General reloading info for 38/357
- Thread starter 158Grain
- Start date
Do most of you use a bullet with a cannelure or go by OAL to determine seating depth? As mentioned above I was originally thinking a 158 gr. LSWC. I have found that most available have a cannelure. Since I haven't purchased anything at all to get started I am open to other recommendations. I already have a good set of calipers and will check every round for length regardless.
venomballistics
Member
what fun would that be
Think like gears in a transmission
first gear ... bullseye
Second gear .. 231
third gear ... unique
forth gear ... 2400
over drive ... H110 or 300MP
fasten ye 5 point harness and don't forget to shift
venomballistics
Member
The cannelure largely dictates the OAL
Now ... when you say LSWC ... do you mean cast or swaged like the Hornady and Speer offerings?
You can get away with a good bit more with cast
what fun would that be
Think like gears in a transmission
first gear ... bullseye
Second gear .. 231
third gear ... unique
forth gear ... 2400
over drive ... H110 or 300MP
fasten ye 5 point harness and don't forget to shift
Dumb question here, but are talking Aliant Bullseye, Winchester 231, and Aliant Unique smokeless powder...? I'm trying to keep them all straight and have started my "notes" today. I'm using Midway's site for reference.
I honestly don't know what the difference is. Is there an advantage of one over the other? I'm ultimately looking for a readily available bullet. I have seen some bullets that say they are machined LSWC. I'm assuming you would have more control over the load with a more consistent bullet.
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venomballistics
Member
Most of my reloading migrated to Alliant powders with a few others filling in the gaps.
experimentation is virtually unavoidable and your tranny will ultimately be set up differently from mine.
I only offer it as a baseline you can start from
check data ... you may find something similar to any in the list that you prefer
venomballistics
Member
you also admit to looking at Midway.
Therein you will find stuff from hunters supply, Oregon trail and lazercast.
cast is a harder bullet, with grooves full of lube. Both of which saves frustration with leading issues as you decide to push them.
A good cast 158 SWC can cover a lot of territory from light target loads right on up to full magnum thunder.
Soft, lightly lubed swaged lead is kinda a one trick pony for target loads only
Cartridge performance is a combination of factors, among them the amount of powder and the volume of the case. Put a specific charge of powder in a larger case and pressure should go down...but there are no guarantees. Strange things can happen inside the case.
The reloading data tables have a minimum charge for a reason. Stick with them.
OK, I guess I need to put in my 2 cents worth, which is exactly worth what you paid for it. I have been reloading for only about a year so I still have much to learn. I would first buy a reloading manual, read it, read it, that can't be stressed too much, and start with the minimum and work your way up to the load you like. I didn't see the barrel length you were loading for perhaps I missed it. I use 7.1 grains of unique under a 158 grain Hornady hollow point in a model 19-5 that has a 2 1/2 inch barrel. This is not the maximum load out of my Speer manual but it is comfortable for me to shoot out of a snubnose 19. Take your time and please don't be the guy who has to load the hottest loads there is a reason that some things are marked as maximum. Just me thoughts.
Westy39
Westy39
JohnK
US Veteran
I like Venom's comments.
Learn burning rates, select a few powders, and go with them.
For fifty years, I chose Bullseye (light/target), Unique (medium velocity), and 2400 for the Mag handguns.
Rifle, IMR 4227, 4895, and IMR 4350(or 4831) will take car of almost all rifle calibers.
There are, of course, other powders, in the same burn rate, for the same use.
Read the snot, out of SEVERAL loading manuals, LEARN.............
Learn burning rates, select a few powders, and go with them.
For fifty years, I chose Bullseye (light/target), Unique (medium velocity), and 2400 for the Mag handguns.
Rifle, IMR 4227, 4895, and IMR 4350(or 4831) will take car of almost all rifle calibers.
There are, of course, other powders, in the same burn rate, for the same use.
Read the snot, out of SEVERAL loading manuals, LEARN.............
GypsmJim
Member
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I have an old Lee press that served me well. When a small part broke right in the middle of a marathon loading session, I drove down the street to Gander Mountain and bought a Hornady LNL. I figured having 2 presses wouldn't hurt. The next week I sent away for the $2 part and repaired the Lee.
Boy, how I hate that LNL bushing. At times it comes loose. Now, if you load only 1 bullet type in each caliber, there might be some advantage. But if you do more than 1 thing you have to readjust it anyways. And, if you load more than 1 caliber the extra expense is almost as much as a set of dies.
I ended up drilling the bushing, pinning it to the press and JB welding it in place.
Just my opinion.
Same analogy
The same analogy works
Accurate powders:
First gear: #2
2nd gear #5
3rd gear #7
4th gear #9
Overdrive 4100
The same analogy works
Accurate powders:
First gear: #2
2nd gear #5
3rd gear #7
4th gear #9
Overdrive 4100
forestswin
Member
158
I use a Hornady LnL Classic single stage press and load for a S&W 686 6 inch
However, I don't shoot steel, I shoot paper. I've had the LnL for over a year and it has worked flawlessly.
From what I've read, a 1-1/2" group at 25 yards, from a rest is a reasonable goal for the 686.
From there you can work out to 50 yards - but its tough enough at 25 yards. And you may find it helpful to start testing your loads at 10 yards.
You'll know when you find "the load" when get good groupings (touching holes are very rewarding). (you might have to shoot some paper to record and measure your groups) Also, you'll probably be looking for different good loads with different bullets and at different velocities, such as light loads with very little recoil - or some nice fast hard hitting 357 loads.
I need to say, I only shoot lead, and I only use 357 cases for my reloads so you'll have to get info from others for 38 special loads or for FMJ and plated bullets.
As for the 357, I've had very good success with Unique with the softer lead bullets and I hear 231 is also very good for 357. But in my opinion, 2400 is [THE 357 POWDER] and I'm also pretty sure, the 158 grain bullet is the standard 357 bullet, by design.
As Ozo suggests (post #16), I use a Redding 10x Competition powder measure. It's designed for throwing accurate/precise charges in weights generally used in handguns. From my personal experience, it dispenses Bullseye, 231, WST, Unique, and 2400 within 0.10 grains. Also - get the auto primer add-on for the Classic - works great once its set-up correctly.
This past year, I've done quite a bit of testing for the 686 - check out some of my threads. I've tried to put information on those threads that I had been searching for and there is quite a bit of good advice given by those who know what they are talking about here on the forum.
Hope that helps
I use a Hornady LnL Classic single stage press and load for a S&W 686 6 inch
However, I don't shoot steel, I shoot paper. I've had the LnL for over a year and it has worked flawlessly.
From what I've read, a 1-1/2" group at 25 yards, from a rest is a reasonable goal for the 686.
From there you can work out to 50 yards - but its tough enough at 25 yards. And you may find it helpful to start testing your loads at 10 yards.
You'll know when you find "the load" when get good groupings (touching holes are very rewarding). (you might have to shoot some paper to record and measure your groups) Also, you'll probably be looking for different good loads with different bullets and at different velocities, such as light loads with very little recoil - or some nice fast hard hitting 357 loads.
I need to say, I only shoot lead, and I only use 357 cases for my reloads so you'll have to get info from others for 38 special loads or for FMJ and plated bullets.
As for the 357, I've had very good success with Unique with the softer lead bullets and I hear 231 is also very good for 357. But in my opinion, 2400 is [THE 357 POWDER] and I'm also pretty sure, the 158 grain bullet is the standard 357 bullet, by design.
As Ozo suggests (post #16), I use a Redding 10x Competition powder measure. It's designed for throwing accurate/precise charges in weights generally used in handguns. From my personal experience, it dispenses Bullseye, 231, WST, Unique, and 2400 within 0.10 grains. Also - get the auto primer add-on for the Classic - works great once its set-up correctly.
This past year, I've done quite a bit of testing for the 686 - check out some of my threads. I've tried to put information on those threads that I had been searching for and there is quite a bit of good advice given by those who know what they are talking about here on the forum.
Hope that helps
SgtLumpy
Member
Especially when first beginning to handload, the MOST CRITICAL step you're going to do in the entire process is get the RIGHT amount of powder into the case. An improperly seated primer will show up when you put the rounds into a box or when you load it into your pistol. A too deep or too proud bullet may change the pressure a bit. But no error or normal deviation is as potentially dangerous, even lethal, as getting too little or too much powder in the case.
So whatever method you use to fill the cases may determine part of your powder choice. No matter what the method, you want to be able to physically SEE into the case after charging with powder. You want to be able to judge "is this the same level of powder I've seen on the other couple hundred rounds I've loaded with this powder load?".
If you use some kind of powder drop device that depends on volume, then you want some kind of powder that flows really well. On the extreme opposite end of the spectrum, if you were to weigh out every single load, then pour that into the case with that little "gold miner's pan" then powder flow is not as much of a factor.
Powders are either BALL, FLAKE, or STICK. That defines the physical shape that the stuff is in. Balls look like tiny balls. Flakes look like tiny corn flakes. Stick looks like tiny pieces of cut spaghetti. Things shaped like balls flow through tubes and funnels and openings better than things shaped like spaghetti. Flake is typically somewhere in the middle.
So for me, I would choose a BALL powder that is well regarded as working well for your intended caliber and bullet style. Read enough online comments in various forums and you'll find more than one usually that fits that bill. HP-38 and W231 will pop up a lot. They are the same powder. Tiny ball shape. Well tested in medium and +P 38 loads. They might be in 357 as well, but I don't load magnums so I simply don't know. That powder is only one example of a proven, popular .38 powder. There are lots of others.
I think it's important to have a powder that has a lot of VOLUME for the weight you're loading. ie, if the load you're running takes up 0.37cc in the case, there's a lot of "dead air" in that case. If some other proven powder took up 0.57cc in the case, there would be less "dead air". That might not make a difference in pressure or accuracy (sometimes it does) but it WILL make a difference in your ability to see the load as being correct. Your human, naked eye can see .57cc better than it can see .37cc when it's down in the bottom of that brass case.
Then load a bunch up. Make up 50 or 100 of your new prospective powder at it's lightest recommended load. Load up another 50 or 100 at each 0.1gr higher till you get to the max recommended load. Then go shoot 'em and take notes. Be subjective, be objective. "This load just feels better". "This load seemed to have tighter groups". "This load kicked harder". Don't shoot all of one load, then move on to the next. Shoot maybe 10 or 20 of one load, then move up, shoot 10 or 20 of the next, move up etc. That way your gun warms up, you get tired, the ambient temp and humidity at your range change, evenly across all the loads.
After all that, pick one you think is great.
Then buy a BUNCH of it.
Then buy a pound or two of something else. Repeat till you die and your wife sells all your reloading stuff on CraigsList for 1/1000th of what you paid for it.
Sgt Lumpy
So whatever method you use to fill the cases may determine part of your powder choice. No matter what the method, you want to be able to physically SEE into the case after charging with powder. You want to be able to judge "is this the same level of powder I've seen on the other couple hundred rounds I've loaded with this powder load?".
If you use some kind of powder drop device that depends on volume, then you want some kind of powder that flows really well. On the extreme opposite end of the spectrum, if you were to weigh out every single load, then pour that into the case with that little "gold miner's pan" then powder flow is not as much of a factor.
Powders are either BALL, FLAKE, or STICK. That defines the physical shape that the stuff is in. Balls look like tiny balls. Flakes look like tiny corn flakes. Stick looks like tiny pieces of cut spaghetti. Things shaped like balls flow through tubes and funnels and openings better than things shaped like spaghetti. Flake is typically somewhere in the middle.
So for me, I would choose a BALL powder that is well regarded as working well for your intended caliber and bullet style. Read enough online comments in various forums and you'll find more than one usually that fits that bill. HP-38 and W231 will pop up a lot. They are the same powder. Tiny ball shape. Well tested in medium and +P 38 loads. They might be in 357 as well, but I don't load magnums so I simply don't know. That powder is only one example of a proven, popular .38 powder. There are lots of others.
I think it's important to have a powder that has a lot of VOLUME for the weight you're loading. ie, if the load you're running takes up 0.37cc in the case, there's a lot of "dead air" in that case. If some other proven powder took up 0.57cc in the case, there would be less "dead air". That might not make a difference in pressure or accuracy (sometimes it does) but it WILL make a difference in your ability to see the load as being correct. Your human, naked eye can see .57cc better than it can see .37cc when it's down in the bottom of that brass case.
Then load a bunch up. Make up 50 or 100 of your new prospective powder at it's lightest recommended load. Load up another 50 or 100 at each 0.1gr higher till you get to the max recommended load. Then go shoot 'em and take notes. Be subjective, be objective. "This load just feels better". "This load seemed to have tighter groups". "This load kicked harder". Don't shoot all of one load, then move on to the next. Shoot maybe 10 or 20 of one load, then move up, shoot 10 or 20 of the next, move up etc. That way your gun warms up, you get tired, the ambient temp and humidity at your range change, evenly across all the loads.
After all that, pick one you think is great.
Then buy a BUNCH of it.
Then buy a pound or two of something else. Repeat till you die and your wife sells all your reloading stuff on CraigsList for 1/1000th of what you paid for it.
Sgt Lumpy
After a while, you will likely reduce the number and type of powders you use. I've been reloading since some time in the mid 1980's, and reload for eight or nine handgun calibers and about half that number of rifle calibers. The handguns mostly get the following powders, in no particular order:
Unique
Universal
#9
2400
H110
W231
Lil' Gun
800-X
Rifles get:
Varget
H4831
W748
W760
Accurate 2520
I've got some other powders too, but use the above most often. In my .41 magnums, I'll use different powders for different applications. For example, my 3" 657 with 250 grain hard cast gets 7-8 grains of Unique. In my 6½" 657 with 210 grain XTP, I use a full load of H110; and with a 265 grain Keith LSWC I use a stout load of Lil' Gun. Each of these recipes gets me the desired velocity and group size I like.
I always chronograph my loads...it is easy and relatively inexpensive.
Unique
Universal
#9
2400
H110
W231
Lil' Gun
800-X
Rifles get:
Varget
H4831
W748
W760
Accurate 2520
I've got some other powders too, but use the above most often. In my .41 magnums, I'll use different powders for different applications. For example, my 3" 657 with 250 grain hard cast gets 7-8 grains of Unique. In my 6½" 657 with 210 grain XTP, I use a full load of H110; and with a 265 grain Keith LSWC I use a stout load of Lil' Gun. Each of these recipes gets me the desired velocity and group size I like.
I always chronograph my loads...it is easy and relatively inexpensive.
ozo
Member
removed
[left to the experts]
[left to the experts]
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ozo
Member
I give up.
I will leave the advice to the 'knowing'.
God bless you 158Grain.
Just be safe, and have fun.
I will leave the advice to the 'knowing'.
God bless you 158Grain.
Just be safe, and have fun.
ChuckS1
US Veteran
You guys are making this too hard; this ain't rocket science if you use some common sense and open a reloading manual.
Here are two loads that have been very accurate in any .38 Special revolver I've owned.
The first is a 148 grain hollow base wadcutter and 2.8 grains of Bulleseye, seated flush with the case mouth and jsut enough crimp to remove any flare.
The second is a 158 grain lead semiwadcutter (cast or swaged, doesn't matter) and 3.6 grains of Bullseye, with a moderate crimp.
Try those.
Here are two loads that have been very accurate in any .38 Special revolver I've owned.
The first is a 148 grain hollow base wadcutter and 2.8 grains of Bulleseye, seated flush with the case mouth and jsut enough crimp to remove any flare.
The second is a 158 grain lead semiwadcutter (cast or swaged, doesn't matter) and 3.6 grains of Bullseye, with a moderate crimp.
Try those.
