.22 rimfire vs. my sweat

David Sinko

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Lately I've been carrying my 43C pressed against my flesh while running. Today at the range I decided to fire those rounds that have been subjected to my sweat for about a month. The rims had become tarnished and I figured it's time to get rid of them. Only four of the eight rounds fired! Ammo is the Federal copper plated HP in the 550 round value pack.

So how is the priming being defeated? Is the sweat actually eating through the rims and destroying the priming mixture? The rim as I see it is simply discolored and does not appear to be compromised.

Dave Sinko
 
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I've had many issues with Federal 22LR ammo not firing. My LCR22 won't even fire them with its super heavy firing pin strike. My Federal failure rate is about 1/2, which is pretty close to what you're experiencing. Did you try different ammo?
 
I've had many issues with Federal 22LR ammo not firing. My LCR22 won't even fire them with its super heavy firing pin strike. My Federal failure rate is about 1/2, which is pretty close to what you're experiencing. Did you try different ammo?

If you really and truly have a 50% rate of duds with Federal ammo from more than one lot number, you have a gun problem, not an ammo problem.
 
Out of curiosity, what's the failure rate for non-soaked cartridges?

.22LR's are not exactly known for being moisture proof. Change 'em out after each run and save them for the range.
 
This ammo fires 100% of the time under "normal" conditions. It's not a gun problem. And I perform daily maintenance on this revolver to ensure that the steel in it does not rust.

The problem is definitely with the ammo and obviously the sweat has something to do with it. I'm wondering if the priming has been compromised through the rim or if sweat has somehow infiltrated the powder charge around the heel bullet. I guess I should pull the bullets of those four cartridges and see what the powder looks like.

Dave Sinko
 
If sweat caused your problem it would be working it's way around the bullet and into the powder then the primer. It can happen but it would be far more likely that you have a bad lot of ammo to start with or that your gun needs to be detail stripped and cleaned. I have seen a few CCW guns that had a buildup of crud and corrosion that was bad enough to slow down the works on the inside while still looking good on the outside.

By the way, even though 22 rimfire is not as well sealed as some other ammo it can be pretty durable. Some years ago I was given a cartridge collection that had been left on a basement floor after the owner passed away. The ammo had gotten wet, all the boxes were stuck together and ruined and all the ammo was tarnished, some of it almost completely green. Before I dismantled it I thought I would try shooting some and to my surprise it all fired. I sorted it from best condition to worst and have slowly shot it up as plinking ammo using the worst looking stuff first. I have had fewer misfires out of this old assorted stuff than I have gotten out of a single bulk box of new Remington.
 
David, just saw your post that the ammo has been fine up to this point. I would say pull the bullets on the misfired rounds and see what the powder looks like. If sweat is getting into the ammo and causing your problem it would have to get in around the bullet and contaminate the powder first. Simply not possible for it to get in through the rim as it is one piece of formed metal with no openings.
 
I would look into a center fire light weight pistol.
Most sd ammo costs more because of better seal of primers, bullet and powder.
I only use cci mini mag. in my pistols. Or stingers etc.
bulk pack is only good for target ammo and now that I have bought a ruger single six 22lr. You can feel the bulk ammo side in every now and then ,with a little bend in the lead to case.
Would have been a problem in a pistol.
Shoot a gun and ammo that you think your life is worth ?
I would use a 22lr if I had no other gun, but don't bet your life on sweaty wet ammo in rim fire.
 
I have no idea why you guys want to focus on the powder. They store smokeless powder under water during the manufacturing process to keep it from burning. All the powder you own, or have fired in the past, or will fire in the future has been exposed to water with no ill effects. Hint: its not the powder.

But just in case you're a hard head and need proof, I agree you do need to disassemble the cartridges that you say failed. I normally just rotate them 180 degrees and hit them again. Sometimes they do fire, other times not.

So you've already decided it was the powder that failed. Nothing like deciding how something took place and then looking for facts to maybe back up the decision. Sounds like a corporate world kind of thing.

A better approach would be to look and learn. Find yourself 2 pairs of pliers. You grip the case with one set and the bullet with the other, then bend the thing to one side. The bullet kind of smears out of the case. Put the bullet down. Now pour the powder someplace where you can look at it. Want more fun? Take a kitchen match and light it off. Yes, it flashes but there's so little of it there isn't much danger. Now look in the case. If you did this little exercise outdoors (where its smart), find the sun and use it for light. Look down in the case. Different manufacturers use different color priming compound. But what you should see is a yellow or green or even a pink substance down around the rim. If its not there, it just means you got a bad run of ammo. Sometimes you'll find it only around part of the rim. Again, a bad lot but at least the machinery tried to build a functional round. In my experience when I have a real dud, I find there's not even any primer in the rim. You could rotate it all the way around and you'll still not get a bang.

Another, back woods method is to just put the case on an anvil, put on your apron (the heavy leather one) and whack it really good with your 4# hammer. If you did that with the powder still in it, you may get a satisfying snap. Or not.

Now if the OPs theory about sweat infused powder was correct, and I doubt it, when you disassemble the case you should find ugly powder but a burned rim where the primer did go off. In my experience, often a primer will propel the bullet out far enough to tie up a cylinder and lodge in the barrel. I don't know if a rimfire cartridge will do that or not.

We all have theories, just like some unmentionable body parts. And they all stink. In the past 22 ammo was fairly well made. At least thats how I remember it. Some was better than others, some much better. Current production seems to yield duds in every bulk pack. Test that yourself if you want, but most folks who shoot bulk packs grumble about it and comment you get what you pay for. Have you ever bought an new gun and started using it for CCW when you've never bothered to test the gun and the ammo together? We call that "not very smart".

So if you value your life, or the lives of those you want to protect you probably should do some tests. Doesn't need to be scientific. Just step out the back door and fire a gun load or two (but probably not in the city.)
Match ammo or match grade ammo seems to deliver much more consistent ignition. That means it goes bang when it should. These days you don't have the luxury of buying boxes of 22s. If you can find even one store with any, you feel lucky. If you have some older stuff, do the test with it. I have a scatterbrained theory that the newer and much faster production equipment doesn't always deliver the priming charge. Or if it does, it doesn't "spin" it into the rim as it should. A little more time and effort is spent on match grade ammo. Maybe it would be smart to pack match grade ammo for self defense.

Most of us have learned to hate Remington ammo and particularly bulk. It used to be some of the best, but not anymore. I've never had what I consider bad luck with Federal ammo. Of any caliber, particularly shotgun shells. But their centerfire seems to be first rate. I've liked the bulk pack too. But I don't get upset over 3 or 5 misfires in a carton.

I think we have way too little information in this thread to draw conclusions.
 
"This ammo fires 100% of the time under "normal" conditions. It's not a gun problem. And I perform daily maintenance on this revolver to ensure that the steel in it does not rust."

If your daily maintenance includes cleaning and oiling the chambers I suspect is is oil contaminating the powder/primer not sweat. In my experience oil will creep in a very determined manner to find something to contaminate.
 
Yesterday I found my four "duds" and disassembled them. The powder charges had flakes of a yellow/green substance which I presume to be priming compound. The powder charges seemed to be dry, or at least they did not come out in wet clumps. I put the powder in a pile, threw a match to it and it all burned cleanly.

This morning I looked at my pulled cases. I looked inside and saw the yellow/green priming compound evenly distributed across the bottom instead of just the rims. Being left out overnight the were obviously dry. I put them in an old Remington 121 rifle and they all fired! They had varying degrees of "pop" but every one fired.

So what had happened to the priming compound? What caused it to migrate into the powder charge? Can the shock of running a couple hundred miles cause the priming compound to migrate throughout the powder charge? Maybe the sweat had nothing to do with it? Now I'm even more confused.

Dave Sinko
 
Did you compare to new in box round

Yesterday I found my four "duds" and disassembled them. The powder charges had flakes of a yellow/green substance which I presume to be priming compound. The powder charges seemed to be dry, or at least they did not come out in wet clumps. I put the powder in a pile, threw a match to it and it all burned cleanly.

This morning I looked at my pulled cases. I looked inside and saw the yellow/green priming compound evenly distributed across the bottom instead of just the rims. Being left out overnight the were obviously dry. I put them in an old Remington 121 rifle and they all fired! They had varying degrees of "pop" but every one fired.

So what had happened to the priming compound? What caused it to migrate into the powder charge? Can the shock of running a couple hundred miles cause the priming compound to migrate throughout the powder charge? Maybe the sweat had nothing to do with it? Now I'm even more confused.

Dave Sinko

Did you also open a brand new directly from the box round to compare?

Was the round you tested and the primer fired a round that failed to fire in the gun?

Not so easy to visual inspect the inside of the round and then reassemble it and do a live fire test with it.

If looking for some visual difference I would think you would want something like 5 of each - new in box rounds - rounds that failed to fire on first strike - and rounds that failed to fire after a second strike.

Also be careful when dealing with a failure to fire that you are not getting a delayed fire - or a round pushed into the barrel before the next shot.

Another thing you might check is immediately after a run - check to see if there is sweat inside the magazine on the rounds. You said only the rims had become tarnished - I am having a hard time picturing how only that portion of the rounds are getting exposed to sweat and reacting with the salt, which I guess is what you are thinking is happening.

Perhaps you could find a better holster or carry method while running or some sort of flap etc that covers the gun to keep it isolated better.

Have you taken any photos of the before and after rounds that you can post?

I wonder if anyone has subjected guns or ammo to a test that simulates the repeated shock of running.
 
I disassembled a perfectly good (and expensive) single round of Federal bulk 36 gr. copper plated HP. The powder looked just like Winchester 231. The priming compound really is evenly distributed evenly around the entire bottom of the case and not only the rim, so this is normal for this brand and type of cartridge. But there were no yellow/green flecks disbursed among the powder charge.

I'm going to throw some loaded rounds into the tumbler and tumble them for a while. I will then disassemble a few and shoot the rest and see what happens. I might even seal some case mouths with nail polish and subject them to a salt water test to see what happens. This is a lot of trouble for what many consider an anemic and useless defensive cartridge, but now I'm curious and I got know.

Dave Sinko
 
If you really and truly have a 50% rate of duds with Federal ammo from more than one lot number, you have a gun problem, not an ammo problem.

It's the same rate regardless of the gun. I've had this issue with a Marlin 60 (go figger), a Ruger 10/22, Ruger MKIII, and now the LCR 22. All the Rugers are unmodified, and leave a really healthy dent in the case rim. The LCR 22 probably has the most firing pin energy of any rimfire I've owned to date, judging by the depth of the case indentation. So no, it's not because of the guns. A second strike in a different location on the cases won't fire the Federals either. Winchester ammo has performed flawlessly in all the guns, but two different lots and types of Federal .22 ammo have serious issues with ignition. So, I buy Winchester ammo instead.
 
I have no idea, but I bet it is not the sweat. You didn't say whether your revolver is modified. Spring kit, perhaps? My guess is you have light primer hits, a big no-no with rimfire. You can check by firing some other rounds from the same batch that have not been exposed to sweat. Those that don't fire, attempt to fire them in another 22.
 
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