Collecting: The 12 most influential S&W firearms

[Rex Goliath]

#8 The Chief's Special? isn't that the latter issue of the I-frame Terrier, which was in 38 S&W? Ivan

I do not know, but worth looking into Ivan. From my perspective, #12... not so much the M60 gun itself, but the stainless steel... that made gunmetal history.


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[Rex Goliath]

I completely disagree with number 11; it was not important or influential, it was copying european DA 9s. It just really strikes me as the oddball on the list.

It is my understanding that Europe had its share of revolvers but discarded the revolver platform in favor of semi-autos. America still had a big piece of territory to tame. What is troubling about the article is the handgun timeline of innovation abruptly stops.


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[MNHardy]

Model 3 44 AMERICAN

I recently was able to purchase a 1872 S&W documented Model 3 in 44 AMERICAN with a four digit sn. are there any other ares in this forum that discusss this classic pistol. I am new to the forum thing, hope this is a good place to start. MNHardy

 

[JP@AK]

I recently was able to purchase a 1872 S&W documented Model 3 in 44 AMERICAN with a four digit sn. are there any other ares in this forum that discusss this classic pistol. I am new to the forum thing, hope this is a good place to start. MNHardy

Yes. The S&W Antiques category.

 

[JP@AK]

#8 The Chief's Special? isn't that the latter issue of the I-frame Terrier, which was in 38 S&W? Ivan

In one sense, yes, but technically, no.
The CS was the S&W response to the growing popularity of Colt's Detective Special with its .38 Special chambering. The Terrier was all S&W had to compete with it in that niche and it was chambered for the .38 S&W cartridge which was thought to be an underpowered round for LE purposes. The CS is significant because it introduced the J frame - a frame of roughly I frame proportions, but with a larger frame window to accommodate the necessary longer cylinder. Eventually, all I frame models were moved to the newer frame dimensions, a shift that was not completed until the early 1960s. So the CS needs to be on the list as the introductory model for the abidingly popular J frame.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

 

[Art Doc]

I made my list before looking at the thread. I included only revolvers.

1. Number 1 (started it all)
2. Model of 1899 (1st hand ejector) Or was it the 1896? Whichever.
3. Military & Police 38 (sets the standard)
4. Triple Lock (1st N frame large caliber)
5. 38/44 Heavy Duty (response to police calls for more powerful revolver)
6. The 357 Magnum (no need to explain)
7. Victory Model (S&W goes to war in a big way)
8. Chief's Special (the quintessential police and civilian carry revolver)
9. The 4" Model 15 (the quintessential police service revolver)
10. The Combat Magnum (357 power in a lighter package)
11. The 44 Magnum (you know, the world's most powerful handgun)
12. The Model 60 (1st stainless revolver)

Edit: I see I was in agreement with 8 of the guns on the first list. A case could be made for the #3 44 Russian. As could the 22 Outdoorsman.

As for the significance of the M39, it was the first American made 9mm DA auto and was the first DA auto (and really, the first semi auto pistol of all types) to be widely accepted for police use in this country. Very significant IMO but I am sticking with revolvers on my list.

 

[wordsmith]

Have agressively collected most all on this list, in as many variations as I could find along the way ----- and owned / bought / sold more than I can begin to count ----

Still have great examples of #'s 1 thru 5, 7 and 11.

S&W has been bery-bery good to me.....

David

Have any of the Forum members collected any or all of the following S&W firearms manufactured over the past 150 years?
1. Model 1 (1857)
2. Model 3 American (1870)
3. .38 & .32 Double-Action (1880)
4. .38 Hand Ejector (1899)
5. .44 Hand Ejector First Model (1908)
6. .22/32 Target Model (1911)
7. .357 Magnum (1935)
8. .38 Chiefs Special (1950)
9. .357 Combat Magnum (1955)
10. .44 Magnum (1956)
11. Double Action 9mm Pistol (1956)
12. Model 60 Chiefs Special Stainless (1965)
Source Attribution - Smith & Wesson's 12 Most Important Guns


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[Rex Goliath]

I recently was able to purchase a 1872 S&W documented Model 3 in 44 AMERICAN with a four digit sn. are there any other ares in this forum that discusss this classic pistol. I am new to the forum thing, hope this is a good place to start. MNHardy

We are holding our breath for a picture


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[JP@AK]

SP
Overall, I like your list (I also like the OP's list, actually a bit better).
I have a couple questions and comments for you:

2. Model of 1899 (1st hand ejector) Or was it the 1896?
Yes, it would be the 1896 that was the first HE, built on the proto-I frame. Beat the K frame version by approximately three years.

3. Military & Police 38 (sets the standard)
By this do you mean the 1905 improved version of the 1899? The first of the 5 screw guns? Otherwise, I'm failing to see the distinction between #2 and #3.

7. Victory Model (S&W goes to war in a big way)
Since this is just a variant of the M&P, I guess you are including it because of the wartime effort. Not sure I fully agree, but I certainly acknowledge the point - which might carry the day in terms of significance.

9. The 4" Model 15 (the quintessential police service revolver)
I'm going to assume here that you really mean the Combat Masterpiece, starting in c. 1950, and not actually the Model 15. Correct?

As for the significance of the M39, it was the first American made 9mm DA auto and was the first DA auto (and really, the first semi auto pistol of all types) to be widely accepted for police use in this country.

Well, I generally agree with the tone of this - I think the Model 39 and its early no-model brother is a highly significant gun in S&W history and should not be left out of a list that is not exclusively focused on revolvers.

 

[Rex Goliath]

Have agressively collected most all on this list, in as many variations as I could find along the way ----- and owned / bought / sold more than I can begin to count ----
Still have great examples of #'s 1 thru 5, 7 and 11.
S&W has been bery-bery good to me.....
David

That's nice. Ratio of 7:12. Well done wordsmith! A pic of ditrina's #7 is in this thread should you wish to enter yours in a beauty contest


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[H Richard]

I don't necessarily agree with the list, but I have all but the Model 3 American on your list, and all but the triple Lock and Heavy Duty from Saxon's list. (But I do have a 38/44 Outdoorsman) The Heavy duty is the top of my want list, but finding one in a decent condition (that I can afford) isn't easy.

 

[Rex Goliath]

I don't necessarily agree with the list, but I have all but the Model 3 American on your list, and all but the triple Lock and Heavy Duty from Saxon's list. (But I do have a 38/44 Outdoorsman) The Heavy duty is the top of my want list, but finding one in a decent condition (that I can afford) isn't easy.

Fair enough, no argument from me with Outdoorsman; however, the list is not mine. It is from Dick Metcalf's Jan 2011 article linked as source attribution in the OP.


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[shawn mccarver]

#8 The Chief's Special? isn't that the latter issue of the I-frame Terrier, which was in 38 S&W? Ivan

I believe the point of including the stainless Chiefs Special (the list specifies the Model 60) is because of the huge effect it had on subsequent handgun production at S&W and other manufacturers, it being the first production handgun offered in stainless steel.

 

[JP@AK]

I believe the point of including the stainless Chiefs Special (the list specifies the Model 60) is because of the huge effect it had on subsequent handgun production at S&W and other manufacturers, it being the first production handgun offered in stainless steel.

Well, sure, Shawn. That is true concerning the Model 60 and I completely agree it ought to be on the list for that reason. But there are two CS revolvers on the list. Number 8 gives us the original 1950 CS (to which my comments referred) as well as Number 12, which adds the stainless version.

 

[Rex Goliath]

This has become a lively discourse which welcomes continued input, for all the reasons mentioned before.
Now, I'll hijack my own thread by adding that the OP source article included a #13. A Baker's Dozen; in the tradition of a "baker's dozen" stems from an ancient practice of tossing a thirteenth item into a box of pastry to ensure the customer gets a full 12 in case of a hurried miscount.

As Metcalf said, it was not a hurried this list. (He considered it for nearly a year–since S&W's Ken Jorgensen casually posed the question of what Metcalf might think were S&W's all-time greatest firearms). In Metcalf's article he exercised his option to include the thirteenth breadstick: the Model 360 AirLite Sc .357 Magnum.

Carry on...

 

[mikepriwer]

While all the 12 guns are important in one way or another, the one that is far and away
the most important is your number 4, the Model of 1899, and all of its direct successors.

This is the gun that made the company, and allowed it to survive and prosper. There
were 1,140,000 of these guns made from 1899 to the beginning of WW2, and then
another 811,000 made during WW2. No other S&W gun comes even close to this
production. During this same time period, there were only about 60,000 or so N-frames
made, in all calibers, including .357 magnums. Furthermore, the K-frame was the
development platform for the K-22's, the K-32's, and even the post-WW2 Model 19's .
In fact, all of the K-frames are caliber variations of the same gun.

Following WW2, at least several million K-frame have been made. And, the current
version of the Model of 1899 is the longest continuous-production gun in the history
of the company. No other model comes even close.

Mike Priwer

 

[wordsmith]

Don't have even a single photo of the one RM I've kept, among the hundreds that have rolled thru my privileged little hands...since 1983. It's Reg. # 2199, one of the original nickel guns ---- 5" bbl. with magna grips, HBH, Baughman ramp and the box, tube and certificate. Many thanks to a fellow SWCA member, I was able to buy this gun 10 years ago.

Twice refinished - the 2nd time flawlessly with perfectly executed "new" roll-markings - it's the most special one to me out of them all because it shipped to Deputy S. N. Nabors at the Jefferson County Sheriff's Office, Courthouse - Birmingham, Alabama on April 13, 1937. Some 36 years later, I was sworn in as a newly-hired deputy in that same front office (very dark-brown hair, and cute too..). In my 15 years there, I worked a car together several years with one Jim Nabors, the original owner's nephew. I never knew about this gun at that time, only that he had a deceased uncle who had been deputy long before us. Jim hired on in '68, after returning from service as a Marine sniper in Vietnam. He retired after 40 years, having worn Badge # 2 for quite a while, in 2008. Thank you for your service, Jim, at home and abroad --

Our hair is about white, and we still talk...and we are sure that we're still cute !!

Will get around to making a few pics of this gun one day soon.
David

That's nice. Ratio of 7:12. Well done wordsmith! A pic of ditrina's #7 is in this thread should you wish to enter yours in a beauty contest

 

[brokendowncop]

The original post by Rex frames the discussion with it's title. Collecting: The 12 most influential S&W firearms . I am familiar with each of the models but have no expertise regarding their inclusion or exclusion from the list. The discussion regarding #11 is a different story. In a sub category of Collecting: The 12 most influential S&W firearms to Law Enforcement there is no doubt #11 should top the list. I first hit the street in 1968 with a major core city police department. This was a period when the .357 mag had just been approved for use. Hundreds of our guys still carried .38 spl from both S&W and Colt. For those of us who chose a .357 we could load with the magnums but all of our spare ammo had to be .38 spl. In a fire fight everyone could use that ammo. Through that period, 1968-1972, we were severely out gunned and there was pressure to even the odds. 1911's, Hi-Powers etc. There were enough holes in the floors of police vehicles and clearing barrels that the 1911 was excluded from consideration. Here comes the Model 39. Wow! We can easily trace the evolution from that point to the present. The 39 was a game changer. It's acceptance really shifted the focus of LE in the way different firearms were evaluated. As this was taking place I was carrying a Model 27. Ultimately our department switched to the Model 59 over the 39 for the additional capacity and fire power. I still have my 59 and consider it as an iconic piece. Should the Model 39 be on this list? Without a doubt even if it has to be followed by an asterisk "To Law Enforcement"

Just one Fella's opinion.

 

[Art Doc]

Was the 96 in 38 Special? If not I go with the 99. That's the caliber it needs to be significant IMO.

I was thinking of the last incarnation of the pre-war M&P. The one that went essentially unchanged for decades.

I do think the VM is a separate model from the commercial M&P. Finish, stocks, serial numbers, purpose all different. But as we know, get 3 guys talking about S&W terminology and definitions and you get 3 different opinions.

CM/M15 interchangeable for this discussion.

Yes, the original question said "firearms," but this was posted in revolvers so I stuck with them. Most on my list qualify for the pre-1962 section.

 

[Modified]

Seems to me that everything I am seeing here is leaving out what I would consider to be a gun that is at least as influential, if not more influential, then any S&W ever made;


Edit: click the image to go to the auction that this gun is from.

This gun was at the beginning of both S&W and Winchester, and one could argue that S&W and Winchester wouldn't exist in the way they have throughout the years without it.

As important as every other gun on any of these lists might be, in my mind, number 1 belongs to that lever action S&W right there.