Q-Targets

[CCantu357]

While looking at targets for range training I noticed a good bit of options. Most use the ring style scoring, but one that has always stood out to me was the FBI Q-Target. Are they even used? I never good quite understand the scoring of it or the idea behind the Q-Target.

 

[WCCPHD]

Q targets are used by law enforcement agencies for their ease of scoring. On a 50 round course each hole inside the Q is two points. There is no variation in points based on where the round hits. The target can be scored quickly and easily.

 

[XTrooper]

When we (NJSP) switched to the FBI Q-targets in the late 70's-early 80's, our scoring was even easier than described by WCCPHD. There were no points involved and your shot was scored simply as a hit or miss. If you got enough hits in the coke bottle silhouette, you qualified.

 

[Maze 686]

When we (NJSP) switched to the FBI Q-targets in the late 70's-early 80's, our scoring was even easier than described by WCCPHD. There were no points involved and your shot was scored simply as a hit or miss. If you got enough hits in the coke bottle silhouette, you qualified.

Now with the 50 round course it is 40 hits and the night course is 32 out of 40 rounds. Numbers are recorded instead of the pass/fail that we used a little while.

 

[XTrooper]

Now with the 50 round course it is 40 hits and the night course is 32 out of 40 rounds. Numbers are recorded instead of the pass/fail that we used a little while.

Interesting. When I retired in April 1991, we were still using the pass/fail system.

 

[Maze 686]

Interesting. When I retired in April 1991, we were still using the pass/fail system.

Changed back over around 98 if I remember right. Used to be a 28 for night and 42 for day fire too. I retired Aug 2013 so I don't even have to kneel at the 15 or 25 yard line (I still do).

 

[walkin' trails]

Having worked for an agency that used the B27-type target, and my current employer that uses a Q, I can say that the Q was designed to get more people with weaker skills to qualify. I was recently thinking that while at my first agency, the 10 ring caused me to focus on my sights for more precise shot placement despite the time constraints, we shot a 360 point course on that target at distances out to 50 yards, and my best was a 359 I still remember pulling that round into the 9 ring. By comparison, when first introduced to the Q, we still had to shoot a string from the 59, but there was something about it that seemed to cause my long distance shots not to group as tight. Even with variances such as the QIT and the Hostile Q, I don't see tight shot placement all that much. The Q doesn't exactly stress marksmanship skills to a weak shooter

 

[Maze 686]

I think the Q - target is designed to teach center mass shooting. The B - 27 teaches bullseye shooting. The ten ring on a B -27 is too low on the target to represent a persons heart / lung area and that was deciding factor for most agencies switching to the Q. If you want to make it smaller, there is a smaller Q - target that is used to simulate distance. We use it for rifle shooting.

 

[XTrooper]

Having worked for an agency that used the B27-type target, and my current employer that uses a Q, I can say that the Q was designed to get more people with weaker skills to qualify.

You're way off on this. Your current agency may be using it because they think it may help weaker shooters, but that was not why the Q-target was designed.

The FBI determined it was wiser to have a target where the shooter was aiming at center mass rather than an a 10X ring that wasn't going to be there when they had to shoot a real target. The target's design has everything to do with psychology and nothing to do with the skill level of the shooter.

Everything you say about the dynamics of shooting the Q-target may be true, but the motivation for its development had absolutely nothing to do with getting "more people with weaker skills to qualify." If your agency is using the Q-target for this reason, understand that this is a perversion of its original purpose.

FWIW, I think the B-27 and Q-target designs are both antiquated and that there are better choices today. I'm an NRA-certified Law Enforcement Firearms Instructor and my business partner and I own and operate a shooting school. We currently use TQ-15 targets. I believe they incorporate the best elements of both of the older designs. They are basically a big silhouette with a center square that teaches shooters to aim for the high center mass of their targets. They are also excellent for practicing the "Mozambique Drill" and similar shooting exercises.

 

[forrestinmathews]

From the perspective of a person that wants a perfect qualifier score, the Q stinks. I dislike it immensely when paired with stock M9 sights. I find it very lighting sensitive when qualifying.

 

[CCantu357]

Thanks. I am just looking for a good target to use for self defense practice. I never cared for those novelty picture targets.

 

[XTrooper]

Thanks. I am just looking for a good target to use for self defense practice. I never cared for those novelty picture targets.

Look here------> Law Enforcement Targets, Inc. - Shooting Targets, Paper Targets, Cardboard Targets, Steel Targets, NRA Targets, Plastic Targets, Target Backers, Target Bobbers, Military Targets, Federal Agency Targets, Shooting Range Accessories, Weapons Cleaning, We

We buy all our targets, backers, stands, etc from them.

If they don't have a target, it isn't made!

 

[CCantu357]

Thanks for the link. Looks like they have it all. I like those old ICE/B60 targets.

 

[DR505]

By the way, the "Q" target is actually the QIT...stands for "Quick Incapacitation Target." The FBI qual for street agents (using handguns) is now 48 out of 60 in the scoring area is passing. For Firearms Instructors and SWAT, a score of 54 of 60 is a qualifying score. For the M-4 or MP-5 it is 40 out of 50 for street agents, or 45 out of 50 for SWAT/Firearms Instructors, using the QIT.

 

[BobR1]

Another option is Cardboard Silhouettes, such as the IDPA Target. It has the High Center Chest Scoring Area. You can put a Shirt over the target for more realistic practice. They make Tan Target Pasters to cover the bullet holes for target repair. They are meant to go on portable target stands that you can move around to set up simulations.

We have over 50 steel stand bases on the range we use to set up Handgun and 3 Gun Matchs. Ours take 2x4 boards for the vertical target holders. You can adjust the target height by using different length boards. We are using 5 foot tall boards at the moment which puts the top of the head at about 5'-8" or so.

Do a Search for portable silhouette stands. You should be able to locate plans for wood ones that are easy to make.

We leave the cardboard silhouette targets up after the 3 Gun and Handgun Match so that it encourages people to use them. It cuts down on target damage on the Rifle Targets which are 4' X 4' Plywood with Black Fiber Board over them. Handgun shooters put a lot of mileage on the Fiber Board target backers shooting paper silhouettes on them. All the By Majic target repair that takes place. I am one of the ones who does that.

Bob

 

[Pasifikawv]

Went thru my quals for patrol rifle recently. Standard Q targets were used for the scored portion (mandated by state code). Will do my re-quals for handgun and shotgun next week. Standard Q targets will be used for that also.

One issue with the Standard Q targets was regarding the required "head shots" with patrol rifle. There was no demarcation of the exact "head" area on the Standard Q. Wasn't a big issue for any of us who were qualifying, but a Modified Q (Q-99, Q-03, or similar) would have been more fitting.

We did run numerous non-scored drills over several days using DT-ANTQ and various scenario targets. The non-scored drills were much more fitting, realistic, and rewarding than the state-mandated course of fire for qualification. Instructor was former MilPol and DOE. He had us moving and shooting thru some excellent drills that taxed skills, induced stress, induced equipment failures, mimicked low-light with welding goggles, and much more.

The TQ-15 targets used by the DOE would have been better than the FBI-Standard Q we used for quals, but the Instructor scored us on the targets that state code requires.

 

[TJ1225]

I would recommend you mix it up and shoot different looks, varying the size shape distance and numbers of targets engaged.

 

[zeke]

Speaking of mixing it up. Save up your shirts and use your choice of humanoid scoring targets beneath the old shirt. Doubtful any real threats are running around with scoring zones on em.

 

[Maze 686]

Even better is to attach a balloon in a cutout with t-shirt over the target. Some people have had the balloon holding up the target by string.

Balloon pops and the target goes down, no pop and target is still a threat.