Stupid Engineering: Servicing the Product

[H Richard]

I recall a 1961 Studebaker Hawk I owned (great car) but the heater fan could not be accessed at all ,but in the firewall was a outline of "where to cut to gain access to the heater fan", then there was a special part, an correct sized panel to put in over where you had to cut the firewall out.

 

[Rastoff]

A lot of things are engineered to fit the aesthetic rather than the practical.

My first response is buy a John Deer and you don't have those problems. At least I don't with mine. Sorry, couldn't stop myself.

As you know, having been in the design process, many different groups have to work together. Often they don't sit in the same room. More often, the CEO sees a drawing he likes and tells the engineers to "make it fit". Here's a good representation of how it might go if some had their own way...

 

[shouldazagged]

That's very nice, Rastoff! And I'm sure it's too true to be entirely funny.

 

[Road Rat]

You don't even want to know the procedure for replacing the heater core in your car. I don't think it even matters what year, make, or model. It'll be a PITA.

My Maxima you had to remove the dashboard, the center console, and the passenger seat. I think the passenger seat was so you could get your body in position under the dash, but that's what the book said. Book labor for it was 11 hours. At (then) $70 an hour. Throw in the $200+ part and tax and the whole thing was over a grand.

Everything is being packaged smaller and smaller. The days of dropping a wrench in the engine compartment and having it hit the ground under the car are long, long gone.

Only ONE exception to your statement:

1969 Ford LTD...........to remove the heater core you raised the hood, removed the two heater hoses, removed 4 bolts holding the top of the cover on, remove old core!!!!!!!
I LOVED IT.............they never did it again!!!

 

[dswancutt]

What if I had to jump it off?

If understood her correctly, the dealer had to take the back seat out!?!?

If you want to relocate, how bout the trunk?

Then if you need to boost off, the "good" car only has to pull up behind you. Makes sense if your on the side of the road.

There is a + post off the underhood fuse box and you ground it to the engine if you have to jump the car, so it is just like a normal car.

 

[dswancutt]

All of the above is why I drive this:



Easy to work on for most things, except #1 plug is hard to get due the A/C compressor.



This one is even easier, Straight 6, no A/C

 

[BaldEagle1313]

Rastoff, I think the powerplant group actually built theirs. That thing looks an awful lot like those GeeBee racers from the Thirties.

 

[YogiBear]

Aloha,

I have an '06 Chevy TrailBlazer SS.

It has the LS2 Corvette engine in it.

To change ONE of the spark plug on the passenger side,

The right front tire Must be removed, a panel on the fender well removed and then you can get to that One plug.

Good thing the plugs are Supposed to be good for a Long time. I only have 44K miles on the car.

I'm Paying the local mechanic to do that job.

 

[steamloco76]

2000-2008 Ford Focus with the DOHC 2.0L 4 cylinder. Timing belt replacement requires removal of the right front fender and inner fender.

1992-1995 Pontiac Bonneville 3800 V-6. Serpentine belt is routed THROUGH the bottom right side motor mount. To change the belt you had to slightly lift and support the engine, remove the bottom alternator mount bolt, then the rest of the bolts for the motor mount, plus a few other things. No way to do this service roadside. Stupid. the 87- to 91 and 96 and up versions do not use this idiotic set-up.

 

[Marshwheeling]

Actually, it kinda makes sense if you think about it. It is cooler under the seat than in the engine compartment which extends battery life and where would you put in in the engine compartment on a modern vehicle where it could be easily accessed?

My mom's 2001 Aurora has the battery under the back seat.

My 1957 MGA had the batterie(s) under the back seat.
My 1987 BMW has the battery in the trunk.

 

[Steely Dan]

All of the above is why I drive this:



Easy to work on for most things, except #1 plug is hard to get due the A/C compressor.



This one is even easier, Straight 6, no A/C

You open the hood on one of the classics........it's all there in full view.

Now on the new ones, all you see is a cramped up space covered in a huge piece of plastic.

Nice trucks. I love the green one. Classic.

 

[Hack]

2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee 5.7L has the battery under the front passenger seat. It can be jumped from under the hood.

2009 Saturn Sky has the battery behind the passenger front fender. Requires removal of fender to R&R. There's just enough room to get a set of cables on it for trickle charging or jumjping.

Worse 'simple job' I've ever done? Replacing a water pump on my 1987 Mercury Grand Marquis 5.0L Gotta take off a bunch of good stuff to get to the bad part.

 

[jaykellogg]

Many Chevies from the '30's and '40's had a core plug (freeze plug) on the rear of the block, an inch or two from the firewall. When this started leaking it was common to cut out the firewall to access it and patch the firewall.

I had an '88 Mercury Sable with the 3.8 V6. That had an external oil pump. It started dripping a teaspoon of oil when i pulled into the garage. To fix it I had to remove the R front motor mount, disconnect the AC compressor and there were six tiny screws that held the oil pump cover on. These went "up" into the oil pump which was integral with the front cover. The holes were thru drilled and salt water had gone down and corroded the aluminum cover and steel screws. It was hair raising to remove them w/o breaking one off. That would have required me to remove the front cover of the engine. It took me 8 hours to fix it and the gasket was less than $4.00.

I had a professional Ford tech tell me he usually broke off one or more of those bolts.

 

[WuzzFuzz]

The trouble with all these new fangled machines is they are made of plastic, to make them pretty, but impossible to work on.

So,the solution is, why run around with something new? Sort of like having a good wife....

When it comes to changing oil, my only complaint is when I change my own oil in my Olds, it still has the cartridge filter, which is horizontal to the engine. So when the oil filter housing is removed to take out the cartridge residue oil is going to come out. At a filling station in the old days, and I guess these new quick change places still use them, when the car is up on the rack, then the catch can/bucket can be brought up into place, and catch that oil. So I just use one of the old farm feeding pans. Slide it under, and WA-LA....

As far as anything else, It's all right up to where a person can get to it...I still do my own tune ups with feeler gauges, a timing light and a dwell meter...Works for me....

Considering it's 61 years young now. Even with a V8 engine and a 4 bbl, I can still get about 18.3 MPG going down the interstate at 70 with it.

Only trouble with it is, when it comes time to license it, the front half has to be licensed in one state, and the back half in another. Too big to fit all in one state.

Oh, I might add too, all of my wrenches are S.A.E., no metrics!!!!!

.




WuzzFuzz

 

[gdauth]

Actually, it kinda makes sense if you think about it. It is cooler under the seat than in the engine compartment which extends battery life and where would you put in in the engine compartment on a modern vehicle where it could be easily accessed?

My mom's 2001 Aurora has the battery under the back seat.

Another reason for the battery being in the back is weight distribution. Some Mazda Miatas had the battery in the trunk in a attempt to achieve 50-50 weight distribution. Those suckers corner like they are on rails.

 

[Straightshooter2]

I've always heard that engineers design something, then give it to a technician to make it work. Apparently your mower went straight from the design board to production and bypassed that step. Anybody remember the (I think) '66 Buick Riviera? The taillights were in the rear bumper and you had to pull the bumper just to change a taillight bulb.

CW

 

[steamloco76]

Three more pieces of GM engineering "excellence".

Series 1 3.8: V6 for FWD cars 1986-88. The starter is under the front bank exhaust manifold requiring the removal of the front exhaust pipes from both sides and the manifold on the front. More often than not, manifold studs would snap-off in the aluminum head requiring a drill-out and tap in Heli-Coil replacement threads.

The Chevy Lumina and Pontiac Grand Prix Z-34's with the DOHC 3.4L twin cam V6. There was no room on top the engine for the alternator. GM mounted it under the engine against the firewall and used a plastic duct to rout cooling air to it. When the bearings failed at 50-60K as all GM alternators did in those days, you had to pull the engine to change the alternator. Brilliant, just flipping brilliant.

Finally, the Mercruiser supplied Northstar V8 engines in 1990's Cadillac cars. Where did they mount the starter? Under the intake manifold! When the constant heat finally cooked the Bendix and solenoid on the starter the mechanic had to pull everything off the front and top of the engine, then pull the intake to change the starter. GM ate thousands of those repairs under warranty as the starters were too small and tended to die within a couple years.

 

[timn8er]

Wuzzfuzz, she's a beauty!

 

[41RF]

The old Alfa-Romeo Giuliettas had the battery in the trunk for better weight distribution. I was able to put a huge battery in mine because the electrics were by Lucas (god of darkness) and the starting system was marginal to say the least. My brother had a Sunbeam Tiger (Alpine with a Ford V-8 shoehorned into it). One plug on the rear, passenger side, was inaccessable, but the maker had thoughtfully provided a neat little hatch by the passenger's feet for changing that plug. Now to the present: My friend has a 2011 Prius. Changing oil and filter is ok, but filter and plug are under the car behind a plastic door held closed by three different sizes of plastic nails. The dealer had been doing the changes and only one loose-fitting plastic nail was left, so the door was hanging down like an air scoop...arrgh. How much would a little latch on that door have cost Toyota?

 

[WuzzFuzz]

Wuzzfuzz, she's a beauty!

That's a 52 Olds 98.



Another ole boat...1958 Buick Limited....Better known as the "Queen of Chrome"...It had more chrome on it than a 58 Caddy at the time. It was a good one, but I guess I'm from the old school when it comes to some cars. When the ashtray got filled, then it was time to trade!!!! But it was one I could still work on.



I had my 32 coupe up till just a few years ago...But with the channel job, and a roll cage on the inside, it just got too hard for me to get in and out of it anymore, so I had to send it down the road. But I could work on it and change or fix what ever needed to be done.



Like the beginning of this post said, it's got to the point where the average person can't do much on them any more except put gas in them. Maybe put some air in the tires.

Old guns, old cars, and a good cigar. What more could a old codger like me want????


WuzzFuzz