So you think it looks like a screw up? It really stinks to buy a gun you've been wanting a while, then when you finally get it, have to send it back for something they never should have let get past QC. I wonder what the turn around time is for warranty work. I also wonder if they pay for me to ship it back.
Picked up my 625 JM. First impressions.
- Thread starter Warpspasm
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So you think it looks like a screw up? It really stinks to buy a gun you've been wanting a while, then when you finally get it, have to send it back for something they never should have let get past QC. I wonder what the turn around time is for warranty work. I also wonder if they pay for me to ship it back.
The Highlander
Member
My 627 Pro Series had as bad a forcing cone, and the crown was done by a drunk blind guy with a handsaw. Couldn't hit a barn, from inside the barn! S&W sent a call tag and repaired it. The gun is definitely a keeper now.
I've sent three new guns back to three different manufacturers in the last year, I think they are dropping QC to keep up with demand.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I've sent three new guns back to three different manufacturers in the last year, I think they are dropping QC to keep up with demand.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
Lou_NC
Member
Hard to say for certain, since I don't own any recent-production Smiths. However, comparing your excellent photos to my 625 and 22-4 models in .45ACP, my forcing cones appear to be cut much smoother.
What you have could very well be the "new normal" for S&W workmanship, but it couldn't hurt to ask them to take another look at it. After all you've already paid for the warranty in the price of the new gun, why not use it?
I'd
follow the advice to send it back to SAW. Let them inspect it and follow thru with the warranty they've provided you. It's part of why you bought a Smith and definitely part of why they cost more. They'll stand behind it. Maybe it's a QC issue and I've been too hard on the dealer I bought my 642 from with the same issue. In my case, they replaced the barrel but having to do that on a "new" gun doesn't live up to the reputation of Smith that customers expect. That's in another thread. But as you said, you pay your money and wait weeks to get something that leaves you limp. It's shouldn't be that way. Maybe because stock is flying out the door, QC can't keep up. Who knows. But regardless, I wouldn't let an independent smith dick with it. I believe that will void the warranty. Good luck.
follow the advice to send it back to SAW. Let them inspect it and follow thru with the warranty they've provided you. It's part of why you bought a Smith and definitely part of why they cost more. They'll stand behind it. Maybe it's a QC issue and I've been too hard on the dealer I bought my 642 from with the same issue. In my case, they replaced the barrel but having to do that on a "new" gun doesn't live up to the reputation of Smith that customers expect. That's in another thread. But as you said, you pay your money and wait weeks to get something that leaves you limp. It's shouldn't be that way. Maybe because stock is flying out the door, QC can't keep up. Who knows. But regardless, I wouldn't let an independent smith dick with it. I believe that will void the warranty. Good luck.
I cleaned the rest of the lead out of the forcing cone this morning and examined the forcing cone some more. It looks to me like it is cut further in the barrel towards the muzzle on the top part than on the bottom part. Most of the lead and powder fouling I'm getting is on the bottom of the forcing cone. It makes me think the forcing cone may be cut on an angle and not perpendicular to the barrel.
michaelnel
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S&W does pay the shipping. I just sent my PC Stealth Hunter back to have several issues corrected. They email you a FedEx shipping label for 2 day shipping charged to their account.
Good luck on your 625. I just got mine and haven't been able to shoot it yet. After seeing your post I checked mine and it is rough also. Must be the new norm? I haven't had a Smith for a long while but don't remember seeing anything that looked that rough before.
carl3989
Member
8 day mandatory waiting period? Interested to know whether that applies to your first owned hand gun only? Anti 2nd amendment advocates would argue that time serves as a "cool off period" preventing the buyer of said gun using same in the heat of the moment. However if you already own a gun, why would the buyer need to wait 8 days to use the new gun rather than the others that he owns? Oh, silly me I forgot. One can't apply logic to most gun legislation.
at_liberty
Member
I cleaned my 625JM today after shooting several moon clips of Meister lead yesterday. I have cleaned the lead out of this gun for the last time. It's all FMJ from here. That's not a problem for me, because I have lots of bullets left from when I had ambitions about shooting IDPA and had not yet gotten into using lead. Looking closely at the bore and rifling, I would have to say that the grooves are relatively shallow, not as defined as my other guns. The notion that these have EDM barrels is probably true. Mine bears it out on all counts.
The lead supply will go in my 1911s.
The lead supply will go in my 1911s.
at_liberty
Member
I find myself with a new interest in a 625 PC (for shooting lead), but the clown grips would be ditched immediately. Love the Pachies on this gun frame.
oneflycowboy
Member
Good info here. I have been thinking about a 4" JM for a while.
Thinking more about a nice used 25-2 a little more after reading this thread and some other comments I have read about the JM 625.
I have a 625 model of 1988 with a 5" barrel that I think is great. I thought about getting another 45 ACP revolver and was considering the JM 625. However I am a little concerned about some of the things I have been hearing with regards to these new JM 625's.
Thinking more about a nice used 25-2 a little more after reading this thread and some other comments I have read about the JM 625.
I have a 625 model of 1988 with a 5" barrel that I think is great. I thought about getting another 45 ACP revolver and was considering the JM 625. However I am a little concerned about some of the things I have been hearing with regards to these new JM 625's.
I just got back from the range after shooting about 85 rounds of fmj. Obviously not leading, but there was a lot of carbon at the bottom of the forcing cone. After I cleaned everything, I closed the cylinder and looked down the barrel with a small light. I can see the slight edge of the cylinder wall along the bottom of the barrel. I wonder if this is the bigger issue. I'm no expert, but I wouldn't think I should see ANY part of the cylinder edge. If the cylinder isn't lined up properly and there is a gap between the bullet leading edge and the barrel, when it first enters, hot gases would pour in and melt the lead against the barrel at that gap. Yes? No?
hangnoose
Member
DISAPOINTED BUT NOT SURPRIZED
I did want to hear how the JM version compared to the PC. I guess both shop mgr's need a swift kick in the pants. NOT what I would want nor expect for that kind of money. How much does the master pistol service (that should come with EVERY gun) from the PC cost?
I did want to hear how the JM version compared to the PC. I guess both shop mgr's need a swift kick in the pants. NOT what I would want nor expect for that kind of money. How much does the master pistol service (that should come with EVERY gun) from the PC cost?
Bearbait in NM
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Warp,
I just looked down my barrel, and think that may be a really poor way to tell anything. Depending on how my eye was centered, I could see any part of the chamber I wished.
If your smith has a range rod (or you) that might be more of a quantitative way at comparing the centering or gap. I picked one up just to have, and was not expensive. The range rod is the proper way to address cylinder mis-alignment. For myself, had mine come in with a rough FC, I had decided I would address it by polishing or possibly cutting a different angle. But I like smithing, and love to tinker. Depending on what you like to do or fiddle with, sending back sure seems to make sense. If you think the FC is cut off center, polishing might help leading, but not help accuracy.
I did almost a week's worth of research on the web, and had pretty much concluded that PC is more of a features thing, and less of some mastergunsmith turning out a custom piece. I would tend to think that the differences between the PC and JM is features, and either one could have cosmetic or functioning issues. Mine had two easily remedied issues for someone half handy.
I had my PC out again yesterday for some reasonably serious accuracy and load checking with 45 Supers. At 25 on a bench with a red dot, groups in 45acp were ok with plinking Ranier plated 230's. With 255 grain lead SWC's moving along at 1000 fps, the bullets were stacking on top of each other, when I was bearing down. I was also checking velocity, recoil, red dot centering, etc so not a pure accuracy session as I had a lot going on, but my PC looks like it will run right there with my FA in 454. I had to hand fit a Kart barrel to my Colt 1911 to get it anywhere close to what this PC will do out of the box. I am a happy camper, so far. I do wish you luck with yours, and your decision.
Craig
I just looked down my barrel, and think that may be a really poor way to tell anything. Depending on how my eye was centered, I could see any part of the chamber I wished.
If your smith has a range rod (or you) that might be more of a quantitative way at comparing the centering or gap. I picked one up just to have, and was not expensive. The range rod is the proper way to address cylinder mis-alignment. For myself, had mine come in with a rough FC, I had decided I would address it by polishing or possibly cutting a different angle. But I like smithing, and love to tinker. Depending on what you like to do or fiddle with, sending back sure seems to make sense. If you think the FC is cut off center, polishing might help leading, but not help accuracy.
I did almost a week's worth of research on the web, and had pretty much concluded that PC is more of a features thing, and less of some mastergunsmith turning out a custom piece. I would tend to think that the differences between the PC and JM is features, and either one could have cosmetic or functioning issues. Mine had two easily remedied issues for someone half handy.
I had my PC out again yesterday for some reasonably serious accuracy and load checking with 45 Supers. At 25 on a bench with a red dot, groups in 45acp were ok with plinking Ranier plated 230's. With 255 grain lead SWC's moving along at 1000 fps, the bullets were stacking on top of each other, when I was bearing down. I was also checking velocity, recoil, red dot centering, etc so not a pure accuracy session as I had a lot going on, but my PC looks like it will run right there with my FA in 454. I had to hand fit a Kart barrel to my Colt 1911 to get it anywhere close to what this PC will do out of the box. I am a happy camper, so far. I do wish you luck with yours, and your decision.
Craig
Craig,
I think you're right about the alignment issue. I'm getting paranoid about the quality control.
The real issue is the forcing cone. I don't mind paying premium price for a handgun, but I do expect a premium handgun in return. I love this revolver except for the forcing cone and the fouling issue. I contacted S&W this morning and attached photos. They said to send it in for inspection. I am now awaiting a postage paid label and it will be on its way. I just hope, after inspecting it, they don't say it meets the current specs. That would be very disappointing.
I think you're right about the alignment issue. I'm getting paranoid about the quality control.
The real issue is the forcing cone. I don't mind paying premium price for a handgun, but I do expect a premium handgun in return. I love this revolver except for the forcing cone and the fouling issue. I contacted S&W this morning and attached photos. They said to send it in for inspection. I am now awaiting a postage paid label and it will be on its way. I just hope, after inspecting it, they don't say it meets the current specs. That would be very disappointing.Bearbait in NM
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Warp,
I completely understand. I ordered mine new from a seller on GB, and besides a couple of tough sleeping nights wondering about the seller, I had worries about the gun itself. Too much board research and looking at canted barrels and other things that tend to get magnified on boards, going on ;^) It really sucks not being able to have a local place that can get guns that you want, so you can inspect properly.
FWIW, if you were to send a gun back and complain that the barrel was mimimally and slightly canted, or your BC gap was 0.009, you might have problems with S&W. maybe. I would think no way in heck that anyone there would say those machine/chatter marks are in spec.
I think if I were to have a conversation with them or send a letter with the gun, I would mention something about the FC possibly being offcenter, and perhaps concern that shooting a bunch of lead followed by jacketed could possibly stress the FC cone enough to split and be dangerous. Just enough verbal information to convey that you have certain expectations, and have understanding beyond a novice. maybe not needed, as you know what you have discussed so far. I am sure they will make it right.
Craig
I completely understand. I ordered mine new from a seller on GB, and besides a couple of tough sleeping nights wondering about the seller, I had worries about the gun itself. Too much board research and looking at canted barrels and other things that tend to get magnified on boards, going on ;^) It really sucks not being able to have a local place that can get guns that you want, so you can inspect properly.
FWIW, if you were to send a gun back and complain that the barrel was mimimally and slightly canted, or your BC gap was 0.009, you might have problems with S&W. maybe. I would think no way in heck that anyone there would say those machine/chatter marks are in spec.
I think if I were to have a conversation with them or send a letter with the gun, I would mention something about the FC possibly being offcenter, and perhaps concern that shooting a bunch of lead followed by jacketed could possibly stress the FC cone enough to split and be dangerous. Just enough verbal information to convey that you have certain expectations, and have understanding beyond a novice. maybe not needed, as you know what you have discussed so far. I am sure they will make it right.
Craig
