is BS and that a free market creates gouging. Some of you may remember when Nintendo Wii was a hot commodity... Didn't take long until everyone that wanted it had one and then you couldn't give one away and the stores were full of them. That day is coming folks. Now shut down the in stock ammo thread and quit paying ridiculous prices for ammo and this **** will go away.
 
I am extremely familiar with economics, supply and demand, and the free market system, and would have it no other way, as I said. It makes no difference to me, as I have several thousand rounds of my go to calibers at all times. However, the problem is for me, that I see some very unethical and questionable behavior going on out there, from gun guys, to gun guys. As I said, to me, it will always be unethical to sell something you are still only paying $20 or less for for $500 just to take advantage of someone's need or panic. To me, that is beyond greedy, and unethical. If that doesn't bother you, I guess there is no since for you and I to discuss it really. Thanks for the input. (and the little red hen story doesn't really apply.)

We are not talking about air, food or water. .22 LR ammo is a nonessential commodity, like booze. A commodity is worth what the market will pay. Just because I bought gold in 1987 for $350 an oz does not mean I will sell it to you for that. There is nothing unethical about that.

BTW, The Little Red Hen is completely relevant for all the people who feel entitled to the spoils, benefits (or pricing) of all hard working, prepared and experienced people of the world. If the price of ammo is too high, don't buy. Just wait. It will come down.
 
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If necessary, yes. :D Actually .22lr is one of the primary calibers in a survival type situation for food gathering. Cheap, light, accurate, quiet, and can kill a large variety of game. I would hunt with it for anything smaller than deer before I would use up my larger, more expensive ammo.

Good luck spending days tracking down what you shot.
 
We are not talking about air, food or water. .22 LR ammo is a nonessential commodity, like booze. A commodity is worth what the market will pay. Just because I bought gold in 1987 for $350 an oz does not mean I will sell it to you for that. There is nothing unethical about that.

BTW, The Little Red Hen is completely relevant for all the people who feel entitled to the spoils, benefits (or pricing) of all hard working, prepared and experienced people of the world. If the price of ammo is too high, don't buy. Just wait. It will come down.

Yes, but I am not a something for nothing guy, and this is not a something for nothing question, it is a question of ethics. In my opinion. And I have also seen people exhibit this behavior to people in desperate need with vital supplies. I'm not knocking anyone trying to make a decent wage, or earn a living. When I see my local gun store put a $85.00 sticker over a $20.99 walmart sticker, THAT I have a problem with.
 
I'm old enough to remember the $100 cabbage patch dolls.....
Things will settle down, they always do. I try to stay 2-3 years ahead on reloading stuff but I gotta admit this .22 thing caught me off guard, I haven't counted my .22 shells since high school days, but I watch it pretty close now.
 
And your options are to walk away, do without, find it elsewhere, or pay the man. Pardon the pun, but no one has a gun to your head and this commodity is NOT required to sustain life, not illegally gotten gains, and not under control of anyone but the owner. I'm tired of the entightlment mentality. I substantially extended my supply SINCE all this started, paying on average $0.04 for .22, $0.25 for 9, $0.30 for 40 and .223, and $0.60 for 45 LC; ALL NAME BRAND, a box here, a box there. I worked at it, taking time to stop in places like Walmart instead of driving by, keeping my eyes open, and networking with friends to multiply our eyes and feet on the street. Like life, hard work and cooperation will always get you ahead. Whining never does. I may even go sell some now as profit for my efforts just for the heck of it. I heard some think $0.10 is a reasonable price for my $0.04 .22 and will pay as high as $0.25.

PS - I also have a bunch of canned goods, dry goods, bottled water and gasoline. I'm such a bad person for thinking beyond today and never expecting someone else to prepare for me.

PPS - I live less than 2 miles from the local resevoir and the Town charges me more than $800 for water in the summer. How would you deal with that???

Yes, but I am not a something for nothing guy, and this is not a something for nothing question, it is a question of ethics. In my opinion. And I have also seen people exhibit this behavior to people in desperate need with vital supplies. I'm not knocking anyone trying to make a decent wage, or earn a living. When I see my local gun store put a $85.00 sticker over a $20.99 walmart sticker, THAT I have a problem with.
 
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When freedom depends upon one persons opinion is it becomes tyranny of the one over the many.

It's ammo dude, get a life and be prepared for the next time. Consider it a teaching moment. I am really tired of all these "it's not fair, he bought too much" or "he's got too much money to blow and buy ammo so he is stupid, an abuser or his fault this is happening to me etc.." or "its gouging there outta be a law"

Man up. There is no ban. At some point within the next year you will be able to buy ammo. Look at those people crying "m4's will never be affordable again" and "Pmags buy them for $50 before they go up more". How wrong they were. Colt 6920s are back down to under $1100 not even 6 months later. In a few months ARs will sell for less than what they did in December. I was at the shot show and everyone had their 2013 production run sold out and were running 24/7. But if supply has caught up with demand by the beginning of May imagine what the oversupply is going to be like at the end of summer.

We went through the same thing when McCain lost. Ammo was scarce, shortages, prices up. It ended within the year and I was paying $350 for 1K rounds of federal xm193 again.

By Christmas with no ban in sight you think the MRS. is going to let her husband continue to stock up thousands of rounds when there are presents to be bought for the kids?

Relax. Stop blaming everyone else for your failure to plan. Save your money and when you find ammo, purchase all you want. I served 10 yrs in the Army for your freedom to buy as much as you want and sell it for whatever the market will bear regardless of anyone's opinion.

BTW I haven't purchased ammo in over a year.
 
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When freedom depends upon one persons opinion is it becomes tyranny of the one over the many.

It's ammo dude, get a life and be prepared for the next time. Consider it a teaching moment. I am really tired of all these "it's not fair, he bought too much" or "he's got too much money to blow and buy ammo so he is stupid, an abuser or his fault this is happening to me etc.." or "its gouging there outta be a law"

Man up. There is no ban. At some point within the next year you will be able to buy ammo. Look at those people crying "m4's will never be affordable again" and "Pmags buy them for $50 before they go up more". How wrong they were. Colt 6920s are back down to under $1100 not even 6 months later. In a few months ARs will sell for less than what they did in December. I was at the shot show and everyone had their 2013 production run sold out and were running 24/7. But if supply has caught up with demand by the beginning of May imagine what the oversupply is going to be like at the end of summer.

We went through the same thing when McCain lost. Ammo was scarce, shortages, prices up. It ended within the year and I was paying $350 for 1K rounds of federal xm193.

By Christmas with no ban in sight you think the MRS. is going to let her husband continue to stock up thousands of rounds when there are presents to be bought for the kids?

Relax. Stop blaming everyone else for your failure to plan. Save your money and when you find ammo, purchase all you want. I served 10 yrs in the Army for your freedom to buy as much as you want regardless of anyones opinion.

Amen, and thank you for your service to our fine country. We stand behind you.
 
I love how all the hoarders talk about learning a lesson and being prepared.

Sitting on the 10's of thousands of rounds and they couldn't hit a house if they were on the inside of it shooting out.

I call being prepared shooting weekly, and i do.

The ammo is out there but doesn't change the fact that ammobob is right, and enthusisasts are screwing their own kind..

Only ammo i'm short is 22lr, and that's because in January I passed on an entire shelf of it at the basspro in altoona iowa, because I had plenty at the time and very literally sat there and thought to myself i don't want to contribute to the problem.. but like i said i shoot allot and weekly so even a reasonable stockpile doesn't last 5 months if you actually shoot.
 
In the immortal words of Pogo, "We have met the enemy, and it is us!"
 
And your options are to walk away, do without, find it elsewhere, or pay the man. Pardon the pun, but no one has a gun to your head and this commodity is NOT required to sustain life, not illegally gotten gains, and not under control of anyone but the owner. I'm tired of the entightlment mentality. I substantially extended my supply SINCE all this started, paying on average $0.04 for .22, $0.25 for 9, $0.30 for 40 and .223, and $0.60 for 45 LC; ALL NAME BRAND, a box here, a box there. I worked at it, taking time to stop in places like Walmart instead of driving by, keeping my eyes open, and networking with friends to multiply our eyes and feet on the street. Like life, hard work and cooperation will always get you ahead. Whining never does. I may even go sell some now as profit for my efforts just for the heck of it. I heard some think $0.10 is a reasonable price for my $0.04 .22 and will pay as high as $0.25.

PS - I also have a bunch of canned goods, dry goods, bottled water and gasoline. I'm such a bad person for thinking beyond today and never expecting someone else to prepare for me.

PPS - I live less than 2 miles from the local resevoir and the Town charges me more than $800 for water in the summer. How would you deal with that???

Firstly, nobody said anything about entitlement of any sort. You may want to reread. Secondly, nobody was whining, just trying to wrap my head around what I feel is clearly extremely unethical behavior. As I said multiple times, I prepare quite extensively, and have never expected anyone to give me anything. There is such a thing as profit, and there it such a thing as Profiteering. Look it up.

And how would I deal with a town charging me $800 for water? Very simple. I'd dig a well. If that's not an option, I'd move. If that's not an option I'd pay it. I don't agree with it especially, but I don't know the situation. Maybe you knew that when you moved there? I planned ahead when I bought my property and bought a place with plenty of on site water, so I don't have that problem.

I don't begrudge anyone making a profit, but I do not agree with some of the stores very unethical business practices.
 
When freedom depends upon one persons opinion is it becomes tyranny of the one over the many.

It's ammo dude, get a life and be prepared for the next time. Consider it a teaching moment. I am really tired of all these "it's not fair, he bought too much" or "he's got too much money to blow and buy ammo so he is stupid, an abuser or his fault this is happening to me etc.." or "its gouging there outta be a law"

Man up. There is no ban. At some point within the next year you will be able to buy ammo. Look at those people crying "m4's will never be affordable again" and "Pmags buy them for $50 before they go up more". How wrong they were. Colt 6920s are back down to under $1100 not even 6 months later. In a few months ARs will sell for less than what they did in December. I was at the shot show and everyone had their 2013 production run sold out and were running 24/7. But if supply has caught up with demand by the beginning of May imagine what the oversupply is going to be like at the end of summer.

We went through the same thing when McCain lost. Ammo was scarce, shortages, prices up. It ended within the year and I was paying $350 for 1K rounds of federal xm193 again.

By Christmas with no ban in sight you think the MRS. is going to let her husband continue to stock up thousands of rounds when there are presents to be bought for the kids?

Relax. Stop blaming everyone else for your failure to plan. Save your money and when you find ammo, purchase all you want. I served 10 yrs in the Army for your freedom to buy as much as you want and sell it for whatever the market will bear regardless of anyone's opinion.

BTW I haven't purchased ammo in over a year.

I'm not really sure why you are all ginned up, I never said any of those things or blamed anyone for anything, nor did I ever say there was a ban, in fact I stated the opposite. I was simply trying to wrap my head around the seriously unethical business practices of some. I never blamed anyone for anything. As for Man up, well that kind of stuff doesn't even deserve a response. Maybe you want to reread from the beginning? Seems your gripe is with someone else. And as for your service, good for you. I've got sand in my boots too, and a permanent limp to go with it, so we're more than even there. Those rights we fought for doesn't mean that people have reason to be unethical, even though they can. That's called lack of integrity. I know for all of the guys I stood with integrity was extremely important. Why is it so much less important now?

And I do not see the original post by Red Neck Jim that is being quoted?

Also for kicks look up the terms "Just Price" and "Profiteering" and maybe "Business Ethics" among others on wikipedia. Some interesting cross reads there as well.
 
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