Stupid Engineering: Servicing the Product

[Steely Dan]

Before I start, my background with my company is 26 years so far.
12 years building the product.
Then promoted to design where i designed, built, trained for 10 years.
Now, I manage the Bill of Materials division

Ok, so I changed the oil on my new Husqvarna 24 hp (Kohler engine) mower today.
You are supposed to change the oil after the first 8 hours with fresh oil and filter, then every season.

The oil filter is on the left side. You have to remove a plastic cover to access the filter.
First complaint: there are 2 tabs and a plastic fastener. You know that plastic fastener may last 3 or 4 times, then it breaks.
Why not just use 4 tabs that slide in?

Second complaint: so you have removed the cover to access the filter. Shouldn't you be able to access the drain as well? Well no dummy, you have to go to the other side and remove the other panel. And to make it even more of a pain in the butt, the starter is sitting right on top of the drain, making it hard to get to.
Yes, it as a quick release for easy draining but why not put this by the oil filter and also extend it out so it can easily drain into the oil pan?
Note: on mine, they didn't even tighten the drain plug good. I tightened it as tight as I could with my fingers but I can't get in there to tighten it. I got it as tight as I could. Without removing the starter, I don't know how to get it really tight.

Third complaint: ok so I've drained it, pre soaked and installed a filter and now I'm ready to pour in my full synthetic Castrol GTX.
Hmmm, the manual states 1.7 to 1.9 quarts.
I've got an idea, why don't you design it to take a full 2 quarts? Then the owner doesn't have to sit there pouring and checking, pouring and checking.

Anyway........it's ready to roll. Just very aggravating. I just don't understand why you can't think about what a customer needs and get out of your "engineering mode" and put yourself in the end users position.

SD

 

[jaykellogg]

I guess if they had to do it themselves they might do it differently. OTOH, cost is an issue. I knew the man responsible for designing the Remington 700 (He led the team). He redesigned the trigger so it didn't have that famous "problem". The new design cost an extra 4½¢. Management overruled him. He told them they would be sorry. I wonder....

 

[shouldazagged]

I've posted this before, but here it is again:

The optimist says the glass is half full.

The pessimist says the glass is half empty.

The engineer says the glass is twice as big as it needs to be.

 

[Mcwsky09]

I have worked on many different makes and models of automobiles, brake jobs being the most common and there are very clear an obvious differences in design that affect the difficulty and time required to perform maintenance. Front brakes on a Mercedes about half an hour, same job on a Ford Tempo (without replacing all the hoses and lines) about 2 hours, despite the overall design being effectively the same. Subtl differences such as the placement of the hose relative to the bolts holding the caliper onto the hub. Mercedes has hose between the bolts so socket or even power tool can be used without breaking (and rickig damage requiring replacement of the hose) while the Tempo had the hose directly above one of the bolts makin it difficult to get a tool onto the bolt at all and with such little clearance that even when fully unscrewed the bolt could not be extracted form the hole making it difficult not remove the caliper. Also didn't help in thy case that the replacement rotors had a central hub that was too wide for everything to be reassembled correctly.

 

[BaldEagle1313]

You don't even want to know the procedure for replacing the heater core in your car. I don't think it even matters what year, make, or model. It'll be a PITA.

My Maxima you had to remove the dashboard, the center console, and the passenger seat. I think the passenger seat was so you could get your body in position under the dash, but that's what the book said. Book labor for it was 11 hours. At (then) $70 an hour. Throw in the $200+ part and tax and the whole thing was over a grand.

Everything is being packaged smaller and smaller. The days of dropping a wrench in the engine compartment and having it hit the ground under the car are long, long gone.

 

[Hillbilly77]

You're looking at it all wrong.
You see, it's this way:

Oil capacity: 1.9 quarts.
Change interval: 1 year.

Every year, you end up with 0.1 qt of unused oil.
Save all of those 1/10ths of a quart off to the side, and after just 19 short years, the engineers have just given you a FREE oil change. You owe them a debt of gratitude for their forward thinking.

And you have the gall to come on here and write nasty things about them. Tsk.

 

[steveno]

the heater core started leaking on my 2004 Colorado truck. you have to take most of the dash out to replace it. that was $1,000

 

[jaykellogg]

If you are in good health, taking out a dash isn't all that big a job. I have done it on a couple of different vehicles. The biggest pain is in knowing where all the bolts are. When I was selling used cars I got several in that had the heater bypassed. Apparently a lot of folks don't want to deal with it.

On some Ford pickups they remove the cab to get to the engine.

 

[dswancutt]

That is right up there with new push mowers not having a drain plug to change the oil. I have a MTD Yard-Man with the Honda motor, which has been reliable as all get out but no drain plug. They expect you to tip the mower over which is a royal PITA. This year when it was oil change time I remembered I have one of those cheap fluid suction tools (basically and hand soap dispenser with hose on each end). It worked a whole lot better and was much easier.

 

[BaldEagle1313]

On some Ford pickups they remove the cab to get to the engine.

A friend of mine works at a place that specializes in diesel repairs, 98% trucks. His facebook page is filled with pictures of that. The labor spent taking the cab off is offset by the ease of access and speed at which the rest of the work can be done.

 

[Steely Dan]

My wife's grandmother needed a new battery in her Buick.

It ain't in the engine bay, that would be stupidly simplistic.

No, it's under the BACK SEAT!!!

 

[Old TexMex]

MAN Diesel: marine application, 1200hp V12. Beautiful German engineering, right? Cartridge type oil filters! The cannister mounted upside down, and right flush with the engine block. You WILL dump a quart of burned oil each change, unless you remote mount spin on filters. No problem, only costs about $3500 each engine. Ach du lieber...

 

[Old TexMex]

And another thing!( while I'm ranting about marine engine systems) Volvo IPS are a beautiful thing, fantastic handling, super effecient, much better than the shaft/ strut/prop and rudder system... Except to change the gear oil, (every 1000 hrs.)the vessel must be hauled! That's some real hassle with a 70 footer.

 

[mjdupuis]

Had a 2003 Mazda 6. Did what I could on it, but it was a pain. You couldn't get to half the spark plugs without a major undertaking. I recently sold it and bought a Honda crv. Easiest vehicle I have ever worked on. Spark plugs front and center, mostly easy to locate and remove stuff. It just makes life easier when someone takes the time to do something with the end user in mind.

 

[dswancutt]

My wife's grandmother needed a new battery in her Buick.

It ain't in the engine bay, that would be stupidly simplistic.

No, it's under the BACK SEAT!!!

Actually, it kinda makes sense if you think about it. It is cooler under the seat than in the engine compartment which extends battery life and where would you put in in the engine compartment on a modern vehicle where it could be easily accessed?

My mom's 2001 Aurora has the battery under the back seat.

 

[jaykellogg]

MAN Diesel: marine application, 1200hp V12. Beautiful German engineering, right? Cartridge type oil filters! The cannister mounted upside down, and right flush with the engine block. You WILL dump a quart of burned oil each change, unless you remote mount spin on filters. No problem, only costs about $3500 each engine. Ach du lieber...

I suppose you could poke a hole in the end of the filter and use one of those oil suction thingies to suck most of the oil out.

 

[dswancutt]

The worst car I ever owned to service was a 1981 Ford Escort. Oil filter was on the backside of the motor against the firewall and I think under the exhaust manifold. What a Charlie Foxtrot.
The Nissan Sentra and Toyota Corolla base Chevy Nova that followed it had the oil filter in front. Easy peasy to change.

 

[gdnagle]

the heater core started leaking on my 2004 Colorado truck. you have to take most of the dash out to replace it. that was $1,000

And I thought changing the heater core on my 1993 Ford Ranger was tough. Two screws on a cover inside the truck passenger side, two hose clamps out in the engine compartment and took me 10 minuets $15.00.

I found out it seems to be a rule of thumb that if the part is cheap to buy you will have problems installing it, at least the parts I've replaced In my years of backyard mechanics.

 

[Steely Dan]

Actually, it kinda makes sense if you think about it. It is cooler under the seat than in the engine compartment which extends battery life and where would you put in in the engine compartment on a modern vehicle where it could be easily accessed?

My mom's 2001 Aurora has the battery under the back seat.

What if I had to jump it off?

If understood her correctly, the dealer had to take the back seat out!?!?

If you want to relocate, how bout the trunk?

Then if you need to boost off, the "good" car only has to pull up behind you. Makes sense if your on the side of the road.

 

[Steely Dan]

The worst car I ever owned to service was a 1981 Ford Escort. Oil filter was on the backside of the motor against the firewall and I think under the exhaust manifold. What a Charlie Foxtrot.
The Nissan Sentra and Toyota Corolla base Chevy Nova that followed it had the oil filter in front. Easy peasy to change.

I had a 1998 Bravada.

The oil filter was relocated under a trap door. The first time I changed the oil I liked to have never found it! (It was used and I had no owners manual).

It's like "we'll men, the Bravada is finished!"

"Uh sir, what about this?" (Holding up a Delco oil filter )