Did You Ever Act as Your Own Attorney?

finesse_r

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My general background included five years as a children’s protective service worker in Harris County (Houston, Texas) when I first graduated from college. Then over 20 years as a real estate appraiser, during most of which time I owned my own company. I spent a lot of time in court in both those positions.

I was called as an expert witness fairly often, on properties that I had appraised. So being in court was something I was comfortable with. Going to court is something many attorneys never get comfortable doing.

Both as a protective service worker and as an expert witness, I had to lead every single attorney that I worked with through the important issues to be covered in the questioning process and write out pertinent questions they needed to ask during the actual trial.

I was also the plaintiff in two civil cases. I lost the first one using a hired attorney. The second time I was much older and wiser and had by this time practically no respect for attorneys as a group. The second time I decided for many reasons to act as my own attorney.

The situation was that loggers (a father and his four sons had their own logging company) while cutting timber on a neighboring property had clear cut a few acres and several thousand dollars worth of prime timber off the back side of my property, and refused to reimburse me for it. Worse still, they cut down the best squirrel hunting area on this place right along the creek and in an undeclared wetlands area that I would have never logged myself. The area they clear cut also included the only section of mature White Oaks on the place, although I have planted hundreds of young White Oaks in other areas.

I tried talking to the neighboring land owner and to the owners of the timber company to no avail. For months and months all I could get was delays and general denials, with each of them blaming the loss on the other one. The case turned nasty, when the timber company threaded my life, and started telling me how easy it was for a house like mine to burn down in the middle of the night. There were no witnesses to the threats so the local sheriff could do nothing but talk to the loggers and let them know he was aware of the situation. The local DA refused to prosecute them as thieves, since he said he could not prove they cut my timber on purpose and since the loggers claimed the other land owner had told them this was his land.

There is no telling how many older retired people have been scared off by such threats by these men over the years. I have little doubt they were working a long and spotting some truly prime timber just over the line and they figured either I would not realize it was gone (this is a pretty big place) or they could get away with it even if I did spot their activity. Even though I am an old geezer myself, I am also an ex-marine, and a retired business owner, and I am not likely to take such intimidation as anything other than a bully with a big mouth. I particularly don't like bullies. It was finally crystal clear they were never going to be reasonable about the situation, so the game was afoot at that point.


My choices were:

1. Make a business decision, tuck my tail, and let these thieves get away with stealing my property and devastating one of my prime hunting areas knowing my attorney costs would far exceed any recovery awarded by the court, and would eat up untold hours in dealing with the problem.

2. Pay a hired gun attorney who would rob me even worse than the loggers had, and even if I won the suit, make a bad financial loss even worse, and quite probably botch the case.

3. Stand up and defend myself as my own attorney.

They left me no real recourse but to sue them. With my background and experience with attorneys and with the various courts and my knowledge of Texas real estate laws (I still have a pretty decent library of legal and real estate books) I decided I would act as my own attorney.

The case consumed much of my time for nearly three years. The most difficult part for me was all the legal papers that had to be filed with the court and getting them into the procedural format that the court would accept. I obtained several documents from similar cases and just used the same format and to some extent the same terminology that was typically used in similar cases. In other words I translated plain English into Legalize which was time consuming for a non-lawyer like myself.

I had to hire independent professional timber appraisers to appraise the value of the lost timber and had to have a second survey done showing precisely how much of my land had been clear cut by the loggers. The area in question was along almost half a mile stretch of land and they encroached anywhere from a few feet in some areas to 50 feet in other areas. Of course I photographed the area completely with pictures showing the property line and the lost timber. A good thing I did so immediately, as a year later the clear cut area was 6 foot high in cane and weeds and taking pictures would have been almost useless.

The neighboring land owner had a daughter that was an oil and gas attorney to handle his legal work for free so he was only out pocket for part of the final settlement. Of course she was trying to show off to Daddy and did nothing but stall and stall some more and did so in the most abrasive way possible.

The loggers used a hired attorney and I know they spent nearly three times what the original offer to settle was just on their attorney and ended up paying for their attorney plus a much larger settlement than I had originally offered them. I guess it was their version of Texas hold’em and they were all in very early on.

I filed the case with the district county court, not the small claims court. The court appearances at the various hearings and pleadings were pretty easy as the Judge went out of his way to insure I was given the same courtesy and standing as the two opposing attorneys, who did their best to talk over me and to ignore me. All I can say is good luck with trying that.

I think these two attorneys were originally thinking what luck to get an idiot country bumpkin defending himself, but it was far from their lucky day. I expect I knew more about Texas real estate law than either of the opposing attorneys, I just did not have their general law degree or their knowledge of this local court’s procedures, which should have given them a considerable advantage. However, my first hand knowledge of the facts of the case and my knowledge of Texas law gave me an advantage as well. Additionally this was my only case, while they were probably handling many other cases that were far more important to them than this one.

After untold delays, the defendants finally settled the day before we were finally due to go to trial. I have to admit to being a little ambivalent about settling it at that late date, as I had spent untold hours preparing for the trial and when I am fully prepared for an event I usually enjoy it. Still, I was paid what 90% of what I was asking for in the suit and more than I expected to get in court. A win is a win and I did have better ways to spend my next couple of days than playing at being a lawyer, so I jumped on it and put it all behind me.

I realize not everyone is able or willing to act as their own attorney, but if you can then I suggest you do so.

Another option might be to hire an attorney as a consultant to help you with any of the things you don’t understand and to be available to ask for advice, and still do 95% of the case yourself. I sat through and watched a divorce case one time where a man did just that and he absolutely destroyed the attorney on the other side. The guy was very bright but had zero legal training or experience. I knew both the defendant and the plaintiff in the case and was familiar with the details so I had a good understanding of what was taking place.

Also as his own attorney, he was privy to all the attorney judge conferences where the other person was not. There are some advantages to acting as your own attorney, if you can make yourself think in legalize and learn the basic courtroom procedures.

The old saying that "the man that defends himself has a fool for a client," may be true in some cases, but it is not necessarily true in all cases. The attorney costs for my timber suit would have been two or three times the final settlement I collected. While many expenses are recoverable if you win, attorney fees are not a recoverable expense even if you win the case.

Additionally an attorney could have drawn the case out for even longer, as most attorneys are not worth spit. Sadly, the worse they are, the less efficient they are, and the slower they are, the more hours they can bill you at ($250 per hour and up in this area). It is in their monetary interests to keep such cases going forever if possible.

My very best advice is to never go to court if you can in any reasonable way avoid doing so. Attorneys are shysters and/or incompetents for the most part, and juries are at best unpredictable. Corruption is not something that just takes place in third world courts either.
 
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Well said! As a side note, one of my daughter's is an attorney, and she has voiced what you have in your last paragraph too many times.
 
I'm glad you were able....

I'm glad you were able to clear up your problems by yourself. I've had good experiences with attorneys with one terrible exception that took many years to resolve. I realize that I would be terrible as my own attorney and would probably do myself more harm than good.
 
I recently went into a courtroom without an attorney.

I was under oath, the opposing attorney of course wasn't. He made me out to be the bad guy. He tried to goad me into losing my cool with name calling and innuendo.

I didn't lose my cool, but I didn't know the proper way to combat the *** either.

I ain't qualified to battle a professional "Bender Of The Truth."

While I will continue repeating many of my mistakes over and over, I won't make "this" mistake again.
 
Did You Ever Act as Your Own Attorney?
No, and I've never performed eye surgery on myself either.

The fact that Nidal Hasan is representing himself is all I need to know regarding the wisdom of that choice...
 
Just on a disputed traffic ticket many years ago. I was new in the los angeles area (san fernando valley). I had just got off work at midnight on my new job and stopped in a bar I had never been in and had one glass of beer. On leaving the bar I seen a patrol car I knew had seen me pull out from the bar. We were faceing each other at the light and we both made left turns, he west, me east. About two miles later I seen some headlights turn on behind me and then the reds. He had followed me late at night with no lights for two miles hopeing I would make a mistake. He had me walk the line etc but couldnt find anything wrong with me. What PO`ed me was he litteraly scratched his head and then said, "I am writing you for cutting that corner back there!" I knew I cut no corner but knew I wasnt going to argue about it either. I went back to look where he discribed said corner and there was no way you could cut it without going over a high median with a traffic light on it. He thought I would be so thankful for not getting a DUI I would be happy to not challange a bogus ticket! I took pictures of the intersection and went to court. I really think it was a young marcia clark who was trying to talk me into traffic school just before my case was called. I told her BS! I aint playing that game, I am innocent. Also I had noticed my ticket said I had a blue truck and mine was snow white and I also had a picture of it. I got to question the cop. I started to ask him if he was color blind, and he started to give me the garbage about he couldnt be a cop (my hero) if he was color blind. The judge cut me short and snorted, that makes no differance. Then all the sudden the judge said wait! He then asked the baliff to bring him such and such law book. The baliff brought the book and the judge exploded that what he wrote me up for wasnt even the code numbers he had wrote on the ticket! Evidently the young hot shot had just pulled some bogus numbers he had pulled out of his butt just sure I wouldnt argue the case! The judge dismissed me and told the cop "You see me in my chambers!"
I enjoyed that!
 
We did it once but it was for only $3500 which would cost more for a attorney then what we would get. Client, defendant was an attorney. Around here at the time the judges didn't like them. Went to arbitration and, arbitrator almost laughed us out of the court house. Told us to come back when we had a attorney. Filed appear and went to real court. Sat down and judge gave the little lady a wink. They went through their spiel and we went trough ours theirs sound fairly good but ours better I guess. Judge ruled for us. Paid for half our new HVAC at the time.

Got another case now but won't defend our self. It's a wrongful termination against the little lady. They lied, she has documentation but under the termination speech they gave they over exaggerated to the point of almost lying. They gave her no chance to defend herself to point out their falsification's. This is a atwill company and they are not required by law to give a copy of their termination statements. I guess they don't want anyone to be able to prove they were lying. Guess we'll find out Tuesday go see the attorney then. SO ANYONE working for a atwill co can be fired for no reason, they tell you why and you , even if totally false you have no recourse but to sue.
 
My two cents

Howdy,
All I can say is, the fact that you may be right does not keep you from getting the shaft in court.
After a little extra thought I have to add, with or without a lawyer.
I do choose not to take the chance and show up without one ever again.
If you need one take the time to find a good one.
Thanks
Mike
 
I am an attorney, and I will not go to court without one, if I am a party - even if I have to take some young guy along who doesn't know what he's doing. If anybody is going to lie to the judge, it's not going to be me.;)
 
I am a Private Investigator, and a few years ago I worked a criminal defense case for guy accused of attempted murder of his Wife. The state was paying for my services, and I met with him in the small county jail several times where he was being held. He was in his 20s, and had a court-appointed attorney there at the meeting. He told me the attorney was only there for him to consult with, and he was going to represent himself in court. Both the attorney, who was a pretty good guy, and I tried to talk him out of representing himself. Heck, the state was paying for his defense, why not use it?:eek: He was adament. I testified at his trial about the investigations I had performed. He questioned me very haltingly, and not very well. The prosecutor, to my surprise, did not even cross-examine me.
I left court thinkin' this guy just set himself up for a 50 year prison term. Surprise, surprise, the jury found him not guilty. I couldn't believe it.

Oh, before you start thinkin' this guy is Mensa material, let me finish the story. After he was arrested, he somehow made bail. While he was out, he tried to buy a Glock, to "just use once".:eek: (Gee, I wonder what he was gonna use it for? Hmmmmm). He was obviously barred from possessing a gun. Mensa Man tried to buy it from an undercover cop.:eek:

He is presently serving about 20 years.
As my late Father used to say...
"Some people don't have the brains God gave a goose".:rolleyes:
Jim
 
I can't see myself walking out of my apartment without a gun, or walking into court without an attorney.

I consider myself a reasonably intelligent, well-informed man but I recognize and respect my limits.
 
Once upon a time I was shooting rats and bloated cans of Campbell's soup outside of New Orleans, LA. A LA. G&F officer cited me for shooting inside the city limits. I was not aware that I was inside the city limits. He did a lot of cussing... searched my car... took my rifle and pistol and gave me no receipt, etc. He told me to expect a big fine when I went to court.

On the appointed day I showed up with $200 which at that time was a lot of money. I figured that would cover any possible fine. When asked by the judge, the officer described the incident like I was public enemy No. 1, a real menace to society. The judge asked my for my side. I simply told her I'd been shooting rats and swollen cans of Campbell's soup. I told her about the cussing and the tennis balls getting cut open, etc. She charged me $5 and told me to get my guns out of the pile on the floor. I found my revolver and rifle, both of which were still loaded, the rifle still cocked. She told me not to ever again have to make an appearance in her court. When I left she was having a very intense talk with the officer. I took the remaining $195 and gave it to my wife. Cool.
 
I'm the local Small Claims Judge in this area and have a docket weekly. I've been practicing law 21 years and have been Judge 18 of them. It drives me crazy some times seeing people present their cases. Some assume I know all about their case, though I'm handed the file just before entering the courtroom, and their Petition or Defense is a small handwritten paragraph. Others simply assume I'm going to help them in the course of trial, which I cannot do. I won't even discuss those who watched TV and think they can object for any reason whatsoever.

Numerous cases I hear would have had different outcomes if more information was presented or proper objection made to some issue. Venue in small claims here in KS is somewhat different than normal court proceedings. Much of what I end up hearing could be dismissed if people would simply go talk to a competent attorney for a few minutes.

The OP has had his experiences. I've had mine. I would never act as my own counsel. Most civil suits tend to be because of something that rubbed one party the wrong way. Better to have someone thinking clearly and dispassionately to properly evaluate your position and the strength or weakness of your case. Just my opinion and no, you won't get a bill!
 
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