Interesting experience at a "no firearms allowed" restaurant

I'm also like Jimmy, My eyesight is'nt what it used to be and i
am sure i have "missed" a couple of these signs.
Carry it concealed and there are no problems fellas.
End of story/problem. While confronting the manager makes
you feel better it will do no good most of the time.
Vote with your feet if your so inclined. Then tell your friends
of the business with the backwards policy of this store.
They won't get dime one from me if they post this sign.

Chuck
 
My policy would be no open carry. If it's concealed, keep it concealed.

I understand how open carry would agitate people who are afraid of guns or angered by seeing them. What they can't see should be of no concern.

But having said that, I'll add that I will neither waste my breath arguing with a no-guns store or restaurant manager nor patronize his or her establishment. I haven't the patience for the former or the inclination for the latter.
 
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I understand how open carry would agitate people who are afraid of guns or angered by seeing them. What they can't see should be of no concern.

But having said that, I'll add that I will neither waste my breath arguing with a store or restaurant manager nor patronize his or her establishment. I haven't the patience for the former or the inclination for the latter.

I'd agree. Anti gun people and pro gun people both have rights to their opinions, and they both have the freedom to run their store/business however they choose. The issue is when someone tries to take one of my hobbies and freedoms away.

I was at a gun store recently looking at a gun. I pulled mine out to compare it. After maybe 30 seconds the employee asked if I could holster mine since it was loaded and out. I understand the theory that the employee is in control of any and all guns that are in my hands that I haven't paid for, and I understand the safety deals with him not knowing how intelligent or safety minded I am. So, obeying simple rules is all fine and good, but I'm against a no guns policy, especially those zero tolerance deals

the original point and click interface, by Smith and Wesson
 
I have yet to see a fat antigunner who would even notice the lack of a "no guns" sign on the front door of a food establishment, let alone let that get in between him and food anymore than a malcontent bent on mayhem would let the presence of said sign stop him from the intended crime.
 
This past week I had an interesting experience while visiting my son in Madison, WI. We went out for dinner, and as we entered the restaurant I saw the "No firearms allowed" sign in the window (I was not carrying), so I asked to speak with the manager.

I asked him why the sign was there, since he surely knew that a criminal, intent on doing harm, was not going to obey the sign, and that all the sign accomplishes is to discourage lawfully carrying patrons from being prepared to defend themselves and others should the need arise. He seemed really confused, stating several times that the sign was intended to keep guns out of the restaurant, thus making it "safer" for everyone. I again asked him if he really believed that the sign would stop a criminal, and he hemmed and hawed and then said, "well, having a no gun policy makes the customers feel safer, knowing that the person sitting at the next table is not carrying a loaded gun". So I again asked him, what is more important, actual safety, i.e., where law abiding citizens are able to stop a criminal, or the false perception of safety of having everyone make believe that a sign stops thugs were coming into the restaurant? He just kept repeating, it makes customers feel safer.

I also asked him if he was aware that most of the multiple-shooting incidents that have occurred in recent years have taken place is supposedly safe, "gun-free" zones, and that this might not be a coincidence. Maybe criminals actively choose such settings, hoping to be able to create mayhem unopposed. He did not respond to this comment at all.

I ended the conversation by telling him that I can legally carry in his state, and that had I been armed I would have obeyed his sign and taken the family to another restaurant. That didn't seem to faze him at all.

What was really discouraging about the whole incident was that my son, who is in law enforcement, seems to agree with this manager that having a "no guns allowed" policy makes him, and likely other customers "feel" safer. Amazing and sad.

Well, looking at it from the perspective of ND's that have occurred when folks carrying concealed handguns have experienced problems with their holsters, manipulation/checking of their weapons, or have otherwise engaged in some type of inappropriate conduct which has resulted in a ND in some restaurant (including in the restrooms), it probably makes sense to some management/owners.

In risk management it's known as "predictable is preventable."

When you consider that there's a dismaying number of folks in the general public who can't seem to walk, push a shopping cart or drive their motor vehicles without needlessly endangering others, it's not hard to see how the owner of a private business might want to cater to the perception of increased safety from firearm accidents/ND's in an environment intended to encourage family presence.

Can a person of criminal intention still decide to break the law in such an establishment? Of course.

I can also easily see some owner(s) deciding that more potential patrons may feel "safer" from accidental/careless gun handling, and give their patronage to the business, than those who may take umbrage at some perceived "slight" against their RTKBA in public (albeit on private property).

Freedom of choice, right?

If one "side" wants to prohibit firearms from their business (and it's permitted within local/state laws), and another "side" wants to take their business elsewhere if they're disallowed from bringing a gun into the business ... it's not hard to argue that both sides are right, from their perspectives within our free society.

If you don't want to join a nudist colony or visit a lawful nude beach ... you're free not to do so, right?
 
If you don't want to join a nudist colony or visit a lawful nude beach ... you're free not to do so, right?
Hmm... I would not be able to join a Nudist Colony, nor visit a Nude Beach, because I would not be able to Conceal Carry. I have no orifice large enough to conceal my carry piece. ;)
Wait a sec... couldn't that be considered discrimination of some sort?? :D
 
You are certainly within your rights to make your opinions known to the manager. The manager is certainly within his rights to ignore you if he so chooses.

Every restaurant I know of is private property, open to the public only for the conduct of business under the terms and conditions set and controlled by the owners.

The point here is that I must respect the rights of others if I am to have any reasonable expectation that they must respect my rights.

I do not engage in confrontations with those who post their premises as "gun free zones". I simply take my business elsewhere. Whenever possible I make sure that they see me taking my business elsewhere, such as the day that I closed a bank account with a sizable withdrawal (refusing a check and insisting on cash) and carried it across the street to another bank.

I like to send a simple card in the mail announcing my intention to take my trade elsewhere because of their policies. No need to make a scene, engage in a confrontation, or try to force an argument.

I think that Lobo's got the best answer on this one.
I guess my best analogy would be all the restaurants in Minnesota that ban smoking. I am a smoker and have to respect the fact that I can not smoke in those places. Instead I go to places with outdoor patios that allow smoking. I do not bother to debate the ban on indoor smoking with managers. Why cause the hassle? And yes I know, no bad guy is going to come into a restaurant and start to shoot up the place with his cigarettes and I have to defend myself by throwing my cigarettes at him.:) Sorry, best analogy I could think of.
 
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Luby's in Texas had the same sign and was shot up a number of years ago. The witnesses stated it was like a "slaughter house".

Which City My sister and BIL live near Tyler and work and shop there. They also have a Lubys as I remember.

@RobzGuns, can't just ingnore in NC they carry the force of law.
 
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Well, looking at it from the perspective of ND's that have occurred when folks carrying concealed handguns have experienced problems with their holsters, manipulation/checking of their weapons, or have otherwise engaged in some type of inappropriate conduct which has resulted in a ND in some restaurant (including in the restrooms), it probably makes sense to some management/owners.

In risk management it's known as "predictable is preventable."

When you consider that there's a dismaying number of folks in the general public who can't seem to walk, push a shopping cart or drive their motor vehicles without needlessly endangering others, it's not hard to see how the owner of a private business might want to cater to the perception of increased safety from firearm accidents/ND's in an environment intended to encourage family presence.

Can a person of criminal intention still decide to break the law in such an establishment? Of course.

I can also easily see some owner(s) deciding that more potential patrons may feel "safer" from accidental/careless gun handling, and give their patronage to the business, than those who may take umbrage at some perceived "slight" against their RTKBA in public (albeit on private property).

Freedom of choice, right?

If one "side" wants to prohibit firearms from their business (and it's permitted within local/state laws), and another "side" wants to take their business elsewhere if they're disallowed from bringing a gun into the business ... it's not hard to argue that both sides are right, from their perspectives within our free society.

If you don't want to join a nudist colony or visit a lawful nude beach ... you're free not to do so, right?

We must not watch/read the same things...I haven't heard of a ND in recent memory...anywhere. If it were occurring I'm sure the media would jump on it. I would venture to say that there are far more robberies every day than ND's.

That stuff aside I believe businesses can do as they see fit and I don't carry where it's posted out of respect...I disagree but since I don't own the place...
 
I don't know why the Luby's would have had such a sign, at that time Texas did not have concealed carry.


Dr. Suzanna Hupp fought legislation to impose more strict firearm laws in Texas, She also fought to have the Texas law repealed which kept her from legally bringing her fire arm with her at that time in October 1991.

At the time, people were not permitted to carry a weapon into public places.

"Hupp said she realized she'd obeyed Texas law and left her gun in her car. (this was her response why she left her firearm in her vehicle) At the time, people were not permitted to carry a weapon into public places."

I remember this issue weather she did it on her own I don't know but I feel she was instrumental in getting the law repealed. I'm sure if I wrong I will be corrected but this is what I have read about the issue. There is a good youtube video featuring her and her speech to the legislators.

As for patronizing an establishment with no gun signs you can't change their minds like stated, you either ignore them or best to take your business else ware and let them know why you did.

Maybe a idea would be for several groups of people to make large party reservations at one of these establishments then when you get there go in and cancel and tell them why after pretending to see the sign. Do this for severial times a night and maybe they would take the hint as you have tied their tables up. Large parties they reserve the tables up to 1/2 hour before you get there so they can make sure they have them. Course I don't know if where you live if they would try to charge you something.

As for your son ask him if being LE that every establishment he has responded to a armed robbery, if he has, they didn't have a no gun sign and has never responded to a robbery at a establishment that they did have one. Or if he has ever heard of a shooting in a gun free zone, kinda like a drug free zone where no one ever carries drugs.

Like stated you will never change the mind of an anti until something happens to them and most of the time not even then as they like to blame a inanimate object, rather then put the blame where it belongs. I have proof about a inanimate object, I have a .45acp that has set in a drawer for over 40 years loaded and has never hurt anyone.
 
Which City My sister and BIL live near Tyler and work and shop there. They also have a Lubys as I remember.
It was the Luby's in Killeen, TX
Luby's massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Survivor of the 1991 Kileen TX Lubys Shooting Massacre - YouTube

Shooting rampage at Killeen Luby's left 24 dead - Houston Chronicle



@RobzGuns, can't just ingnore in NC they carry the force of law.
If that's the case with unofficial 'No Gun' signs there, then there are quite a few places that wouldn't get my business... Simple as that. ;)
 
"What was really discouraging about the whole incident was that my son, who is in law enforcement, seems to agree with this manager that having a "no guns allowed" policy makes him, and likely other customers "feel" safer. Amazing and sad."

I'm disappointed at your son's position on this! I would certainly think a LEO would know better than to believe that a sign prohibiting CCW in a privately owned establishment makes for a safer place??
 
ROADHOUSE: "BE NICE UNTIL IT'S TIME TO NOT BE NICE"

Each side wants it's rights respected, sounds fair enough to me. Getting confrontational, insulting them by calling them "sheeple" or whatever, making veiled threats about "what I would do if I WERE carrying" is just gonna make the anti's say "gee another rabid gun nut, see why they shouldn't be allowed to carry" and do more harm than good. About post 24 & drawing your c/c fully loaded gun in a posted gun store, sounds like a classic rookie look at me move, and a great way to get shot & arrested if you survive. Nobody cares if you bring an unloaded gun in a case into the store to find a mag/part/holster etc. I see NO LOADED GUNS ALLOWED IN THE PREMISES signs in just about every single gun shop I enter & nobody complains. Many people commit suicide by gun or have kids shot by guns, so IMO it is completely reasonable for them to have a fear or dislike of guns, & My Mother was one, I respected her feelings, & she mine, even though she knew I was a gun nut. In my old line of work the saying was "treat them the way you would want someone to treat your family".
 
We must not watch/read the same things...I haven't heard of a ND in recent memory...anywhere. If it were occurring I'm sure the media would jump on it. I would venture to say that there are far more robberies every day than ND's.

That stuff aside I believe businesses can do as they see fit and I don't carry where it's posted out of respect...I disagree but since I don't own the place...

I've come across a handful of such instances being reported by local news in recent months (which have been linked via different internet gun forums). More than I'd have expected to read about in that short of a time frame. I certainly wasn't looking to find them.

It started to strike me as odd that so many folks were having problems carrying their guns out in public, because usually you don't hear about so many of them. (Or, they previously weren't being reported so widely ... or linked from local media to more internet readership as often.)

Then I realized that it's also a possibility that it may not be as uncommon as it's been in the past due to the ever increasing opportunities for private citizens to lawfully carry concealed.

It's not going to surprise me to discover that perhaps not everyone is as careful as we all might expect ... or wish ... when it comes to fully familiarizing themselves with their guns and carry methods/holsters. After all, look at the number of folks who can't seem to operate a shopping cart, or motor vehicle, without posing some degree of rudeness, annoyance or risk to other folks.
 
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Ever notice how it's OK for the "we know what's best for you, feel good crowd" to disrespect my rights, but theY expect me to bend over backwards to respect theirs?

Concealed means concealed. Those of you who live where the little signs have force of law, try to get your law to look like Missouris.
 
I have yet to see a fat antigunner who would even notice the lack of a "no guns" sign on the front door of a food establishment, let alone let that get in between him and food anymore than a malcontent bent on mayhem would let the presence of said sign stop him from the intended crime.

Best answer yet!

The medical clinic I have gone to for years has "No Weapons Allowed" signs on the doors. When I go for my quarterly check-up I get weighed. My gun, speed strip, billfold, pliers, clippers, scissors, 2 knives, keys, medicine bottles and coin purse all come out and are placed on the table in full view of the nurse. Do yo have any idea how much all this weighs! Never has there been any comment except from my Doctor who has said he is glad I am carrying! He has his own CHL! When I enter all this is concealed, and when I leave also. No one except the nurse and doctor have any idea.

I don't carry weapons, they are tools, just like they were when I was still "In harness".
 
Man I sure would hate it if people kept coming up to me and telling me how to run my business.
Sounds like a pretty good reason for the OP to speak with him. Like, if you do and say stupid things in public, you SHOULD have people reacting to you. How else are you going to learn? BTW, I don't think that the OP told him how to run his business - he just asked him some questions and gave the guy the opportunity to do his own job of showing how stupid he was.
 
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