News for Remington "FBI Load" fans:

[CoMF]

Apologies in advance if this has already been addressed, but while I was perusing MidwayUSA's website I noticed a new line of ammo from Remington called High Terminal Performance (HTP), and included in that line is the tried and true LHP (LSWCHP) +P!

The differences are where it gets interesting... According to Remington's own website, the new load has higher retained velocities and muzzle energy from a 4" vented test barrel (890/872/855 and 278/267/256 versus 890/855/823 and 278/257/238 at 0/50/100 yards, respectively), but has standard brass cases as opposed to the Express line's nickel plated ones and apparently will retail for less than the latter.

If anyone has any information to add about this new product line, please feel free to add to this thread. I can't wait until it becomes available so I can see for myself if the new HTP line is a better value than the old Express line. I'm especially curious to know how they achieved better RV/RME with the new stuff... Better powders? New bullet?

 

[Waywatcher]

This looks very promising indeed, I look forward to trying some. I prefer unplated brass anyways, so the changes all sound welcome to me.

 

[CoMF]

This looks very promising indeed, I look forward to trying some. I prefer unplated brass anyways, so the changes all sound welcome to me.

If I reloaded, the brass cases would be a welcome change for me as well. My biggest concerns are the bullet being the same as the one that's been used for years (i.e. the one that "works" and has a proven track record), that the brass isn't the same cheap quality reserved for inexpensive plinking ammo, and that the QC isn't going to take a nose dive. I for one do not want to see a return to the days of misshapen bullet noses, sloppy primer sealing, bullet lube encrusted casings and bullets seated to the absolute bare minimum depth resulting in headaches with speedloaders due to the increased OAL.

 

[markush]

This may show my ignorance but...why? Isn't the "FBI Loads" sole purpose to be shot out of snub noses? Their stating 20 fps and 10 FT LBS at 50 yards???

 

[CoMF]

This may show my ignorance but...why? Isn't the "FBI Loads" sole purpose to be shot out of snub noses?

Well, not exactly... It's just a happy coincidence that Remington's version of this load seems to work surprisingly well at snub nose velocities.

However, I can see why this may feel like Remington is "reinventing the wheel," so to speak.

Their stating 20 fps and 10 FT LBS at 50 yards???

Seems to be, if the numbers are to be believed. My biggest question is: How the heck are they accomplishing this? I half wonder if they changed the bullet...

 

[markush]

double post

 

[shawn mccarver]

This may show my ignorance but...why? Isn't the "FBI Loads" sole purpose to be shot out of snub noses? Their stating 20 fps and 10 FT LBS at 50 yards???

The FBI traditionally issued "service revolvers," not snub nose revolvers. Their qualification course, until comparatively recently, had a 60 yard stage.

 

[Fishinfool]

If both the old and new bullet are the same weight, and start at the same velocity, yet the new bullet retains down range velocity better, then they had to change the bullet somehow to slightly increase its BC.

Why, I don't know, as the increases are basically meaningless, and the soft lead Remington version of the FBI load always had a good reputation as it was for expansion and penetration.

Larry

 

[Nevada Ed]

Better BC bullet, I would think...........
What ever they did , I hope the bullet is still dead soft lead that will expand a little out of a snub nose.

I never checked..................Just shot them.
was the original "FBI" load a flat base, beveled base bullet or a small convex like some Federal target bullets?

 

[MichiganScott]

And Midway defines "coming soon" as 10/1/2013. I would expect that date gets moved back to sometime in 2014 at the earliest.

 

[CoMF]

And Midway defines "coming soon" as 10/1/2013. I would expect that date gets moved back to sometime in 2014 at the earliest.

Ain't that the truth!

 

[CoMF]

The general consensus seems to be that the most likely explanation for the mildly improved RV/RME numbers is a revised bullet design with a better ballistic coefficient. This makes perfect sense, at least to me anyway. However, I'm hoping it still retains the same construction and expansion characteristics of the Express bullet just as you folks are.

Also, a quick Google search has revealed that there's a smattering of online sellers that have it listed in their catalogs. Naturally, it's "sold out" across the board... Then again, they could just be following the MidwayUSA example of listing something that hasn't even been released into mass circulation yet.

I'm going to see if my LGS can obtain some from their distributor later this week. If anyone's interested in trying to do the same, the Remington box number is RTP38S12. If, by some miracle, anybody is able to obtain some, by all means post some photos and perhaps a range review in a seperate thread. I intend to do the same if I can actually chase down this new load.

 

[shouldazagged]

Call me a sentimental old fool, but I'm going to need so see some real testing to think this will really be an improvement. I've carried the Express version for years, and am thinking about trying the Buffalo Bore non-+P stuff for the same reason: soft lead and bullet construction that lends itself to expansion.

 

[kaaskop49]

Appreciate CoMF's thread and all the feedback about the LHP upgrade. As do some other posters, I wonder what this 'improvement' will accomplish. If R-P wanted to improve the LHP, they should bump up the velocity back to the measured 1014 fps it chrono'd in a 4" revolver back in the mid 70s. That was a whizz-banger, as were many +Ps back then.

Afraid I won't be buying the 'new and improved.' I still have a couple of boxes of the 70s W-W ammo, both the SPD-LHP and the WCP semi-WC, to use W-W's terminology. No, they're not for sale:
they're presently gainfully employed in the chambers of my revolvers.

CoMF: Thanks again!

 

[ArchAngelCD]

My opinion and only my opinion, it's the same old ammo packaged in a newer box so they can charge us more. With a brand new box and name we can charge them more!!!

 

[PALADIN85020]

I'd be remiss if not warning folks against using the FBI LSWCHP+P load in lightweight snubbies like the 642 and 442. These will drive the light gun back sharply, and the remaining heavy bullets, through the principle of inertia at rest, tend to stay in place; the effect is that the bullets can and will pull from their cases and protrude from the face of the cylinder; this ties the gun up. The all-steel versions such as the 640 and 649 don't have this potential problem.

John

 

[CoMF]

kaaskop,

No problem, and you're quite welcome. I'm just happy to get the word out because I know this load has a pretty devoted following, myself included.

Also, I don't blame you one bit for holding on to that stash! If this new HTP line proves to be a waste of money, I fortunately have a decent quantity of the Express ammo stored away and will continue to buy it as long as Remington doesn't discontinue that line.

 

[CoMF]

Call me a sentimental old fool, but I'm going to need so see some real testing to think this will really be an improvement.

Funny you should mention that. I wonder if we could find out the answer to that by sending a box (once it's available) and a small monetary donation to Brass Fetcher or tnoutdoors9?

 

[shawn mccarver]

I'd be remiss if not warning folks against using the FBI LSWCHP+P load in lightweight snubbies like the 642 and 442. These will drive the light gun back sharply, and the remaining heavy bullets, through the principle of inertia at rest, tend to stay in place; the effect is that the bullets can and will pull from their cases and protrude from the face of the cylinder; this ties the gun up. The all-steel versions such as the 640 and 649 don't have this potential problem.

John

I have not had this problem in the 642 or 442 using the Winchester version. I have not tried this load in the AirLight Ti revolver line, so I cannot speak to whether it occurs with the 342 and similar scandium/titanium revolvers.

 

[Malpasowildlifer]

yay! Hopefully it won't be $60.00 a box. Remington stuff has skyrocketed