Need opinions from Govt/military issue-1911A1 collectors please.

[bgrafsr]

Many years ago, during my M1 Carbine phase, I was also into 1911's. I had a very nice Colt 1911 from 1914, a WWII Colt 1911A1, two National Match 1911A1's built by the U.S. Springfield Armory, and of course my Rem. Rand. I sold all except for the RR. I regret selling every one of them.

 

[Faulkner]

I have a USGI 1911A1 made by Ithaca that I'm fond of that were made in the WWII era.

 

[the ringo kid]

Many years ago, during my M1 Carbine phase, I was also into 1911's. I had a very nice Colt 1911 from 1914, a WWII Colt 1911A1, two National Match 1911A1's built by the U.S. Springfield Armory, and of course my Rem. Rand. I sold all except for the RR. I regret selling every one of them.

I had 2 star General Francis P. Hardaways 42 RR. I had a severe case of the stupids, and sold it back to the guy i originally got it from.

Hardaway was MacArthurs Artillery General in WWII-later became the one in charge of the Civil Air Patrol.

 

[reddogge]

Remington did produce 21,676 1911s in 1918 under the Remington UMC label in the same Bridgeport, Conn. plant it made the 1891 Mosin Nagants and bayonets for the Russian army.

The Remington Rands won't have serial numbers that are matching rather most of the parts will be stamped with different letters, roll marks, and symbols which are period correct for that era pistol. Some aren't stamped but are of a configuration that can be identified as being correct. You have to be careful because some people have made a cottage industry out of replaceing parts with period correct parts and passing them off as original. Only people who know what to look for in color and wear patterns can tell sometimes if they really are.

Short answer, be careful when talking about correct military firearms.

 

[fat tom]

Personally I want a 1911 made by Singer.

Well,I reckon so! And I want a Lamborghini and a villa on the Cote D'Azur.
f.t.

 

[Rastoff]

Well,I reckon so! And I want a Lamborghini and a villa on the Cote D'Azur.
f.t.

When you get your villa I'll bring my Singer 1911 over to show you. Then we can both go for a spin in our Lamborghini's.

 

[the ringo kid]

Remington did produce 21,676 1911s in 1918 under the Remington UMC label in the same Bridgeport, Conn. plant it made the 1891 Mosin Nagants and bayonets for the Russian army.

The Remington Rands won't have serial numbers that are matching rather most of the parts will be stamped with different letters, roll marks, and symbols which are period correct for that era pistol. Some aren't stamped but are of a configuration that can be identified as being correct. You have to be careful because some people have made a cottage industry out of replaceing parts with period correct parts and passing them off as original. Only people who know what to look for in color and wear patterns can tell sometimes if they really are.

Short answer, be careful when talking about correct military firearms.

Im printing out the answers in this thread when it finally slows=and taking it w/ me at the next gun show in 2 & 1/2 loooooooooong weeks.

 

[reddogge]

ringo,
The best thing to do is buy this book, "Collector's Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1" by Charles W. Clawson. It covers all of the 1911A1 contractors too. Read up on them and take the book with you to shows. No pricing info but you will learn what is correct and what isn't. Sometimes it's hard to tell even if the slide belongs to the frame without pictures. I hope it's still published.

With the prices these things are bringing now it's wise to educate yourself before plunking down a lot of money for a collector grade gun and finding out it's really a just a nice "shooter" for much less.

 

[bgrafsr]

Both that and a Carbine. I wonder if they also made Garands?

Hey Ringo kid:

Sorry to tell you, but Singer did not make an M1 Carbine or a Garand.

Carbines:
Rockola, Chicago, IL; Irwin Pedersen, Grand Rapids, MI. (there contract was taken over by Saginaw Steering Gear, GM); Inland Mfg, GM, Dayton, OH; Winchester Repeating Arms, New Haven Conn.;, Underwood-Elliott-Fisher, Hartford, Conn.; Quality Hardware & Machine, Chicago, IL; National Postal Meter Co., Rochester, NY (NPM changed there name to Commercial Controls in April 1944 and 239 Carbines were made using that name) Try finding one of those; Standard Products, Port Clinton, OH, Saginaw Steering Gear, GM, two plants: Grand Rapids, MI. and Saginaw, MI; IBM, Poughkeepsie, NY.

 

[the ringo kid]

ringo,
The best thing to do is buy this book, "Collector's Guide to Colt .45 Service Pistols Models of 1911 and 1911A1" by Charles W. Clawson. It covers all of the 1911A1 contractors too. Read up on them and take the book with you to shows. No pricing info but you will learn what is correct and what isn't. Sometimes it's hard to tell even if the slide belongs to the frame without pictures. I hope it's still published.

With the prices these things are bringing now it's wise to educate yourself before plunking down a lot of money for a collector grade gun and finding out it's really a just a nice "shooter" for much less.

Thank you for the book. Ive never heard of it but will see if I can find a copy today. I tried looking on the 1911 forum yesterday and this morning--but only got a pathway error message.

 

[the ringo kid]

Hey Ringo kid:

Sorry to tell you, but Singer did not make an M1 Carbine or a Garand.

Carbines:
Rockola, Chicago, IL; Irwin Pedersen, Grand Rapids, MI. (there contract was taken over by Saginaw Steering Gear, GM); Inland Mfg, GM, Dayton, OH; Winchester Repeating Arms, New Haven Conn.;, Underwood-Elliott-Fisher, Hartford, Conn.; Quality Hardware & Machine, Chicago, IL; National Postal Meter Co., Rochester, NY (NPM changed there name to Commercial Controls in April 1944 and 239 Carbines were made using that name) Try finding one of those; Standard Products, Port Clinton, OH, Saginaw Steering Gear, GM, two plants: Grand Rapids, MI. and Saginaw, MI; IBM, Poughkeepsie, NY.

OOps, I was thinking of Sears, but looks like im wrong on that one too. I wouldnt mind an Inland. I know a guy locally who has two nice ones--but wants $6,000 each.

 

[bgrafsr]

OOps, I was thinking of Sears, but looks like im wrong on that one too. I wouldnt mind an Inland. I know a guy locally who has two nice ones--but wants $6,000 each.

What are they? Presentation guns, M1A1 paratroopers with the folding stock?

 

[SASABERANGER]

The prices for original 1911 and 1911A1s vary widely by manufacturer and area of the country.
I have seen several in recent years that sold here in Wyoming for much less than they would have out on the east coast.
Check Gun Broker. But find one someone is actually bidding on and not the starting price. That will give you and idea of what someone really thinks the gun is worth.
$1,000 to $2,000 is not out of line for nice Military .45s.
In 2001 I bought/traded into a 1913 Model 1911 of U.S. Navy. Less than 80% but correct and complete. It was only the third example I had ever actually seen, between 1997 and 2001, I paid $3900 for the gun, which was way over the listed Blue Book Price at the time. But the gun has gained in estimated value and despite what the blue Book says the last one I saw actually sold for about $6600, and it was in about the same condition as mine. No pits or rust, but very little original finish.
I hope you get lucky and find a sleeper too.
Thom Braxton
SWCA #1474

 

[the ringo kid]

What are they? Presentation guns, M1A1 paratroopers with the folding stock?

Nope, not even near--just run of the mill and around average or less-condition. Hes had these for sale for several years. The first time I looked at them, they appeared to be extremely high-priced junk to me. However, Mr. Chilson of near Houston here in Texas, has a WWII Paratrooper M1A1 and said he bought it off the 82nd vet-who lives here in Corpus. also has his WWII helmet too. This one is in very nice shape and was $6,000 or $6,500? I forget which?

 

[the ringo kid]

The prices for original 1911 and 1911A1s vary widely by manufacturer and area of the country.
I have seen several in recent years that sold here in Wyoming for much less than they would have out on the east coast.
Check Gun Broker. But find one someone is actually bidding on and not the starting price. That will give you and idea of what someone really thinks the gun is worth.
$1,000 to $2,000 is not out of line for nice Military .45s.
In 2001 I bought/traded into a 1913 Model 1911 of U.S. Navy. Less than 80% but correct and complete. It was only the third example I had ever actually seen, between 1997 and 2001, I paid $3900 for the gun, which was way over the listed Blue Book Price at the time. But the gun has gained in estimated value and despite what the blue Book says the last one I saw actually sold for about $6600, and it was in about the same condition as mine. No pits or rust, but very little original finish.
I hope you get lucky and find a sleeper too.
Thom Braxton
SWCA #1474

Thank you and im registering there tomorrow as a matter of fact. Your 1911 reminds me of a P-38 I passed up twice when offered to me. The guns serial number was: 7777. I was first offered it in 1997 for $400. Almost no finish intact, had lots of pitting--but otherwise--all matching. I turned it down for two reasons--condition and that I had just bought the P-38, that was shortly stolen from me.

About a year or two later, it was offered to me @$600, and looked even uglier than I remembered. I had been thinking on that guy for months. Well, I would have bought it that time--but didnt have enough money left after just buying the AC 43 P-38 I now have.

Last I heard, a guy I know sold it for about $5-$6,000--a few months after I last saw it in early 1999. I havent seen nor heard about it since then.

Thank you and me too-on the sleeper. Im going to see if the seller will bring more than the 4-5 he usually brings to the gun shows. He also has Lugers and P=38s too.

 

[BigBill]

I almost bought a new Auto Ordnance 45--almost. Thr guy I got mine from had both on order and had a bit of trouble thinking the A.O would be in to bring to me at the gun show Feb 8th. Well, as my "luck" had it--both arrived but id already committed to the RIA since he had one in stock.

The Springfield, Auto Ordnance and a Thompson--are my next 45s.[/QUOTE

I really like the Thompson custom 1911a1 it's got all the goodies.
As far as a stainless 1911 the Thompson is it. For a nickel 1911 the ria is it.

 

[the ringo kid]

I almost bought a new Auto Ordnance 45--almost. Thr guy I got mine from had both on order and had a bit of trouble thinking the A.O would be in to bring to me at the gun show Feb 8th. Well, as my "luck" had it--both arrived but id already committed to the RIA since he had one in stock.

The Springfield, Auto Ordnance and a Thompson--are my next 45s.[/QUOTE

I really like the Thompson custom 1911a1 it's got all the goodies.
As far as a stainless 1911 the Thompson is it. For a nickel 1911 the ria is it.

I first saw one of those Thompsons around a month or so ago. Now I want one--but will have to wait probably a year at least. I admit im not a big fan of stainless but, I do like the one I saw-and may change the mind on them )

 

[CptCurl]

My opinion is "Go for it." They aren't getting any cheaper.

I see decent Remington Rands going in the price range you mentioned quite often. Many go higher and break the $2k mark.

Curl

 

[JJEH]

I was needing opinions from those here who own original WWII 1911s--which have to be all matching and in at least 80% or better condition--to please let me know what are acceptable prices on these? Reason im asking is I was wondering if a nice one made by Remington Rand--in the above condition--is a good deal at between $1,650-to-$1,850? or if thats too much?

There are too many variables to set this price. There are five versions of the Rem. Rand from 1942-1945. You need to take good overall pictures as well as close up pictures of all markings in order to determine a price range on these pistols.

Hope this helps.

 

[bgrafsr]

My opinion is "Go for it." They aren't getting any cheaper.

I see decent Remington Rands going in the price range you mentioned quite often. Many go higher and break the $2k mark.

Curl

That is one nice Springfield Armory 1911 you have. More pics of it please.