Sadly - Another .40 Shield Kaboom

[Silversmok3]

We only know that SAAMI specs for 40SW is 35,000 psi. We know the manufacturer states the ammo tests out to 34,000 psi.

We don't really know what the gun is rated to. Only S&W design engineers know that information and I would think they would design spec it to something greater than the SAAMI specs for the round.

Lets go back to the facts we know.

Underwood calls this load " 40S&W +p". That's a standard which doesn't exist. +p typically means the round exceeds SAAMI spec.Very few companies design their guns to handle velocities past SAAMI standard.Most advise AGAINST it in the owners manual.HK for one actually says +P loads are NOT reccommended in their P30 pistols, even though their handguns are ridiculously overbuilt.

Going back to the round the OP used, it was a .40 caliber round loaded to full power 10mm speed. That would be risky shooting it out of a big burly stainless steel 4006, to say nothing about a Shield pocket gun.It wasn't just a .40 with some oomph, but a 10mm "short" loaded to respectable speed.

Use boutique ammo in a gun unready for it, and you'll get boutique results.AKA an explosion.

 

[Roger S&W]

I think in this case, the cause is pretty clear. The UW 135grain is just way too powerful for the Shield to handle. OK, let's now talk about the two other cases, both by seemingly reputable honest members here. One case was WWB range ammo and the other was Federal Range ammo.
I thought factory ammo was safe to shoot.
Not in the Shield 40?

 

[poorfish8888]

I know I'm new, and a AirLite is not a Shield, but I had a SW 360PD.
That blew up in into 3 pieces one left in my hand. I was shooting 38sp 158gr factory new target loads. The gun is supped to be able to handle
357 magnum. Anyway I took the 3 pieces back to the shop where I bought it from, and SW paid for shipping both ways. 6months later Smith sent a brand new gun to the shop. I picked it up only had sign that I picked it up. I took it directly to different shop and sold it.

To finish to thought Smith does back there products, if they don't kill when they Kaboom.

 

[moosedog]

History repeats itself.
This reminds me of the early 1970s when ammo manufacturers appeared on the market with lighter than standard bullet weights in 9mm, 38 special and 357 magnums and increased velocities and started blowing up guns that had been working fine with the standard loadings.
I ran ranges for almost 25 years and never saw a gun let go that was using ammunition that is close to the original configuration of that particular round. When it did happen, it's always been a non standard loading or a bad reload.
The big ammo companies have the money to research and develop a round like the 40 S&W down to a 165 gr reliably and safely, but can this Underwood company say the same in their attempt to make super duper 134gr round?

 

[jmmitc06]

That sucks, glad you are okay.

I think S&W should do a little more on their end, maybe replace the product, but I do have to say I see where they are coming from too and in general, while I feel your gun might have been 'defective' I would hesitate to call it a problem with 40sw shields in general.

It seems that this has been a problem, not just with shields, but frankly with 40 autoloaders in general (been a problem with 40 glocks as well for example). I wonder if it is a stacking tolerances problem? wherein the hotrod ammo (which is only 1kpsi under SAAMI max 34k vs 35k) might be a little hotter than average (some of it must be statistically) and your gun a little weaker than the average shield or glock or what have you. Each could be in spec, but due to the tolerances being at opposite ends of spectrum, together the two could lead to an unsafe condition. If this were the case, both parties could be correct in saying that their product was within their tolerances. I find it unsettling that SD is not reported for ammo pressures or gun max pressures, but not surprised. I think if we could see the ammo pressure distribution for a specific load vs. a given gun model's safe pressure distribution, we would find they overlap for some of the factory reload / specialty self defense ammo.

This likely occurs with all calibers to some degree, but I feel 40S&W might be particularly vulnerable to such a condition. Partially because self defense loadings seem very close to the pressure max and much greater than the average pressure for all reloads from the lyman manual (which average around 23 to 25kpsi) as well as the tendency for 40sw autoloaders to be supped up 9mm frames and so forth.

 

[Roger S&W]

I think I'm going to play it safe with my new Shield 40. It's unfired as of now. I'll only shoot factory range ammo of course. Then for self defense, I'll use Speer Gold Dot 180 grain Short Barrel.
I noticed on Speer's ballistic chart, it has a lower velocity and muzzle energy compared to regular personal protection offerings.
I know Speer knows what they're doing.
There must be specific reasons why they offer this particular load/bullet weight for their short barrel personal protection ammo.
And hopefully, my Shield 40 will be less apt to explode.

 

[ginzo]

Just have to ask, how would you be getting "rid" of it?

I have a 40 shield and it has been flawless for about 375 rounds I put through it. But I think it is time to get rid of it because I don't want this to go kaboom on me or my nephew I take shooting all the time.

 

[Texas40]

Personally I think it was overloaded "hot" ammo.
Ive shot hundreds of rounds thru our two shields. Majority of it factory (ie store bought) ammo and a hundred or so of my father in laws reloads. Not a single issue or malfunction.

Ill be keeping and carrying mine so if any of you who want to "get rid of it" let me know I will PM you my address.

 

[jdw1951]

Some forums require the applicant to activate their account and that is done by acknowledging an email (it might have gotten dumped into a spam or junk mail folder) and clicking on a link. I don't remember if this forum is one of them.

On a different note, FWIW, I don't believe for a minute that you have omitted any information in this matter. It is my opinion and belief that you have been completely forthcoming in all of this and for that, I thank you.

Thanks for the information. I will pass it on to my brother-in-law. I seem to remember the forum did send me a welcome email and it may have had the requirement to acknowledge the email to activate the login.

 

[jdw1951]

As information, I will try to call S&W today via the contact who signed the letter I received. I want them to return my Shield. I also plan to call Underwood to discuss the feedback I received from the forum. I am not sure whether S&W and/or Underwood observe President's Day as a holiday.

I will post up again when I have any new information. Once again, thanks everyone for excellent feedback.

 

[mickeyblueyes]

I had a similar instance with a Remington rifle. .22 round exploded out of battery somehow? damaged the rifle pretty good. They asked about the ammo, The point I made was "That this time I was only scratched ,and luckily I had safety glasses on I was not seriously hurt. How ever if you force me to take ownership of another gun of this model ,then I can not be certain in future shooting that the same fate will occur, this time with deadly or maiming results. I got a letter from the company asking for a copy of the receipt , I received a full refund tax and all. More importantly I respect Remington and would buy another product from them. Good luck.

 

[FLSTFI]

When people are talking about bad ammo most seem to feel confident that a round could be deemed satisfactory just by letting someone test the rounds that were left from the same box. That is not how a modern manufacturing process works. Just because the couple or even hundreds or thousands of rounds produced in the same lot check out OK does not mean that the round that went kaboom was to spec. Unfortunately, I don't think there is anyway to ever know. The evidence is gone. It burned off when the round went off.

I worked at a plant that made automobile shocks and was in charge of quality control. We would fill each shock with a specified amount of oil. Luckily we also pressure tested each unit at the end of the line. We made a million parts per year. Far less than a typical ammo manufacturer makes in probable a week. I can not begin to count the number of shocks that would fail their final pressure test and when cut open and analyzed had too much or too little oil in them. Many times none of the other units produced during the same run would have any problems. Something just went wrong in the process on that particular shock.

Here we see a manufacturer making rounds that they themselves say are built to the high end of the SAAMI specs. That leaves very little room for error. I know of no way to "pressure" check the ammo after production. You could possibly weigh each round to make sure their is not too much powder in each one, but with stack up tolerances in the weight of the cases, primers, bullets and powder along with scale capabilities I doubt that could be done reliably.

I think there is a very good likelihood that this issue was ammo related. However, I would never have sent the gun back to S&W as they are not inclined to incriminate themselves or admit the gun may have been defective in some way. Once they have the gun they also have the capability to tamper with evidence. I am not saying S&W would do this, but you have now lost control of the situation and will never be able to "prove" that it may have been a defect in the gun itself.

Underwood can now also say that they have no evidence that the round was the problem either. Without being able to also analyze the gun they could turn their backs on you. In hind site you needed to get your own lawyer and an outside lab to analyze the evidence.

Unfortunately, at this point the best bet for you is to push Underwood and hope they will give $350 to replace the gun with the offer from S&W. I am glad you were not injured in any great detail and hope everything works out for you going forward. Best of luck to you.


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[Camo-Man]

Selling it, why are you interested in buying it?

 

[Jagrmaister]

Not to make light of the situation, but just in the past week I've seen an XDM KABOOM!, a Glock KABOOM!, and this Shield KABOOM! thread on the forums I take part. While I do watch the Shield .40 Kaboom threads carefully and with much interest as I own one, it can happen to any firearm with the wrong combination of circumstances and I'm just not ready to hang S&W yet. Still, it sucks that it happened OP.

 

[feelinlucky]

As information, I will try to call S&W today via the contact who signed the letter I received. I want them to return my Shield. I also plan to call Underwood to discuss the feedback I received from the forum. I am not sure whether S&W and/or Underwood observe President's Day as a holiday.

I will post up again when I have any new information. Once again, thanks everyone for excellent feedback.

From what I've seen from this thread, and dozens of others like it in various forums, the gun companies are highly motivated to get these guns out of the hands of the public, and to keep them that way. Although I have to assume that Smith and Wesson has no legal right to keep the gun, they will not want to send it back to you.

If you begin to be insistent that you want it back, they might begin to be more willing to make more concessions, like maybe giving you a new gun at no cost to you.
Depends on what you want I guess.

 

[PurpleMountainOutdoors]

Not to make light of the situation, but just in the past week I've seen an XDM KABOOM!, a Glock KABOOM!, and this Shield KABOOM! thread on the forums I take part. While I do watch the Shield .40 Kaboom threads carefully and with much interest as I own one, it can happen to any firearm with the wrong combination of circumstances and I'm just not ready to hang S&W yet. Still, it sucks that it happened OP.

The common theme seems to be kb's around the 40 round, generally. Haven't heard nearly as much with 9mm or 45.


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[red dragon]

My offer still stands. If you think your shield is gonna blow up,I'm offering $100 each. I'd offer more but its gonna blow up right?

 

[Badquaker]

I am surprised that no handloaders have chimed in about the round used. A smaller case volume can be more efficient with lighter rounds. It is possible to get very close to 10mm ballistics with lighter bullets in the 40s&w. As bullet weight increases, the larger case volume becomes more important. The following data is from Hodgdon.

BULLET WEIGHT 135 GR.
Hodgdon Powder Longshot

Starting Load Grains 8.5
Velocity (ft/s) 1,241
Pressure 25,100 PSI

Maximum Load Grains 11.5
Velocity (ft/s) 1,434
Pressure 31,900 PSI

That max load is well within pressure extremes. I am not saying that the round in question was within limits, but it can be done.

So what caused this particular kb? An independent testing lab could provide a better guess. Until someone spends the money for third party testing, we may never know what the cause is.

I suspect that if you demand the gun back, they will be more inclined to replace it. Let them know that you intend to send it out for testing, and you may force their hand. The last thing they need is to be proven at fault.

Good luck to the OP.

 

[2001gmc]

I demanded mine back. Only response I could get is we sent you a letter in the mail with instructions what to do and we havent herd from you.

 

[feelinlucky]

I demanded mine back. Only response I could get is we sent you a letter in the mail with instructions what to do and we havent herd from you.

If you were serious about getting it back, I would think you'd be making more of an effort than accepting that excuse. If you received no letter, why aren't you telling them about it?

If they had my property, I would be on the phone every day seriously bugging them about it.