Again...another .38 thread! (Standard Pressure for snubbie!)

Pants

Pants

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OK, let me preface this by saying that I hate to have to post this topic. But, being that I can't find a good answer I figured that I'd give it a whirl. Every thread out there on standard pressure SD ammo usually turns into, "Why don't you just get this in +P?" - I get it...and I have some very good +P options on hand, from Cor-Bon, Speer Short Barrel and FBI Loads.

What I'm looking for is a good standard pressure carry round for my new '82 Model 60. Is it better to go with a lighter bullet weight or a heavier? Does anyone have an opinions on what brands perform better? I know that this topic has probably been beat to hell - I'm truly sorry about posting this but I'm just looking for a clear answer, that's all. :D

Thank you!
 
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There isn't ONE single right answer. There are choices.

I chose the Speer GD 135gr +P in my 442. But I also have some standard pressure 158gr LSWC that I consider good too.

For standard pressure I prefer lead, and not the lightest bullets.

"You pays your money and you makes your choices."
 
I believe it's still true that Smith .38 Specials' sights are regulated for 158 grain projectiles. I don't anticipate having to use my J-frame EDC at ranges where that would be an issue, but it's worth knowing. I use the FBI load, but may try the standard-pressure Buffalo Bore 158 grain LSWCHPGC.
 
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Pants said:
...Does anyone have an opinions on what brands perform better?
Click to expand...

I would imagine that EVERYONE has an opinion on what brands perform better.

The best "opinion" would likely be the one that I form for myself based on what I consider to be "better performance".

What do I want my ammo to do?
Does this XYZ brand/style/load do it?
Is it available?

Don't chase magic bullets.


Sgt Lumpy
 
Thanks guys! I pretty much want something that will be effective. Hell, I'd probably be pretty darn effective with FMJ rounds! I read somewhere (not sure how true) that standard pressure shows better velocity out of a snub, which goes against everything I've ever known.

I'll see if my LGS has Buffalo Bore .38. I know they have .357 for sure.

Side note - any problems with my Speer Short Barrels in the Model 60? Obviously, she won't be getting a steady diet of these things.
 
Pants said:
Side note - any problems with my Speer Short Barrels in the Model 60? Obviously, she won't be getting a steady diet of these things.
Click to expand...
The way you asked that question I get the impression you feel the M60 is a fragile revolver. The M60 is all Steel and strong enough to be made into a .357 Magnum. No .38 Special ammo, even at +P pressures will stress that revolver. A steady dies of any .38 Special +P ammo will not harm that revolver as long as it's in good operating condition.

The 135gr Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel .38 Special +P ammo is a very good choice for carry because the bullet was specifically designed to reliably expand at the lower velocities associated with a short barrel revolver.

Unfortunately there are very few "standard pressure" .38 Special defense loads available today. The industry has decided they can make more money when they put a "+P" on the box even though the velocities and pressures are no greated than "standard" pressure ammo of the past. (or they charge you $1.50 a round for that standard ammo like Buffalo Bore does)
 
I was reading articles about high pressure loads in .38 special just yesterday on the internet (yea, I know) and came across tests done with this and that fast load. It also tested the 148gr wad cutter in 2 inch BBL in ballistic gel and it went 20 inches.

The San Diego, CA police , in the 80's used 158 gr semi wad cutters at standard velocity, were happy with it for many years, till going to auto pistols.
 
ArchAngelCD said:
The way you asked that question I get the impression you feel the M60 is a fragile revolver.
Click to expand...

No, I definitely don't feel like it's fragile, I just get a lil nervous when I pick up old Smith's that aren't +P rated. ha ;) I was mistaken - I checked the catalog and this prefix is from 1984, so I was 2 years off. This is probably the tightest Smith I ever owned. I can't wait to get it in the range!

On that note - I guess I'm GTG with what I have on hand for ammo. ha
 
re: Again...another .38 thread! (Standard Pressure for snubbie!) Reply to Thread

Oh FOR THE LOVE OF PETE!!

The OP TOLD YOU GUYS, "I DON'T WANT PLUS P!"
The OP told you guys, "I want something in standard pressure, but noooooooooooooooooo, just like the guys who jump in with both feet screaming about their glocks, there is always one who jumps in screaming about (words) buffalo bore!

A standard pressure 148 grain factory loaded, either hollow-base-in the correct direction wadcutter, or a standard pressure 158-grain semi-wadcutter (no plus p, no hollowpoint) will do nicely, and for as many things you wish to usew them for!

Here are some mfgr's:
1. Federal
2. Remington
3. Winchester
4. MagTech
5. BitterRoot Vally Ammunition Company
6. HSM, also located at I Q Metals online
7. Ultramax - see YouTube video on "cheap .38 Special ammunition"

The wadcutter is low recoil, does not have any hollow point to malfunction, is low recoil, flash, and low bang for night-time home defense.

The semi-wadcutter has been a useful design since the 1930's, used for target, small and medium game, and for personal defense.

Both of these rounds will work well from a snubby, and have been used by big-city plainclothesmen, since the 1950's.
 
I always reckon that a hit with a 158 LRN is better than a miss with something else. No, I am not advocating, just sayin'. Look around and I'm sure that you can locate something to your liking in a standard pressure SD load.
 
Bottom line: there are no GREAT choices for non +p ammo. Period. You simply don't have the "oomph" to cause the bullet to mushroom consistently. If it were me I would get another type weapon as when it comes to saving life & limb the cartridge/bullet is more important than the platform used to launch it.
 
Not only am I a fan of standard pressure .38 special, I'm a total fan of the 158 gr loads.

When I shoot standard pressure, 158gr, Lead, RN ammo through phone books at (2 liter) water jugs, one shot 'does it'. When I do the same drill with standard pressure, 158gr, lead, SWC ammo it usually takes at least two or three shots, dead on, to hit the water jug. Why you ask? Because that LSWC slug is veering off to the side. It blows chunks of phone book out at angles. Now, to me, that says the LSWC is more likely to bounce around in a semi-solid target. AND, I think that's why it was used by SOOOO many cops for SOOOO many years. That's my 2 cents.
 
My J frame snub liked the Federal 125gr Nyclad before I shot them all................

today I can get the Hornady Jhp standard ammo and
the Winchester 110gr silver tip, also in a standard loading.
The Remington 148wc target # GM38A hits 665fps out of a
Ruger LCR snub nose ...has 18" pen. in 4 Gel.....but does not expand.

You did not state the length of barrel your 60 has.........
good shooting.
 
Pants,
Just so you know.............

Over the last 4 or 5 years I've been passionate about testing .38 Special SD loads, and I have become a big Buffalo Bore fan to say the least. I use their +P Heavy #20A in my own M60 but yes it takes some getting used to and is a handful.

I respect your decision to use standard velocity loads if you want, but what I want to point out to you is that the Standard velocity BB .38 Specials are just about identical ballistically to the Remington R38S12 +P FBI load just in case your LGS does not carry the BB ammo and won't get it. They are both the same grain weight of 158, both have SWCHP soft lead projectiles, both generate close to the same pressures and both have a velocity of about 840 fps.

Personally my feelings are that the BB quality standards are better than Remington's and BB has proven to be more consistent and more accurate than Remington's. Just want to let you know this just in case BB ammo is not available. BB also sells through Brownell's, Mid South, Midway, etc, and they ALSO sell direct. The ONLY real pluses on Remington's side are that you can get a box of 50 R38S12 (recently re-named "HTP"but the load is still the same) for around $33 bucks and BB's standard ammo comes in boxes of 20 for around $26 bucks AND Remington's cases are Nickel plated. Again, even though Remington's are rated to THEIR +P ratings, they are about identical to the BB standard pressure ballistics. Remington, Winchester & Federal have actually lowered 38 special pressures while BB has kept them to where SAAMI had them originally.

So the bottom line here is if you are going with standard loads, stick with the Buffalo Bore because the Rem,Win, Fed, CCI STANDARD 158 grain loadings are truly anemic! If you want an equivalent load to BB standard go with Remington's +P FBI load or another good one is Speer's 135 grain +P JHP Short Barrel Gold Dot which again is just about equivalent to the BB standard load.

NOTE: The velocities and performance I'm quoting here are all from a 2" Chief's Special and personally Chronographed multiple times in different temperatures.

Chief38
 
Try the hornady 158 JHP they are standard velocity and deform a bit. Go on You Tube for testing with this round it looked pretty good. I prefer standard velocity rounds also, too much is made of +P stuff. I also carry ball ammo in a Tomcat 32 acp and don't worry about it and that's a 71 grain bullet. It won't feel good being shot by a 22 or 25 for that matter. Take a look at these Hornady's they give good penetration. It's about placement with good control and deep penetration along with good tactics that wins. HP's are iffy at best in these guns +P or not.
 
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