Florida Carry sues Deputy Andy Cox of Citrus PD

[CatSnipah]

I'm normally one who backs our LEOs and military by default. Lord knows I can't do what they do.

But, this deputy deserves to be kicked in the groin (metaphorically speaking, of course).

 

[Straightshooter2]

To give an example of how differently this could have gone, my neighbor across the street in Jacksonville was paying for his purchases in a store. When he pulled his billfold out, he exposed his holster. The off duty officer working security came up to Tom and asked, "Excuse me, do you have a permit for that." Tom still had his billfold in his hand and said, "Yes sir," showed him the permit and everything was fine. BTW, Tom was about the same age as the driver in the video.

CW

 

[Doug M.]

Why did the driver get out of the vehicle? Don't do that to me. It's a pre-assaultive behavior. The officer does seem like a freaked out zealot.

 

[Old cop]

I suprevised police officers for over 20 yrs. and this guy reminds me of someone we let go quite a few years ago. That officer was so fearful when on the street he could barely do his job. Stuff hit the fan when he stopped and off duty FBI agent on the way to church with his family. The agent ID'd himself and told the officer his duty weapon was in the glove box (long before ccw permits) and the cop acted like the guy in this video.

This officer's agency may be dealing with someone who does not have the extra measure of personal courage needed to do the job. That extra measure isn't much, but it is enough to allow officers to function when something like this happens. This officer's conduct was inexcusable.

 

[Rastoff]

This is an interesting case. I'm actually surprised at how calm everyone was. Yes, the cop got a little loud when the gun was seen (clearly he was looking for a gun), but he didn't "freak out" like many of these videos I've seen. The driver of the van was calm too. He simply complied with the cops directions. It could have gone much worse.

The cop was clearly a little over zealous. He wanted a ticket and took the highest one he could. Arresting this man for "brandishing a weapon" is ludicrous. Once the cop saw a valid permit, he should have let the situation with the gun go.

 

[shouldazagged]

I have absolutely no defense of the officer's behavior, but the whole damn thing could have been avoided if the driver had stayed in the vehicle and immediately informed the officer that he was legally armed. It's not required by law here, but my CDW licensing class strongly recommended it.

Discipline the officer, sure, but I hope the driver learned something useful from the situation.

 

[islamoradamark]

reading the OP story officer only saw leather and guessed it was a holster he never saw a gun until he searched him did i read this right?

 

[cmort666]

I have absolutely no defense of the officer's behavior, but the whole damn thing could have been avoided if the driver had stayed in the vehicle and immediately informed the officer that he was legally armed. It's not required by law here, but my CDW licensing class strongly recommended it.

Discipline the officer, sure, but I hope the driver learned something useful from the situation.

Stay in the car with your hands in plain sight? Absolutely.

Do things NOT required by law? NEVER.

Ohio requires notification WHEN ARMED. So naturally, the "envelope" gets pushed to trying to force people to notify when NOT armed.

I obey the law, nothing more, nothing less.

 

[jimmyj]

HOLY MOLY ! WOW !
Stressed out/Paranoid ??
Traffic Stop for an expired tag - when the deputy ran the License tag check (hopefully before the "Stop") would have told Him if the License Tag was really expired or if the driver hadn't yet applied the current sticker.
My question is why the Deputy took the driver out of view of the dash camera to further question the driver ??

 

[Autococker07]

Why did the driver get out of the vehicle? Don't do that to me. It's a pre-assaultive behavior. The officer does seem like a freaked out zealot.

Just out of curiosity, would a person exiting his vehicle in a calm rational manner and showing nothing but cooperation still give you the willies? I am not, nor have ever been LEO, but I would think that a bad guy could do much more harm from cover of a vehicle, (if tactical suprise was his intent) than once he exits….

I guess another way to phrase this is that aggressive behavior should be easier to spot outside than inside a vehicle no?

Don't get me wrong, not second guessing you, just trying to learn…. I try to make every possible effort to telegraph that I am in no way a threat when dealing with LEO…. in my mind, stepping out of the vehicle, keeping hands in sight and making no furtive movements helps the officer know I have nothing to hide, and no ulterior motives…. am i wrong?

 

[S&W45Colt]

Just out of curiosity, would a person exiting his vehicle in a calm rational manner and showing nothing but cooperation still give you the willies? I am not, nor have ever been LEO, but I would think that a bad guy could do much more harm from cover of a vehicle, (if tactical suprise was his intent) than once he exits….

I guess another way to phrase this is that aggressive behavior should be easier to spot outside than inside a vehicle no?

Don't get me wrong, not second guessing you, just trying to learn…. I try to make every possible effort to telegraph that I am in no way a threat when dealing with LEO…. in my mind, stepping out of the vehicle, keeping hands in sight and making no furtive movements helps the officer know I have nothing to hide, and no ulterior motives…. am i wrong?

Officers are trained to control the situation. One of the steps of control, plus it's is considered the safest approach is to have drivers and passengers remain in their car. Most issues start when someone leaves the car. By exiting, you've just set off a little buzzer in the back of the LE's mind put there by years of training.

Word of advice, put you hands on the steering wheel, stay calm and stay in your car, otherwise you may trigger something you do not want. Exiting can easily be misread as threat or guilt.

All that said, Old Cop hit it on the head, this guy is a coward and overreacted.

 

[Doug M.]

To add to that: while there are risks from whatever an offender has in a car, there are more severe risks if they are mobile. It allows for flanking and other more assaultive acts (think blitzkrieg compared to Maginot Line). And that's with only one - throw in a couple more occupants and it's a mess in a hurry. Failing to follow the directions of the officer to stay in the car is also a BIG cue. Non-compliant or cuckoo - either way, a real risk.

A citizen who is out of their car is also at a LOT more risk from HUA drivers - an unshielded body that gets hit by another vehicle at ordinary road speed is going to be badly damaged. At highway speed, its going be a big red stain. Seen it.

 

[bluegrassarms]

Officers are trained to control the situation. One of the steps of control, plus it's is considered the safest approach is to have drivers and passengers remain in their car. Most issues start when someone leaves the car. By exiting, you've just set off a little buzzer in the back of the LE's mind put there by years of training.

The Kentucky ccdw class has a section on police stops that says explicitly in big letters to not approach an officer unless you are instructed. Stay in the vehicle, hands on the steering wheel, do what you're told.

I can see an officer getting nervous if a guy hops out of his car for sure. This guy then took that and went off to some other plane. I'll trust you guys as to why, but definitely don't approach an officer or get out of your car unless you're told.

 

[steelslaver]

I don't want it to become a law, we already have plenty of laws. But, there should be some kind of class or instruction on what do do when stopped by LEOs. Doesn't matter if you have a gun or not. When I was younger I used to always jump out of the car. Didn't know any better and was just kind of meeting the guy half way. In my home area everyone knew everyone and it wasn't any kind of a problem. Couple times on the highway they jumped all over me with no real explanation. Finally a cop explained it to me in a calm and rational manner. Made sense. I grew up with no speed limit and it took a while for me to slow down, when they came out with the $5 tickets for going over 55.

Many of the law obeying citizens (especially I think those from small rural areas) are stopped so seldom and know so little about what cops worry about in these situations that they just go meet the guy.

 

[Doug M.]

Odd. LONG before I was old enough to drive( late 60s/early 70s), Dad taught me not to get out of the car. I thought that was common teaching everywhere until I encountered a few folks who had no idea.

 

[tomtheturner]

Over the years when I have been stopped by a police officer, I have always stayed in my car. Except once . . . I was stopped for speeding by a State Police Officer, and he asked me to come to his car, and get in. He wrote me a speeding ticket, and then asked for my autograph! Come to find out I looked just like a lead singer in a band that he had gone to see the previous night. About a year later I saw the band on tv, and I DID look just like the guy, except my hair was shorter.

I too think OLD COP hit the nail on the head. I have to wonder what his fellow deputies thought when they viewed the video??

Tom

 

[Old cop]

The training I received, albeit a long time ago, was to have the driver stay in the car for their safety (keeping out of passing traffic) & mine. It was the best way to control things w/o having to get overly aggressive. When I asked someone to get out of the car they were most likely going to jail.

 

[Rastoff]

Odd. LONG before I was old enough to drive( late 60s/early 70s), Dad taught me not to get out of the car. I thought that was common teaching everywhere until I encountered a few folks who had no idea.

I was stopped a couple of times when I first started driving. I always got out of the car and it was never an issue. Like steelslaver said, I thought I was being courteous to meet them half way. It wasn't until I was 23 that I was told to stay in the car by a cop. That particular time I ended up with a ticket, but the cop calmly explained to me why I should stay in the car. I had never thought about it until that time.

Now I just stay in the car, hands on the wheel with palms up. This leaves no doubt that I have nothing in my hands. I announce if I have a gun with me even though it's not necessary in CA. I don't make any move until the cop tells me it's OK. This puts them in charge and consequently at ease.

The best advice I ever got about a traffic stop is to pass the attitude test.

 

[arjay]

^^^^ Similar experience,somewhere in the early 80s things changed.

 

[sipowicz]

That deputy should be wearing a hairnet to his new job.