Sadly - Another .40 Shield Kaboom
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Ditchdigger
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I did understand why the camaro analogy was brought into this and I agree completely with that line of reasoning. Now the part I neglected to see was that the wwb was in fact questionable on its origin. That changes everything in my mind and I believe makes it 5 for 5 on the strikes against or strongly leaning against the ammunition. I'll proceed with practicing (though with one heck of a flinch for a few mags) and carrying, what in my opinion is a fine weapon, for a long time.
I'll continue my observing now.
feelinlucky
Member
These kaboom threads do make one thing very clear. Be very careful of the ammunition you put in your Shield!
Grayfox
US Veteran
If you go back to the pics in post #61, you can clearly see the case is stuck in the chamber and deformed. In the second photo it appears that the case blew out at the bottom rear near the head or at the feed ramp area.
I'm no expert and don't claim to be. But with 40+ years of shooting experience, this indicates to me that a hot load may have fired before the gun was fully locked into battery. However, due to the barrel being cracked, I'm more inclined to think it was a case of a seriously over pressure load.
So its entirely possable that both the gun and load were at fault. It was the combination of the two that led to the Ka-Boom.
For the record, I don't like or own any .40S&W caliber or any plastic guns. After reading these Ka-Boom related threads, I'm happy with my choices.
I'm no expert and don't claim to be. But with 40+ years of shooting experience, this indicates to me that a hot load may have fired before the gun was fully locked into battery. However, due to the barrel being cracked, I'm more inclined to think it was a case of a seriously over pressure load.
So its entirely possable that both the gun and load were at fault. It was the combination of the two that led to the Ka-Boom.
For the record, I don't like or own any .40S&W caliber or any plastic guns. After reading these Ka-Boom related threads, I'm happy with my choices.
Silversmok3
Member
"......discussed with Underwood their 135-grain +P designation and was told they use it to caution buyers to not fire it in firearms that prohibit +P ammo. They also stated their 135-grain round was loaded to 34,000 psi which is lower than the .40 S&W SAAMI maximum pressure"
Hmm. A couple of things .What handgun is certfied for 40S&W +P? A Glock 20? A 1006 ? Because 40S&W "+p" is a nonexistent standard. How can a firearm be rated to handle a nonexistent category ?
Next. The entire definition of +P in other calibers like 9mm is a round loaded above SAAMI pressures.So how can they load a round above SAAMI standard but not bust the maximum?That's like saying your car is moving at 100 MPH, but you're not breaking the speed limit.
Lastly, as we can see from soad's chart below, the Underwood rounds fired by the OP are well into the 10mm power spectrum.It may be the case that S&W has case support issues with the Sheild and .40 S&W, but it's a bridge too far in THIS specific incident to say the ammo had no part. You don't shoot 10mm Auto out of a 9mm sized pistol without explosive , wallet ruining consequences. The Underwood load in this case is stout enough to generate concern shooting it out of a *******' 4006 , and that's one tough piece .
Hmm. A couple of things .What handgun is certfied for 40S&W +P? A Glock 20? A 1006 ? Because 40S&W "+p" is a nonexistent standard. How can a firearm be rated to handle a nonexistent category ?
Next. The entire definition of +P in other calibers like 9mm is a round loaded above SAAMI pressures.So how can they load a round above SAAMI standard but not bust the maximum?That's like saying your car is moving at 100 MPH, but you're not breaking the speed limit.
Lastly, as we can see from soad's chart below, the Underwood rounds fired by the OP are well into the 10mm power spectrum.It may be the case that S&W has case support issues with the Sheild and .40 S&W, but it's a bridge too far in THIS specific incident to say the ammo had no part. You don't shoot 10mm Auto out of a 9mm sized pistol without explosive , wallet ruining consequences. The Underwood load in this case is stout enough to generate concern shooting it out of a *******' 4006 , and that's one tough piece .
red dragon
Member
You put a ridiculously hot load in your gun and it blew up. Uh.......why are you surprised? The owners manual can't teach common sense. Thankfully no one got hurt. The fact that you withheld the brand of ammo in the beginning already tells me you knew what the problem was. You made a mistake,learn from it and move on . Luckily it only cost you a couple hundred dollars. If anyone thinks its their shield, I'm offering $100 each for a pre kaboom.
2001gmc
Member
I can tell you what I have learned from all this. If I have a 40 caliber gun and I cant go out and buy any box of 40 S&W ammo and put it in the gun and shoot it. I don't need the gun period.
Well, I believe you can if you are a bit discerning in your ammo selection. IMHO, I see no advantage in using ammo that is hotter than a standard LEO round.
This is the thing, there are many variables in this particular situation. What we know for sure is that the ammo in question is the hotter than hades. What we don't know:
How was the ammo handled, i.e. was it dropped in such a way as to cause a bullet set back. Was it loaded and unloaded multiple times causing the same set back. Was there a manufacturing defect in the ammo or the gun.
So many variables, but my money is on the ammo.
This is the thing, there are many variables in this particular situation. What we know for sure is that the ammo in question is the hotter than hades. What we don't know:
How was the ammo handled, i.e. was it dropped in such a way as to cause a bullet set back. Was it loaded and unloaded multiple times causing the same set back. Was there a manufacturing defect in the ammo or the gun.
So many variables, but my money is on the ammo.
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peterthefish
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I'm not sure of the ammo company but someone puts out 10mm ammo so hot they recommend you do not shoot it from a Delta Elite. Perhaps a similar wording is needed here.
As to the idea that SAAMI does not apply to +P, that is not the case for many cartridges. There is a SAAMI spec for 9mm +P. .40 S&W, not so much.
The idea that because you can't run ANY ammo you happen to pickup in a Shield makes it a bad gun is one I can't subscribe too. Shooting is dangerous. Stick with factory ammo from a major manufacturer and you'll be fine. A very hot load from a botique manufacturer, who knows?
They may test it as under SAAMI, but barrel differences can make a big difference in actual pressure. Most .40 loads in my manual run 25,000 -30,000 psi as MAX - there's probably a good reason for that.
As to the idea that SAAMI does not apply to +P, that is not the case for many cartridges. There is a SAAMI spec for 9mm +P. .40 S&W, not so much.
The idea that because you can't run ANY ammo you happen to pickup in a Shield makes it a bad gun is one I can't subscribe too. Shooting is dangerous. Stick with factory ammo from a major manufacturer and you'll be fine. A very hot load from a botique manufacturer, who knows?
They may test it as under SAAMI, but barrel differences can make a big difference in actual pressure. Most .40 loads in my manual run 25,000 -30,000 psi as MAX - there's probably a good reason for that.
2001gmc
Member
Well smith done said it wasn't the gun. Just like every other Kaboom thats been sent in. Personally I dont reload or shoot reloads. I dont even think about looking at the pressures when buying a box of bullets for my guns. Really it never crossed my mined at all. If I was a reloader I'm sure I would know all these things and be looking at pressures and stuff all the time. I never even thought about it. If its 40 S&W I stick it in my gun and shoot it.
2001gmc
Member
Personally I've never herd of this underwood ammo before. But if I seen it and it was good brass ammo and it was 40S&W I would have never thought twice about shooting it through my 40 shield before it blew up.
Silversmok3
Member
So, you never check the octane rating of your gas then?
Here's the thing. The Shield is designed to shoot .40 S&W.
What the OP was firing is some *******ized monstrosity combining the speed and pressure of full power 10mm with the case size of .40 S&W.The moment I see on the side of a box "+p" , it's incumbent upon me to ensure the weapon I intend on shooting that stuff through can handle it.
It's like folks in the car scene back in the early 00's . They'd strap on a tank of nitrous oxide and a 200 HP shot kit to their ma's hand me down Accord, and then wail about their cars puking crankshaft parts.If you juice up your car improperly, expensive stuff is gonna break. So it goes for guns. If you stick boutique ammo into the chamber of a firearm not verified by its builder to handle said ammo, you risk problems.
There's a big difference between a Sheild blowing up from factory in spec standard load .40 cal, and a Sheild blowing up after four shots of what basically was boutique loaded 10mm Kurtz.
Is it not true that some bullet designs if pushed too fast have less than desirable results? i have seen some tests that show some Speer Gold-Dots performing worse than the standard loads and +p loads that Speer produces.
Well hey, I can certainly understand your point of view and everyone is entitled to their own beliefs or opinions on the matter.
Perhaps incidents such as these will encourage folks to think twice about what ammo they are about to shoot or at the very least, get people to do a little research before to make sure they really want to go down that road.
2001gmc
Member
All I'm saying it the OP had no idea he was doing anything wrong. I would not have know either. Most folks have no idea about pressures of different rounds. Learning and seeing all this stuff happen makes me want to learn about it though. I can guarantee you I could walk in any gun store in my area with that ammo and ask if it would be ok for me to run it in my shield and they would say hey no problem its a S&W.
peterthefish
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Since you seem to be relatively new to shooting, I'll share another invaluable tip with you. NEVER trust advice from gun store staff. They don't make grains of salt big enough to go with their advice. More of what I hear from them is wrong than right. I watched them let a guy trade in a new Beretta 92 yesterday because "it was shooting left and the sights weren't adjustable."
DeeBee
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2001gmc
Member
New to shooting? Just about 27yrs under my belt is all. Why you think that? Just because I've never looked at pressure ratings on ammo? I could look at them all day unless I had a chart to go by I would have no idea if a load was hot or not. I have looked at the FPS alot but never payed any attention to the pressure but I will now. I could look at a box of 40 and it have any number on the pressure and I wouldn't know any different.
peterthefish
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Sorry for the assumption and no insult intended. I guess I assume most folks who have been shooting long enough with some regularity have some dipped their toes a little deeper into the ammo side of things.
And I don't know anyone who's been shooting more than 2 decades who thinks asking a question at a gunstore is likely to get them a good answer. But perhaps your local stores are better than mine - so that may be an unfair criticism.
Dikinalaska
Member
Well one thing I've thought of on a few of these KB threads, and no disrespect to this particular OP, but a few of these situations could've been self loadings or reloads and wouldn't be admitted to. Not saying that happened here, that's just what my original thought was because the specific manufacturer wasn't mentioned until a few options were given. Again, no disrespect to the OP, but it is the internet, and people can say anything. I mean, I am an astronaut lol.
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