Shield SIGHT INSTALL no joke... Why no taper in the dovetail?

[Whatgorilla]

I had read that it was tough, and I wrote it off...I rarely seem to have problems that others have with magazines that are hard to load initially or slides that are hard to pull back or whatever.

Even the set-screw initially gave me trouble--though I heated it with a flame, then a heat-gun, it stripped my 1/16" hex key and of course the only one at Lowes was in a set for $20. Luckily, it worked fine.

BUT after spending 30 minutes hammering the hell out of the rear sight to get it off and the new one on, the front wouldn't budge. I knocked the hell out of it. I didn't want to slip and put a ding or chip in the surface (note: I never have the right tools for the job--I turned a stapler sideways to be my "block" when I did the Apex Install--hammering the pins out bent up the staples and I later overheard my wife explaining to her friend how odd it was that her stapler had been badly jammed). I was only using a hammer and 3/8" punch.

Anyway, I went at it again today and, after like an hour of work, the Ameriglo i-dot (not PRO) are on and centered--but man that WAS tougher than it should have been.

I wonder if the fact that the dovetail is not tapered MAKES it necessarily tough. Any ideas why they don't taper the dovetail?!
--

NOTE: I'll have the trigger-pull tested tomorrow. I'm HOPING it's down to 3.5-4.25lbs, but I'm betting it's closer to 5lbs. The "click" I kept experiencing turns out to be related to that hinge in the trigger--when I pull in the middle-top of the trigger, it clicks, but if I focus on pulling in the lower or lower-middle, it isn't a bad pull...still a bit gritty for my liking, but the set up is okay and the break is definitely weaker and should improve my long distance accuracy.

 

[dullh]

You would have had it done in 5 minutes had you used the right tool...said tool being a sight pusher tool.

And I too had to heat the screw to get it out. When I installed my night sights I put the screw back in sans Loctite.

 

[targetchief]

If the dovetail was tapered the sight would not be adjustable for windage.

 

[Whatgorilla]

Yeah, someone said a normal sight-pusher tool wouldn't work with the Shield, and so the LGS told me they were going to charge $45 and hammer it out. I figured for that amount of money, I'd hammer it out myself--OR buy a tool if I couldn't.
But most of those pusher tools costs like $80 to $125 I think. Which is too much for someone who will only need it once or twice in his life.

 

[RussC]

I had read that it was tough, and I wrote it off...I rarely seem to have problems that others have with magazines that are hard to load initially or slides that are hard to pull back or whatever.

Even the set-screw initially gave me trouble--though I heated it with a flame, then a heat-gun, it stripped my 1/16" hex key and of course the only one at Lowes was in a set for $20. Luckily, it worked fine.

BUT after spending 30 minutes hammering the hell out of the rear sight to get it off and the new one on, the front wouldn't budge. I knocked the hell out of it. I didn't want to slip and put a ding or chip in the surface (note: I never have the right tools for the job--I turned a stapler sideways to be my "block" when I did the Apex Install--hammering the pins out bent up the staples and I later overheard my wife explaining to her friend how odd it was that her stapler had been badly jammed). I was only using a hammer and 3/8" punch.

Anyway, I went at it again today and, after like an hour of work, the Ameriglo i-dot (not PRO) are on and centered--but man that WAS tougher than it should have been.

I wonder if the fact that the dovetail is not tapered MAKES it necessarily tough. Any ideas why they don't taper the dovetail?!
--

NOTE: I'll have the trigger-pull tested tomorrow. I'm HOPING it's down to 3.5-4.25lbs, but I'm betting it's closer to 5lbs. The "click" I kept experiencing turns out to be related to that hinge in the trigger--when I pull in the middle-top of the trigger, it clicks, but if I focus on pulling in the lower or lower-middle, it isn't a bad pull...still a bit gritty for my liking, but the set up is okay and the break is definitely weaker and should improve my long distance accuracy.

Impact Guns charged me $30 for the 20 minute wait and let me test out my new sights for my Shield on their range for free.

It is beyond me why anyone lacking the knowlege and tools wouldn't pay the expert.

$30 dollars is a bargain when you don't have the right equipment and experience.

Russ

 

[Whatgorilla]

Man, I wish I had an Impact Guns around here. LGS here wants $45 and has no range. The other gunstore is great--and probably would have done it for free, but they're like 45 minutes away.

 

[Rastoff]

...but they're like 45 minutes away.

Where do you live? Where I live, everything is 45 minutes away so, I don't see that as all that big of a deal.

Don't lose any sleep over this though, everyone seems to have trouble with the Shield sights. I've even heard of some who can't move them even with the right tool.

 

[Whatgorilla]

Hahaha. I live in a big city (Jax,FL--actually the largest city in the US by area).
Yeah, I just wanted to testify and let people know that when people say it's tough, they are NOT kidding. IF they can get to a pusher, that would be the way to go.

 

[SPDGG]

fwiw:

If you look at the underside of the factory rear shield sight you will see that it actually has a bump. Simple way to make all min/max variances easy to deal with at the factory during installation. Friend sent me his slide, center rear screw wasn't even tightened down just held in with thread locker compound, and his rear felt like it was one with the slide.

If you have a tight cut, with a oversized sight: measured at the bump, that has been pressed in = you will use a lot of ____ words without a sight tool.

Yes, you can use a brass punch and beat it . . .but, more chances of marring the finish from a slipped or overzealous whack.

The front sight, I've had to cut a few down the center. I fit all my sights to each cut, most sights come too over sized for my liking imho.

 

[Whatgorilla]

"I've had to cut a few down the center."
--hahaha...yep. That front was way worse than the rear. People need to know that this is not an easy do-it-yourself thing. The APEX took me 30 minutes (going along with the video) and I didn't know what I was doing--replacing sights is something I've done 8-10 times, and that took over an hour...though most of it was probably swearing and sweating in disbelief.

 

[Saudade]

Where do you live? Where I live, everything is 45 minutes away so, I don't see that as all that big of a deal.

That's 5 miles on the 405 in rush hour.

 

[jhc37013]

I sent my Shield slide and a set of I-dot Pros to the place below, he did a perfect job with no damage and the sights are perfectly centered. Only $25 and he even gave me a call, my gun was back to me in five days, 2 day priority trip to him, 1 day with him and 2 day trip back home. There is lots of positive feed back on different gun forums, I found him on XDtalk as he does lots of XD sites apparently.

Sight Installation

 

[Rastoff]

...he did a perfect job with no damage and the sights are perfectly centered.

So what? Just because the sights are centered on the slide that doesn't mean the gun will shoot to the center of the target. Only a gun shot from a bench rest can tell where the gun shoots.

Did you do that?

 

[jhc37013]

No I have not and why would I do a bench rest test if it already shoots straight? So what you say, so I guess if you pay to have sights put on it would be ok if the front and rear are off to one side. I would call that a shabby job and sure your right being centered does not guarantee a perfect shot but if I was going to do a bench rest test would you not start with the sight centered?

That seems logical to me but hey I was just trying to be helpful in this thread about sight install on a shield.

 

[Whatgorilla]

I think he came off a bit abrasive with the "so what?", but what he was trying to say is that you should test it to make sure it shoots straight (and doesn't need any slight adjustments)...you didn't say whether you did this or not.
I'd think if they measured it with calipers, as most do, then you should be good to go out to 10Y no matter what (s it seems you are--if they shoot straight).
However, some people don't realize that if they bench their gun they'll find out it groups off at 25Y (or 50Y). So it might need a tiny bit of tweaking. Now that I have sights on it, I'm going to shoot mine benched to see how it does (the old sights were about 3.5-4" high) and then do minor tweaking if necessary.

 

[agksimon]

If the dovetail was tapered the sight would not be adjustable for windage.

They are slightly tapered, being wider on the right side than the left. Check it with a set of calipers. That's why you drive them out from left to right and install them right to left. Every M&P I've done is tapered.

 

[Whatgorilla]

****. I installed them left to right because i read there was no dovetail. That might explain a lot. (I got it from a youtube video where he went left to right both times.)

 

[epj]

You might find some useful information here. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/363455-shield-sight-change-picture-heavy.html
This maybe should be a sticky?

 

[Rastoff]

I guess I came off a little too harsh. Sorry for that.

No I have not and why would I do a bench rest test if it already shoots straight?

You wouldn't, but was this before or after the new sights were installed?

So what you say, so I guess if you pay to have sights put on it would be ok if the front and rear are off to one side.

No, I wouldn't care as long as the gun shoots to Point of Aim(POA). Where the sights sit in relation to the slide is not necessarily related to where the bullet will go.

...would you not start with the sight centered?

If I were installing the sights, I would put the new sights exactly where the old sights were. That is rarely exactly in the center.


There are two aspects to shooting any gun accurately; where the gun shoots and where the shooter shoots. If real accuracy is desired, the gun must be checked. In order to do that, the human element must be removed as much as possible. This is why a bench rest is used. It helps to remove any movement the shooter might make while trying to shoot.

The second aspect is how the shooter himself shoots. Believe it or not, people can be remarkably consistent when they move. I've watched two guys both shoot 1" groups from the same gun, but not in the same spot on the target. Why? Because each moves a little bit differently as they shoot. This is why, especially with a handgun, each person must sight in their own gun.

The Shield is not a precision gun. It was designed and is intended for self-defense. As such, 1" groups, at any distance, are not necessary. So, if you're hitting the intended target, with two controlled shots, within a hand span of each other, that's good enough.

Putting the sights in the middle of the slide is great, but does not necessarily guarantee the best accuracy.

 

[agksimon]

You might find some useful information here. http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-m-p-pistols/363455-shield-sight-change-picture-heavy.html
This maybe should be a sticky?

I have changed an awful lot of sight sets, have always used a punch and never once marred the old ones or the new ones. Electrical tape over both parts with a dab of oil between them will do the job, as long as you have a good bite on the sight edge with a properly shaped punch and hit square with the sight. I use tape and a marker to mark the center of the factory sights, before removal. I start by tapping lightly and only hit hard enough to move them. Works every time.
Ever since I saw the post and photos of the guy that wrecked his Shield slide when a gunsmith used a pusher, it re-affirmed my use of the punch and padded vise. Granted, he may have placed the slide in the slot wrong, but the padded vise holds more of the slide than the pusher does.